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Looks like we are in, with our UN buddies, no fly zone, and more...

Breaking news, as I have kind of understood it, on the tube, a few minutes ago, while headed to bed..

Discuss....

Wedgebuster wrote:Looks like we are in, with our UN buddies, no fly zone, and more...

Breaking news, as I have kind of understood it, on the tube, a few minutes ago, while headed to bed..

Discuss....

Better yet, an early link!!

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-E ... -zone-vote

Wedgebuster wrote:

Wedgebuster wrote:Looks like we are in, with our UN buddies, no fly zone, and more...

Breaking news, as I have kind of understood it, on the tube, a few minutes ago, while headed to bed..

Discuss....

Better yet, an early link!!

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-E ... -zone-vote

The UN immediately followed with a, "that 'no fly zone' shit don't fly" zone over Bahrain and Saudi Arabia.

Well, likely too little too late though. He doesn't really need the aerial bombardment anymore since the rebel holdings are few and far between now, and it's not like his forces are walking around wearing "I work for Qadaffi" berets so that they'll be easy to hit from the air. Maybe if they decided on this a week ago it could've done some good. Unfortunately, it looks like it will be one of those, "gee, we really, really tried, but the bad man was just too strong - oh, and we're buying a lot of his oil again" things.

This is a UN situation anyway...

GannonFan wrote:Well, likely too little too late though. He doesn't really need the aerial bombardment anymore since the rebel holdings are few and far between now, and it's not like his forces are walking around wearing "I work for Qadaffi" berets so that they'll be easy to hit from the air. Maybe if they decided on this a week ago it could've done some good. Unfortunately, it looks like it will be one of those, "gee, we really, really tried, but the bad man was just too strong - oh, and we're buying a lot of his oil again" things.

This. No point in doing anything now. This was/is just another lose-lose situation in the ME for USA. We don't go in, Arabs bitch about America standing by and doing nothing about this dictator. We go in, Arabs bitch about us interfering in their affairs.

SDHornet wrote:

GannonFan wrote:Well, likely too little too late though. He doesn't really need the aerial bombardment anymore since the rebel holdings are few and far between now, and it's not like his forces are walking around wearing "I work for Qadaffi" berets so that they'll be easy to hit from the air. Maybe if they decided on this a week ago it could've done some good. Unfortunately, it looks like it will be one of those, "gee, we really, really tried, but the bad man was just too strong - oh, and we're buying a lot of his oil again" things.

This. No point in doing anything now. This was/is just another lose-lose situation in the ME for USA. We don't go in, Arabs bitch about America standing by and doing nothing about this dictator. We go in, Arabs bitch about us interfering in their affairs.

which is why i think this is the only way to make it work. this isn't being initiated by the US... it's being led by the arab world and the europeans... as it should be. i'm starting to think this is as good a play as any in this situation - we aren't imposing our will on the situation - we're in the background on this one - letting others take the initiative. our national interests are in a democratic libya, however - acting in any way to secure such a thing would (much like in egypt) undermine any democratic regime to emerge...

it's a delicate balance - and despite a lot of braying from neo-cons desiring a bumper sticker policy... it's realpolitik.

What a joke.

What UN-affiliated military power is capable of enforcing a no-fly zone in Libya?

Here's a hint: there's only one.

All others will provide token assistance, like allowing us to tie up a ship or two in this port or that port. Maybe refuel a destroyer or two in Italy. Pakistan will provide 6 trucks.

CID1990 wrote:What a joke.

What UN-affiliated military power is capable of enforcing a no-fly zone in Libya?

Here's a hint: there's only one.

All others will provide token assistance, like allowing us to tie up a ship or two in this port or that port. Maybe refuel a destroyer or two in Italy. Pakistan will provide 6 trucks.

you realize the french, british and italians have air forces, don't you?

the british have 1,100 planes
the french have around 900
the italians have 500
the egyptians have 884 (including 300 helicopters)

CID1990 wrote:
What UN-affiliated military power is capable of enforcing a no-fly zone in Libya?

Maybe the same countries that helped us enforce a no-fly zone over Iraq for 10+ years?

Saudi Arabia has some nice gear.

CID1990 wrote:What a joke.

What UN-affiliated military power is capable of enforcing a no-fly zone in Libya?

Here's a hint: there's only one.

All others will provide token assistance, like allowing us to tie up a ship or two in this port or that port. Maybe refuel a destroyer or two in Italy. Pakistan will provide 6 trucks.

I'm with ya - I think by "UN involvement" it means "98% US enforcement".

houndawg wrote:Saudi Arabia has some nice gear.

Maybe they should try dusting it off and using it.

They've also authorized airstrikes against ground forces.

kalm wrote:They've also authorized airstrikes against ground forces.

Which is fine as long as ground forces are easily identifiable. Heck, the reason we started bombing sites in Serbia was that we couldn't properly identify forces in Kosovo. It's not like each sides picks a color and then wears that color to make identification easier.

I agree that this is a no win situation for the USA. Let the UN impose their will without us for a change. It is too little, too late and not something we should have been involved in to begin with. I'm not sure what Obama thought was going to happen when he moved a ship and 400 marines off their coast in the first place. Either go in to win, which we can't or stay out, which we should.

LeadBolt wrote:I agree that this is a no win situation for the USA. Let the UN impose their will without us for a change. It is too little, too late and not something we should have been involved in to begin with. I'm not sure what Obama thought was going to happen when he moved a ship and 400 marines off their coast in the first place. Either go in to win, which we can't or stay out, which we should.

Ghaddafi has ordered a halt to military operations.

At the risk of offending Cluck I'll withhold judgement on this until the dust settles.

Check?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/world/ ... 6023759780

After initially declaring their entire air space closed,


Libya has denied shutting down its air space while European governments decided to ban all civilian flights to the country after the UN approved air strikes, Europe's air traffic agency said.

GannonFan wrote:

kalm wrote:They've also authorized airstrikes against ground forces.

Which is fine as long as ground forces are easily identifiable. Heck, the reason we started bombing sites in Serbia was that we couldn't properly identify forces in Kosovo. It's not like each sides picks a color and then wears that color to make identification easier.

Like the Chinese embassy...

Skjellyfetti wrote:

CID1990 wrote:
What UN-affiliated military power is capable of enforcing a no-fly zone in Libya?

Maybe the same countries that helped us enforce a no-fly zone over Iraq for 10+ years?

Singular. Britain.

kalm wrote:

LeadBolt wrote:I agree that this is a no win situation for the USA. Let the UN impose their will without us for a change. It is too little, too late and not something we should have been involved in to begin with. I'm not sure what Obama thought was going to happen when he moved a ship and 400 marines off their coast in the first place. Either go in to win, which we can't or stay out, which we should.

Ghaddafi has ordered a halt to military operations.

At the risk of offending Cluck I'll withhold judgement on this until the dust settles.

Pretty shrewd move by Q. It kind of pulls the rug from under the UN. He assumes that the UN won't have the stamina or will to enforce a NFZ for very long if the Libyan army isn't conducting offensive operations. He's probably right.

CitadelGrad wrote:

kalm wrote:
Ghaddafi has ordered a halt to military operations.

At the risk of offending Cluck I'll withhold judgement on this until the dust settles.

Pretty shrewd move by Q. It kind of pulls the rug from under the UN. He assumes that the UN won't have the stamina or will to enforce a NFZ for very long if the Libyan army isn't conducting offensive operations. He's probably right.

True, but while the UN has been sitting on its hands for the past several weeks he's generated a lot of compliance from the rebels. It's tough to begin bombing radar sites and doing flyovers when he's instituted a ceasefire.

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:you realize the french, british and italians have air forces, don't you?

the french have around 900
the italians have 500

They don't count! They're all either stuck in reverse or don't work!

CitadelGrad wrote:

kalm wrote:
Ghaddafi has ordered a halt to military operations.

At the risk of offending Cluck I'll withhold judgement on this until the dust settles.

Pretty shrewd move by Q. It kind of pulls the rug from under the UN. He assumes that the UN won't have the stamina or will to enforce a NFZ for very long if the Libyan army isn't conducting offensive operations. He's probably right.

Good point.