AZ Ballot initiative would seek to ban photo radar

[dbackjon]

PHOENIX -- Arizona voters may get a chance to do what lawmakers have not: outlaw photo radar and similar systems to catch speeders.

A new initiative drive launched by two business owners would bar the state or local governments from issuing citations based on evidence obtained from photo enforcement cameras like the ones already operated by many cities and the system being deployed statewide by the Department of Public Safety. The proposal contains an exception for motorists clocked at traveling more than 20 miles per hour over the posted speed limit.

"It's one of those public safety types of issues," said Dane Platt, one of the initiative organizers. "If you're going 20 miles an hour over the speed limit, you probably are endangering the public safety."

And the initiative, if it makes the 2010 ballot and is approved by voters, would not affect "red light cameras" which photograph motorists who do not stop at intersections.

http://www.azdailysun.com/articles/2008 ... 186469.txt

[dbackjon]

Photo Radar is all over the valley - really sucks...

[travelinman67]

PHOENIX -- Arizona voters may get a chance to do what lawmakers have not: outlaw photo radar and similar systems to catch speeders.

A new initiative drive launched by two business owners would bar the state or local governments from issuing citations based on evidence obtained from photo enforcement cameras like the ones already operated by many cities and the system being deployed statewide by the Department of Public Safety. The proposal contains an exception for motorists clocked at traveling more than 20 miles per hour over the posted speed limit.

"It's one of those public safety types of issues," said Dane Platt, one of the initiative organizers. "If you're going 20 miles an hour over the speed limit, you probably are endangering the public safety."

And the initiative, if it makes the 2010 ballot and is approved by voters, would not affect "red light cameras" which photograph motorists who do not stop at intersections.

http://www.azdailysun.com/articles/2008 ... 186469.txt

I'd like to see their "collections" ratio. How many of the photo I.D.'s come back as "unrecognizable" or write offs as the driver has no record or I.D.
I've always thought the camera systems should ONLY be employed in areas that have a documented and PUBLICLY PUBLISHED high traffic collision rate. Not just "higher" than average, but at least three times the rate for that zone (zip code).
I see where the city of Montecito is removing their red-light cams, and Claremont won't be too far behind...both abused their deployment...used for revenue generation rather that violation enforcement.
Sad thing is, if the fines were not so draconian and excessive, these might not have been so controversial.

[dbackjon]

I do support the red-light cameras

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

I do support the red-light cameras

You are a smart feller dback so I'm sure you have your reasons but this bullshit of for the "public safety" thing is just getting out of hand. We keep just giving away rights to be protected. This quote is exactly what pisses me off.

"It's one of those public safety types of issues," said Dane Platt, one of the initiative organizers. "If you're going 20 miles an hour over the speed limit, you probably are endangering the public safety."

What a bunch of pussies we are to even allow these fucks into our lives like this. Kids can't even go out and play anymore due to the cycle of fear in this country anymore. me and my little brother started running for the whole day in the summer from about 9 or 10 yrs. old and it made us a lot tougher and more able to deal with things than having mommy and daddy around us constantly. When went out on Halloween I would have been absolutely fucking embarrassed to be a 10 yr. old and have my mommy and daddy there watching over my every step. The kids that did have their parents with them were total pussies and remained that way all the way through high school. The way we just give away our rights to privacy in this country anymore is fucking sickening. God damn play dates, time outs, and all the other bullshit that parents do now is sickening but since they are willing to give it all up to be "SAFE" why shouldn't they expect it at every turn? Congrats to the guys that started this and I doubt they will be successful but at least they have balls enough to say "Fuck You" and let the cops do their jobs instead of a god damn camera.

[grizzaholic]

I do support the red-light cameras

You are a smart feller dback so I'm sure you have your reasons but this bullshit of for the "public safety" thing is just getting out of hand. We keep just giving away rights to be protected. This quote is exactly what pisses me off.

"It's one of those public safety types of issues," said Dane Platt, one of the initiative organizers. "If you're going 20 miles an hour over the speed limit, you probably are endangering the public safety."

What a bunch of pussies we are to even allow these f**k[*] into our lives like this. Kids can't even go out and play anymore due to the cycle of fear in this country anymore. me and my little brother started running for the whole day in the summer from about 9 or 10 yrs. old and it made us a lot tougher and more able to deal with things than having mommy and daddy around us constantly. When went out on Halloween I would have been absolutely f**k[*] embarrassed to be a 10 yr. old and have my mommy and daddy there watching over my every step. The kids that did have their parents with them were total pussies and remained that way all the way through high school. The way we just give away our rights to privacy in this country anymore is f**k[*] sickening. God damn play dates, time outs, and all the other bullshit that parents do now is sickening but since they are willing to give it all up to be "SAFE" why shouldn't they expect it at every turn? Congrats to the guys that started this and I doubt they will be successful but at least they have balls enough to say "[*]f**k You" and let the cops do their jobs instead of a god damn camera.

Good post Ursus.

[dbackjon]

The reason I support the red light camera is they are for safety. They save lives.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

The reason I support the red light camera is they are for safety. They save lives.

That reasoning is exactly why us bunch of fucks let Bush take away our rights without any fight whatsoever. I agree with you to a point but I'm just getting a little sick and tired of that line of thinking with everybody. The safer things are in general the less fun things are, the more invasive in our lives things are, the more control us bunch of pussies just hand over. The line of thinking that if you don't have anything to hide then it shouldn't matter to you is bullshit. In Montana, luckily we are not watched constantly but in the bigger cities the people are watched or have cameras on them at almost all times of the day. Why do we let them monitor everything we do? I'm sure you probably have the statistic but how many lives is it saving? When the majority of the people come to a red light they stop don't they? Those that run one deserve to be punished, I agree, but everyone else that is there is being tracked in their movements aren't they? If this shit keeps progressing and we keep letting these slick salesman sell us this bill of "safety" we will have given up way too much by then.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Good post Ursus.

Thanks Grizza, it's good to knwo that at least one younger fella is not willing to just keep handing rights adn freedoms over to the overlords.

[grizzaholic]

Good post Ursus.

Thanks Grizza, it's good to knwo that at least one younger fella is not willing to just keep handing rights adn freedoms over to the overlords.

Thanks. I would have had something more to say but you pretty much covered it.

On a side note I have never TP'd a house. There were better things to do on Halloween.

[dbackjon]

The reason I support the red light camera is they are for safety. They save lives.

That reasoning is exactly why us bunch of f**k[*] let Bush take away our rights without any fight whatsoever. I agree with you to a point but I'm just getting a little sick and tired of that line of thinking with everybody. The safer things are in general the less fun things are, the more invasive in our lives things are, the more control us bunch of pussies just hand over. The line of thinking that if you don't have anything to hide then it shouldn't matter to you is bullshit. In Montana, luckily we are not watched constantly but in the bigger cities the people are watched or have cameras on them at almost all times of the day. Why do we let them monitor everything we do? I'm sure you probably have the statistic but how many lives is it saving? When the majority of the people come to a red light they stop don't they? Those that run one deserve to be punished, I agree, but everyone else that is there is being tracked in their movements aren't they? If this shit keeps progressing and we keep letting these slick salesman sell us this bill of "safety" we will have given up way too much by then.

I disagree - not even close to the same thing. In Arizona, we have had a huge problem with people running red lights, and causing fatal accidents. Use of red-light cameras has drastically diminished. The cameras do not activate unless you run the light.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

That reasoning is exactly why us bunch of f**k[*] let Bush take away our rights without any fight whatsoever. I agree with you to a point but I'm just getting a little sick and tired of that line of thinking with everybody. The safer things are in general the less fun things are, the more invasive in our lives things are, the more control us bunch of pussies just hand over. The line of thinking that if you don't have anything to hide then it shouldn't matter to you is bullshit. In Montana, luckily we are not watched constantly but in the bigger cities the people are watched or have cameras on them at almost all times of the day. Why do we let them monitor everything we do? I'm sure you probably have the statistic but how many lives is it saving? When the majority of the people come to a red light they stop don't they? Those that run one deserve to be punished, I agree, but everyone else that is there is being tracked in their movements aren't they? If this shit keeps progressing and we keep letting these slick salesman sell us this bill of "safety" we will have given up way too much by then.

I disagree - not even close to the same thing. In Arizona, we have had a huge problem with people running red lights, and causing fatal accidents. Use of red-light cameras has drastically diminished. The cameras do not activate unless you run the light.

That's a good thing and I believe I covered that. If it's only there to catch the people doing it then great but leave the rest of us the fuck alone. I just think that in the overall scheme we don't all need to be monitored like we're inmates in some gigantic prison system. If we disagree on the rest of it then that's the way it's gonna have to be I guess.

[HI54UNI]

That reasoning is exactly why us bunch of f**k[*] let Bush take away our rights without any fight whatsoever. I agree with you to a point but I'm just getting a little sick and tired of that line of thinking with everybody. The safer things are in general the less fun things are, the more invasive in our lives things are, the more control us bunch of pussies just hand over. The line of thinking that if you don't have anything to hide then it shouldn't matter to you is bullshit. In Montana, luckily we are not watched constantly but in the bigger cities the people are watched or have cameras on them at almost all times of the day. Why do we let them monitor everything we do? I'm sure you probably have the statistic but how many lives is it saving? When the majority of the people come to a red light they stop don't they? Those that run one deserve to be punished, I agree, but everyone else that is there is being tracked in their movements aren't they? If this shit keeps progressing and we keep letting these slick salesman sell us this bill of "safety" we will have given up way too much by then.

I disagree - not even close to the same thing. In Arizona, we have had a huge problem with people running red lights, and causing fatal accidents. Use of red-light cameras has drastically diminished. The cameras do not activate unless you run the light.

If the intent is to prevent accidents OK. However having previously worked in local government for 15 years I know that many cities are adding red light cameras claiming to be worried about safety but are really after the revenue the cameras produce.

And no I'm not guilty of it. I got the only stoplight in town taken out during my tenure!

[Appaholic]

That reasoning is exactly why us bunch of f**k[*] let Bush take away our rights without any fight whatsoever. I agree with you to a point but I'm just getting a little sick and tired of that line of thinking with everybody. The safer things are in general the less fun things are, the more invasive in our lives things are, the more control us bunch of pussies just hand over. The line of thinking that if you don't have anything to hide then it shouldn't matter to you is bullshit. In Montana, luckily we are not watched constantly but in the bigger cities the people are watched or have cameras on them at almost all times of the day. Why do we let them monitor everything we do? I'm sure you probably have the statistic but how many lives is it saving? When the majority of the people come to a red light they stop don't they? Those that run one deserve to be punished, I agree, but everyone else that is there is being tracked in their movements aren't they? If this shit keeps progressing and we keep letting these slick salesman sell us this bill of "safety" we will have given up way too much by then.

I disagree - not even close to the same thing. In Arizona, we have had a huge problem with people running red lights, and causing fatal accidents. Use of red-light cameras has drastically diminished. The cameras do not activate unless you run the light.

In NC, like most laws enacted in this state, it was a revenue generator diguised as a public safety measure. A for-profit third party monitored the ticketing and handeled the appeals, which, you had to pay the ticket to appeal and if you won, you got money back minus an administration fee. People were getting ticketed for running red lights (cameras came on when light turned red and photo anything in intersection) as part of police escorted funeral processions.....and the appeals were being denied. In the end, two local colleges conducted a study which showed that, while the cameras did result in a decrease of red-light running offenses, the intersections where installed saw a sharp inrease in rear-end accidents as people, worried about ticket would lock breaks up as soon as yellow light popped regardless if they were already in intersection and would safely make it through.....so much for public safety.

[AshevilleApp]

I do support the red-light cameras

You are a smart feller dback so I'm sure you have your reasons but this bullshit of for the "public safety" thing is just getting out of hand. We keep just giving away rights to be protected. This quote is exactly what pisses me off.

"It's one of those public safety types of issues," said Dane Platt, one of the initiative organizers. "If you're going 20 miles an hour over the speed limit, you probably are endangering the public safety."

What a bunch of pussies we are to even allow these f**k[*] into our lives like this. Kids can't even go out and play anymore due to the cycle of fear in this country anymore. me and my little brother started running for the whole day in the summer from about 9 or 10 yrs. old and it made us a lot tougher and more able to deal with things than having mommy and daddy around us constantly. When went out on Halloween I would have been absolutely f**k[*] embarrassed to be a 10 yr. old and have my mommy and daddy there watching over my every step. The kids that did have their parents with them were total pussies and remained that way all the way through high school. The way we just give away our rights to privacy in this country anymore is f**k[*] sickening. God damn play dates, time outs, and all the other bullshit that parents do now is sickening but since they are willing to give it all up to be "SAFE" why shouldn't they expect it at every turn? Congrats to the guys that started this and I doubt they will be successful but at least they have balls enough to say "[*]f**k You" and let the cops do their jobs instead of a god damn camera.

Good thoughts Ursus. I'm curious what people think about open container in vehicle laws. If I go to a bar and drink two beers and then hit a checkpoint, I won't be charged with an alcohol violation. If I drink two beers while driving and hit the same checkpoint, I won't be charged with DWI, but I will get ticketed with having an open container of alcohol in the vehicle. Same amount of alcohol in the system. Same level of impairment. How is this effectively reducing the incidence of driving drunk and promoting public safety?

[dbackjon]

Ursus fully supports Open Container Laws

[grizzaholic]

You are a smart feller dback so I'm sure you have your reasons but this bullshit of for the "public safety" thing is just getting out of hand. We keep just giving away rights to be protected. This quote is exactly what pisses me off.

"It's one of those public safety types of issues," said Dane Platt, one of the initiative organizers. "If you're going 20 miles an hour over the speed limit, you probably are endangering the public safety."

What a bunch of pussies we are to even allow these f**k[*] into our lives like this. Kids can't even go out and play anymore due to the cycle of fear in this country anymore. me and my little brother started running for the whole day in the summer from about 9 or 10 yrs. old and it made us a lot tougher and more able to deal with things than having mommy and daddy around us constantly. When went out on Halloween I would have been absolutely f**k[*] embarrassed to be a 10 yr. old and have my mommy and daddy there watching over my every step. The kids that did have their parents with them were total pussies and remained that way all the way through high school. The way we just give away our rights to privacy in this country anymore is f**k[*] sickening. God damn play dates, time outs, and all the other bullshit that parents do now is sickening but since they are willing to give it all up to be "SAFE" why shouldn't they expect it at every turn? Congrats to the guys that started this and I doubt they will be successful but at least they have balls enough to say "[*]f**k You" and let the cops do their jobs instead of a god damn camera.

Good thoughts Ursus. I'm curious what people think about open container in vehicle laws. If I go to a bar and drink two beers and then hit a checkpoint, I won't be charged with an alcohol violation. If I drink two beers while driving and hit the same checkpoint, I won't be charged with DWI, but I will get ticketed with having an open container of alcohol in the vehicle. Same amount of alcohol in the system. Same level of impairment. How is this effectively reducing the incidence of driving drunk and promoting public safety?

It used to be ok in the State of Montana to have an open container in the vehicle and the passengers could drink when on the highway as much as they wanted. Not any more.

It is a saftey issue. If the cooler is in the back seat you have to take your eyes off of the road to get another beer, just too many people getting into accidents while trying to open the cooler while driving with a leg.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Good thoughts Ursus. I'm curious what people think about open container in vehicle laws. If I go to a bar and drink two beers and then hit a checkpoint, I won't be charged with an alcohol violation. If I drink two beers while driving and hit the same checkpoint, I won't be charged with DWI, but I will get ticketed with having an open container of alcohol in the vehicle. Same amount of alcohol in the system. Same level of impairment. How is this effectively reducing the incidence of driving drunk and promoting public safety?

I think it's absolute horse shit. If you're drunk you're drunk and the fact that you're not drunk and have an open beer in your vehicle should have no penalty outside of that. We were able to have open containers in Montana until just a couple of years ago. I haven't heard anything about the incidents of drunk driving dropping or accidents due to having an open container dropping but I don't know what the actual stats are. I would have to check what the highway death toll has been for the past couple of years but I bet it's hasn't changed because of the open container law.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

It used to be ok in the State of Montana to have an open container in the vehicle and the passengers could drink when on the highway as much as they wanted. Not any more.

It is a saftey issue. If the cooler is in the back seat you have to take your eyes off of the road to get another beer, just too many people getting into accidents while trying to open the cooler while driving with a leg.

That's horse shit too Grizza, a fucking safety issue? If that's so then why is it legal to have a cooler in the car and an open Pepsi?

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Ursus fully supports Open Container Laws

Revenue generating from the fun vampires.

[AshevilleApp]

Good thoughts Ursus. I'm curious what people think about open container in vehicle laws. If I go to a bar and drink two beers and then hit a checkpoint, I won't be charged with an alcohol violation. If I drink two beers while driving and hit the same checkpoint, I won't be charged with DWI, but I will get ticketed with having an open container of alcohol in the vehicle. Same amount of alcohol in the system. Same level of impairment. How is this effectively reducing the incidence of driving drunk and promoting public safety?

I think it's absolute horse shit. If you're drunk you're drunk and the fact that you're not drunk and have an open beer in your vehicle should have no penalty outside of that. We were able to have open containers in Montana until just a couple of years ago. I haven't heard anything about the incidents of drunk driving dropping or accidents due to having an open container dropping but I don't know what the actual stats are. I would have to check what the highway death toll has been for the past couple of years but I bet it's hasn't changed because of the open container law.

I agree. If a cop is doing his job properly he'll test the sobriety of a person who has been drinking anyway. Open container or not. I'm not condoning drunk driving by any means, but this law justs adds another level to the small personal freedoms that we have given up or had taken.

[AZGrizFan]

PHOENIX -- Arizona voters may get a chance to do what lawmakers have not: outlaw photo radar and similar systems to catch speeders.

A new initiative drive launched by two business owners would bar the state or local governments from issuing citations based on evidence obtained from photo enforcement cameras like the ones already operated by many cities and the system being deployed statewide by the Department of Public Safety. The proposal contains an exception for motorists clocked at traveling more than 20 miles per hour over the posted speed limit.

"It's one of those public safety types of issues," said Dane Platt, one of the initiative organizers. "If you're going 20 miles an hour over the speed limit, you probably are endangering the public safety."

And the initiative, if it makes the 2010 ballot and is approved by voters, would not affect "red light cameras" which photograph motorists who do not stop at intersections.

http://www.azdailysun.com/articles/2008 ... 186469.txt

I'd like to see their "collections" ratio. How many of the photo I.D.'s come back as "unrecognizable" or write offs as the driver has no record or I.D.
I've always thought the camera systems should ONLY be employed in areas that have a documented and PUBLICLY PUBLISHED high traffic collision rate. Not just "higher" than average, but at least three times the rate for that zone (zip code).
I see where the city of Montecito is removing their red-light cams, and Claremont won't be too far behind...both abused their deployment...used for revenue generation rather that violation enforcement.
Sad thing is, if the fines were not so draconian and excessive, these might not have been so controversial.

I don't know about collection ratio, but they've put up about 30 cameras around the valley/state over the past 6 months, and in the four months since they turned them up, they've issued over 40,000 tickets for about $6 million in revenue.

[grizzaholic]

It used to be ok in the State of Montana to have an open container in the vehicle and the passengers could drink when on the highway as much as they wanted. Not any more.

It is a saftey issue. If the cooler is in the back seat you have to take your eyes off of the road to get another beer, just too many people getting into accidents while trying to open the cooler while driving with a leg.

That's horse shit too Grizza, a f**k[*] safety issue? If that's so then why is it legal to have a cooler in the car and an open Pepsi?

It was a joke Ursus.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

That's horse shit too Grizza, a f**k[*] safety issue? If that's so then why is it legal to have a cooler in the car and an open Pepsi?

It was a joke Ursus.

Knowing you I thought it had to be but the humor was so dry that I took you serious. You got me on that one. Good job, I fell for it.

[grizzaholic]

It was a joke Ursus.

Knowing you I thought it had to be but the humor was so dry that I took you serious. You got me on that one. Good job, I fell for it.

Glad I could help out.