Federal agents seize nearly 2 tons of Ron Paul coins:

[Skjellyfetti]

The former head of an Evansville-based company that tried to introduce a currency that competed with the U.S. dollar has been found guilty of federal charges in North Carolina.

Bernard von NotHaus, 67, was convicted Friday by a federal jury of making, possessing and selling his own coins, said Anne M. Tompkins, U.S. attorney for the Western District of North Carolina.

After an eight-day trial and less than two hours of deliberation, von NotHaus, the founder and "monetary architect" of a currency known as the Liberty Dollar, was found guilty of making coins resembling and similar to United States coins; of issuing, passing, selling and possessing Liberty Dollar coins; of issuing and passing Liberty Dollar coins intended for use as current money; and of conspiracy against the United States.

Von NotHaus, who remains free on bond, faces a sentence of up to 15 years' imprisonment and a fine of not more than $250,000 on the count related to distributing the coins for use as money and a sentence of five years and fines of $250,000 on counts related to making the coins and the conspiracy charge.

The guilty verdict concluded an investigation that began in 2005 and involved the minting of Liberty Dollar coins with a current value of about $7 million.

In November 2007 federal investigators raided Liberty Dollar's headquarters at 225 N. Stockwell Road, seizing documents and precious metals.

Von NotHaus developed the liberty dollar in 1998 as an "inflation-proof" alternative currency to the U.S. dollar, which he claimed has devalued since the Federal Reserve was established in 1913.

The silver medallions were produced by a private mint in Idaho on behalf of Evansville-based Liberty Services, which also issued paper notes the group said were backed by silver reserves.

During the raid, about a dozen agents seized nearly two tons of coins that featured the image of Ron Paul, a Texas congressman. They also took about 500 pounds of silver and 40 to 50 ounces of gold, as was paper currency and other metals.

The 2007 raid was a development in a dispute between von NotHaus and the U.S. government. In a federal suit filed in March 2007 in U.S. District Court in Evansville, von NotHaus sought a permanent injunction against the federal government to force it to stop referring to the Liberty Dollar as an illegal currency and to require the removal of a warning from the U.S. Mint's website stating that use of the Liberty Dollar violates federal law.

The suit was triggered by a public warning issued by the U.S. Mint in September 2006. The warning informed Liberty Dollar users that federal prosecutors had determined circulation of the medallions is a federal crime.

According to federal prosecutors, Liberty coins were marked with the dollar sign; the words "dollar," "USA," "Liberty," "Trust in God" (instead of "In God We Trust"); and other features associated with legitimate U.S. coins.

Prosecutors claimed von Not-Haus and Liberty Services had since 1998 been issuing, disseminating and placing into circulation the Liberty Dollar in all its forms throughout the United States and Puerto Rico. The goal was to compete with United States currency.

The United States is seeking the forfeiture of about 16,000 pounds of Liberty Dollar coins and precious metals, valued at nearly $7 million. The forfeiture trial, which began Friday before U.S. District Court Judge Richard Voorhees, will resume April 4 in the federal court in Statesville, N.C.

Voorhees has not yet set a date for von NotHaus' sentencing.

http://www.courierpress.com/news/2011/m ... nd-guilty/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[CitadelGrad]

One of the brilliant government attorneys said this guy committed an act of terrorism by issuing these coins. Fuck the government.

[∞∞∞]

I thought it was legal for communities to print their own currency and use it instead of the Dollar? I have a few Liberty Dollars...pretty cool coins if you ask me. Nothing really special, but neat to have nontheless.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

I thought it was legal for communities to print their own currency and use it instead of the Dollar? I have a few Liberty Dollars...pretty cool coins if you ask me. Nothing really special, but neat to have nontheless.

noo... federal exclusivity in printing money is laid out in the constitution.

[dbackjon]

I thought it was legal for communities to print their own currency and use it instead of the Dollar? I have a few Liberty Dollars...pretty cool coins if you ask me. Nothing really special, but neat to have nontheless.

noo... federal exclusivity in printing money is laid out in the constitution.

Article 1, Section 8

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

Funny that these Constitutionalists don't have a clue about the constitution

[citdog]

I thought it was legal for communities to print their own currency and use it instead of the Dollar? I have a few Liberty Dollars...pretty cool coins if you ask me. Nothing really special, but neat to have nontheless.

noo... federal exclusivity in printing money is laid out in the constitution.

your neverending support for things that ARE NOT in the 'constitution of the late united states' is known to all. glad to see that you know some of the things that actually ARE. the congress has the power to coin money and put it out for circulation. i wonder why they don't? they farm it out to the federal reserve and the money comes out of thin air and backed by nothing.....and owing interest to the federal reserve.......

[Skjellyfetti]

citdog's just pissed all his money is in South Carolina dollars and is worthless.

[Grizalltheway]

citdog's just pissed all his money is in South Carolina dollars and is worthless.

He's right on the Fed part, at least. Conk or Donk, one has to be astounded at the racket they have going.

[CID1990]

noo... federal exclusivity in printing money is laid out in the constitution.

Article 1, Section 8

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

Funny that these Constitutionalists don't have a clue about the constitution

I'm really not concerned either way, I don't think that this was something to get riled up about, but I also think it was kind of goofy in a Michigan Militia kind of way.

That said, I don't see where the Constitution prohibits the coining of currency. The only proscription I see in the article above is that the government is charged with the prosecution of those who produce counterfeit currency. The first one simply gives the government the responsibility of coining money and securities.

Perhaps the sticking point here would be if the minter was intending for the coins to be valued alongside the dollar, thus creating a kinda sorta counterfeiting issue.

On a related note, since we have the Constitutional scholars up and about, how about someone point me to the clause that refers to abortion, hate crimes (there actually a prohibition to those in there), or how corporations are people?

[catamount man]

noo... federal exclusivity in printing money is laid out in the constitution.

your neverending support for things that ARE NOT in the 'constitution of the late united states' is known to all. glad to see that you know some of the things that actually ARE. the congress has the power to coin money and put it out for circulation. i wonder why they don't? they farm it out to the federal reserve and the money comes out of thin air and backed by nothing.....and owing interest to the federal reserve.......

forget it bro. his head is eternally stuck in the sand. these big government backers/lovers will only wake up when it's too late.

[YoUDeeMan]

I thought it was legal for communities to print their own currency and use it instead of the Dollar? I have a few Liberty Dollars...pretty cool coins if you ask me. Nothing really special, but neat to have nontheless.

noo... federal exclusivity in printing money is laid out in the constitution.

People printing their own money to compete with the dollar?

Gosh, the Feds better get busy. Time to arrest whole communities across this nation. Who knows, maybe some of these towns will join with the grand old South and start another secession movement.

http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/co ... 097103.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Edit: interestingly enough, they are talking about introducing a debit card...technology our Constitution framers couldn't predict.

[kalm]

noo... federal exclusivity in printing money is laid out in the constitution.

Article 1, Section 8

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

Funny that these Constitutionalists don't have a clue about the constitution

And think we should privatize the postal service, or as 1990 points out, consider a corporation a person.

[89Hen]

[kalm]

FTW.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

noo... federal exclusivity in printing money is laid out in the constitution.

People printing their own money to compete with the dollar?

Gosh, the Feds better get busy. Time to arrest whole communities across this nation. Who knows, maybe some of these towns will join with the grand old South and start another secession movement.

http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/co ... 097103.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Edit: interestingly enough, they are talking about introducing a debit card...technology our Constitution framers couldn't predict.

scrip isn't illegal - it's value is pegged to the dollar (it's the same reason "disney dollars" and "geoffery money" at toys r us isn't illegal - it's not a currency - it's a scrip)

[Ivytalk]

Ron Paul coins, huh? That's one way of getting back at the Federal Reserve...

[∞∞∞]

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

Funny that these Constitutionalists don't have a clue about the constitution

Ok wait, where does it say in the Constitution that people can't create their own money? The Constitution tells the government to print money (the dollar) and to provide punishment to those who counterfeit the coin of the United States (the dollar). It says nothing about punishing those who want to create and use their own special currency, and the Liberty Dollar is not a counterfeit of federal money.

[Skjellyfetti]

Ok wait, where does it say in the Constitution that people can't create their own money? The Constitution tells the government to print money (the dollar) and to provide punishment to those who counterfeit the coin of the United States (the dollar). It says nothing about punishing those who want to create and use their own special currency, and the Liberty Dollar is not a counterfeit of federal money.

hint: the guy in the OP article was found guilty by a court of law for creating and distributing a counterfeit currency.

[AshevilleApp]

Ok wait, where does it say in the Constitution that people can't create their own money? The Constitution tells the government to print money (the dollar) and to provide punishment to those who counterfeit the coin of the United States (the dollar). It says nothing about punishing those who want to create and use their own special currency, and the Liberty Dollar is not a counterfeit of federal money.

hint: the guy in the OP article was found guilty by a court of law for creating and distributing a counterfeit currency.

From the article the Cluck U posted:

"Organizations that produce local currencies are prohibited by U.S. law from producing coins or printing bills that resemble federal dollars."

I guess this was the case.

[∞∞∞]

Ok wait, where does it say in the Constitution that people can't create their own money? The Constitution tells the government to print money (the dollar) and to provide punishment to those who counterfeit the coin of the United States (the dollar). It says nothing about punishing those who want to create and use their own special currency, and the Liberty Dollar is not a counterfeit of federal money.

hint: the guy in the OP article was found guilty by a court of law for creating and distributing a counterfeit currency.

Quickly before I head to class, what I read "was found guilty of making coins resembling and similar to United States coins; of issuing, passing, selling and possessing Liberty Dollar coins; of issuing and passing Liberty Dollar coins intended for use as current money; and of conspiracy against the United States."

Look, I'm not a lawyer and this is just my message board opinion, but you're retarded if you mistake the Liberty Dollar for United States money. I don't have any of the bills, but if I recall they were very colorful. The coins say "Liberty Dollar" on them and don't really look like United States coins. Their old website (now taken down) used to clearly tell people that the coin was not in any way associated with the US Mint in huge red letters so people wouldn't mistake it for federal money. And if he wants to sell the coins to people who clearly knew it was not federal money, I'm not seeing the issue there as well. If a community wants to not use the dollar and knowingly use the Liberty Dollar instead, it's their prerogative. I need to go now but I'll come back to this later today. This is one of the more interesting topics on the Political Board (all the others kinda seem to blend together).

[TwinTownBisonFan]

hint: the guy in the OP article was found guilty by a court of law for creating and distributing a counterfeit currency.

Quickly before I head to class, what I read "was found guilty of making coins resembling and similar to United States coins; of issuing, passing, selling and possessing Liberty Dollar coins; of issuing and passing Liberty Dollar coins intended for use as current money; and of conspiracy against the United States."

Look, I'm not a lawyer and this is just my message board opinion, but you're retarded if you mistake the Liberty Dollar for United States money. I don't have any of the bills, but if I recall they were very colorful. The coins say "Liberty Dollar" on them and don't really look like United States coins. Their old website (now taken down) used to clearly tell people that the coin was not in any way associated with the US Mint in huge red letters so people wouldn't mistake it for federal money. And if he wants to sell the coins to people who clearly knew it was not federal money, I'm not seeing the issue there as well. If a community wants to not use the dollar and knowingly use the Liberty Dollar instead, it's their prerogative. I need to go now but I'll come back to this later today. This is one of the more interesting topics on the Political Board (all the others kinda seem to blend together).

it also comes down to the intent of the producer. again - if they had produced it as a scrip currency, that would be different - these people intended the coins as a replacement for US currency... that's completely against the law.

[CID1990]

Hey, Constitutional scholars, I axed a question!

[native]

Quickly before I head to class, what I read "was found guilty of making coins resembling and similar to United States coins; of issuing, passing, selling and possessing Liberty Dollar coins; of issuing and passing Liberty Dollar coins intended for use as current money; and of conspiracy against the United States."

Look, I'm not a lawyer and this is just my message board opinion, but you're retarded if you mistake the Liberty Dollar for United States money. I don't have any of the bills, but if I recall they were very colorful. The coins say "Liberty Dollar" on them and don't really look like United States coins. Their old website (now taken down) used to clearly tell people that the coin was not in any way associated with the US Mint in huge red letters so people wouldn't mistake it for federal money. And if he wants to sell the coins to people who clearly knew it was not federal money, I'm not seeing the issue there as well. If a community wants to not use the dollar and knowingly use the Liberty Dollar instead, it's their prerogative. I need to go now but I'll come back to this later today. This is one of the more interesting topics on the Political Board (all the others kinda seem to blend together).

it also comes down to the intent of the producer. again - if they had produced it as a scrip currency, that would be different - these people intended the coins as a replacement for US currency... that's completely against the law.

...and completely harmless compared to the sedition preached by Obama's SIEU cronies.

[kalm]

it also comes down to the intent of the producer. again - if they had produced it as a scrip currency, that would be different - these people intended the coins as a replacement for US currency... that's completely against the law.

...and completely harmless compared to the sedition preached by Obama's SIEU cronies.

So Obama is replacing the Fed with the SIEU? Why did he stay silent on Wisconsisn?

[89Hen]

Look, I'm not a lawyer and this is just my message board opinion, but you're retarded if you mistake the Liberty Dollar for United States money. I don't have any of the bills, but if I recall they were very colorful. The coins say "Liberty Dollar" on them and don't really look like United States coins.

I haven't seen them, but with all the new coins and bills that have been made over the last several years, you may not be that retarded to mistake them. I recently got one of the old $5 bills and thought it was fake because I was so used to the new ones. It's amazing how fast they've gotten those things out of circulation.