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Yesterday, riding a wave of adulation and military-reverence, the Obama administration tried to end the life of this American citizen -- never charged with, let alone convicted of, any crime -- with a drone strike in Yemen, but missed and killed two other people instead:

A missile strike from an American military drone in a remote region of Yemen on Thursday was aimed at killing Anwar al-Awlaki, the radical American-born cleric believed to be hiding in the country, American officials said Friday.

The attack does not appear to have killed Mr. Awlaki, the officials said, but may have killed operatives of Al Qaeda's affiliate in Yemen.

The other people killed "may have" been Al Qaeda operatives. Or they "may not have" been. Who cares? They're mere collateral damage on the glorious road to ending the life of this American citizen without due process (and pointing out that the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution expressly guarantees that "no person shall be deprived of life without due process of law" -- and provides no exception for war -- is the sort of tedious legalism that shouldn't interfere with the excitement of drone strikes)...

Whenever America uses violence in a way that makes its citizens cheer, beam with nationalistic pride, and rally around their leader, more violence is typically guaranteed. Futile decade-long wars in Iraq and Afghanistan may temporarily dampen the nationalistic enthusiasm for war, but two shots to the head of Osama bin Laden -- and the We are Great and Good proclamations it engenders -- can easily rejuvenate that war love. . . . We're feeling good and strong about ourselves again -- and righteous -- and that's often the fertile ground for more, not less, aggression.

The killing of bin Laden got the testosterone pumping, the righteousness pulsating, and faith in the American military and its Commander-in-Chief skyrocketing to all-time highs. It made America feel good about itself in a way that no other event has since at least Obama's inauguration; we got to forget about rampant unemployment, home foreclosures by the millions, a decade's worth of militaristic futility and slaughter, and ever-growing Third-World levels of wealth inequality. This was a week for flag-waving, fist-pumping, and nationalistic chanting: even -- especially -- among liberals, who were able to take the lead and show the world (and themselves) that they are no wilting, delicate wimps; it's not merely swaggering right-wing Texans, but they, too, who can put bullets in people's heads and dump corpses into the ocean and then joke and cheer about it afterwards. It's inconceivable that this wave of collective pride, boosted self-esteem, vicarious strength, and renewed purpose won't produce a desire to replicate itself. Four days after bin Laden is killed, a missile rains down from the sky to try to execute Awlaki without due process, and that'll be far from the last such episode (indeed, also yesterday, the U.S. launched a drone attack in Pakistan, ending the lives of 15 more people: yawn).

dbackjon wrote:Is he still a citizen? Did he renounce it? Can citizenship be stripped?


The American citizens that joined the Germans in WWI - should they have been exempt from being shot at?


Has he been given the opportunity to surrender?

∞∞∞ wrote:It's kinda freaky to know that I actually met this fella at one point in my life, and hell even shaked his hand.

EWURanger wrote:I'm not sure if his citizenship has been revoked, but it'd be stupid for him to renounce it - because if he did, we wouldn't even be having this discussion right now. It potentially makes things a lot harder for the government, since I think this is the first time its sought approval for the targeting of a U.S. citizen. The ACLU challenged the government on this last year, but a Federal Court threw it out. The Yemeni government's stance is that he is captured dead or alive.

They are walking a fine line here, but IMO, the fact that he's still (?) a citizen is really just a technicality. We're talking about someone who is complicit in terrorist activities against the US, hiding in a Yemeni desert to avoid capture. The people that are whining about due process are the same people that would be bitching about us sending guys in to capture him.

∞∞∞ wrote:I think he pseudo-revoked his citizenship when he committed treason and joined a military that's fightning the United States and trying to actively kill Americans. I also think that sometimes the law of common sense should take precedence over the law of the land, as long as it's absolutely reasonable (ex. kids being forced to take down lemonade stands because they don't have permits). I think this is one of those cases where our natural common sense as humans should bypass our written laws, and I find it perfectly reasonable to kill someone who is trying to kill us. This is a pretty damn good question though as I can see the slippery slope side of it too.

On a fun side note, this dude was the Imam at the Mosque my parents used to take me to when I actually cared about religion. Don't remember much, but I never recalled him goin' all ape-shit on America during his sermons, or whatever they're called in Islam. It's kinda freaky to know that I actually met this fella at one point in my life, and hell even shaked his hand.

∞∞∞ wrote:I think he pseudo-revoked his citizenship when he committed treason and joined a military that's fightning the United States and trying to actively kill Americans. I also think that sometimes the law of common sense should take precedence over the law of the land, as long as it's absolutely reasonable (ex. kids being forced to take down lemonade stands because they don't have permits). I think this is one of those cases where our natural common sense as humans should bypass our written laws, and I find it perfectly reasonable to kill someone who is trying to kill us. This is a pretty damn good question though as I can see the slippery slope side of it too.

CitadelGrad wrote:Someone should create an Al-Qaeda/Taliban dead pool. With 2.7 terabytes taken from bin Laden's house, there has to be some really good actionable intelligence.

Ibanez wrote:Meanwhile, what is up with the inccrease in attacks on terrorists? Have we finally grown a pair or is this to give Obama more credit now that the election cycle is picking up. Remember the first debates were last week.

I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God

AZGrizFan wrote:

I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God

kalm wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

kalm wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

dbackjon wrote:

kalm wrote:

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

How about we give him 24 hours to surrender, hold a trial in absentia, then, if found guilty of a capital crime, sentence him to death?

AZGrizFan wrote:

dbackjon wrote:
How about we give him 24 hours to surrender, hold a trial in absentia, then, if found guilty of a capital crime, sentence him to death?

Sounds good to me. How about we do that for all of 'em?