Ill. Gov. arrested in Obama successor probe

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Re: Ill. Gov. arrested in Obama successor probe

Post by D1B »

AZGrizFan wrote:
travelinman67 wrote: This isn't just about religion spoiling a party with litmus issues. The entire American political process has been manipulated by special interests who divide and conquer. Regardless of that group's interests, forcing an issue into an "all or nothing" test, by it's nature, eliminates reason from the debate. This has gone on since the dawn of politics, yet folks who have had the power to force issues into the arena to be debated openly with all sides being represented, formerly called "statesmen", have vanished. There are a few left in Washington, but attempts to represent and debate get shouted down by the NGO's representing special interests.

This is not a Donk or Conk issue. The "Christian" right is not the Dark Force. Nor are the Gays. This is simply a period of time when special interests control the process.

Ask yourself, "If society would acknowledge equal rights for gays, including the rights to marriage, and marital benefits in the workplace, elimination of all overtly codified prohibitions against homosexuality, but absent the provisions to allow for the constitutional recognition of gay rights via court mandated decrees applicable to education, AND the prohibition of tort damages in any former case of discrimination, would that be acceptable to me?"

Think about it. Based on everything you've said in the past, equal rights, marriage, benefits; you'd have to answer in the affirmative.

But that IS NOT what the leaders of the gay rights would be willing to accept. I'd stake my life on it.

Why?

Because the Gay rights movement, just as with most other movements that have emerged in the past 40 years since CRA, have also included mechanisms to guarantee the beneficiary of the new law the ability to:

1) Collect tort damages on past and future acts of discrimination.
2) Compel the education curricula and government agencies to take action to affirmatively recognize and promote the recently empowered class.
3) Require reparation by organizations that previously opposed equal rights, either financial, or by public apology and affirmation, to the new class, including mandatory adoption of doctrinal changes to codify the "past error", and state the organization's support of the new class.

Say it ain't so.

The above is why the Christians, and all other groups who oppose homosexuality for doctrinal, spiritual, or philisophical reasons will never agree to accept the "equal rights" concept. It's not just about "equal rights", it's about forcing others to say "uncle", with their wallet out, a smile on their face. It's called "humiliation".

A good negotiation has both sides walking out feeling like they've accomplished something.

A war has one side forcing the other to admit defeat in total submission.

Take the money off the table, and the lawyers out of the process, Jon, and this stops being a war, and becomes a constitutional amendment.

(...back to my original comment regarding the religious right...don't allow yourself to get sucked into that "hate" corner by the special interests. Otherwise, you'll fall into the same category as the Phelps of this world. Just another hateful loon, on the other side of the street.)
Once again, the cs.com voice of reason has spoken.

All hail the voice of reason. You too, D1B. :D :D :D
Tman has some good points, but again, he (and you) failed to adequetly address Jon's statement about the R party being hijacked by the religious right. He simply states it's (special interests) a national problem, and it is to a certain extent, but it's effect specifically on the republican party has been remarkable.

The fact is the Christian Right is a dark force and since Reagan has been the primary agent of hate and divisiveness in America. It's also a fact that christian right owns the republican party.

I believe even you thought it very possible that the rep party will split in two eventually, with the christians in lock step with industrialist on the hate and divisiveness platform and the moderates, social liberals, fiscal conservatives on the focus on efficiently running the country and stay out of our affairs platform.
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Re: Ill. Gov. arrested in Obama successor probe

Post by dbackjon »

T-man? Voice of Reason?? LOL ;)
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Re: Ill. Gov. arrested in Obama successor probe

Post by lifesapuntreturn »

Obama has several problems with this mess:

*He is clearly tied to Blagojevich politically. He endorsed Blago for guv in 2002 while Obama was in the Illinois state senate. He campaigned for Blago's re-election in 2006 while he was a US Senator. Those are irrefutable political connections and make Obama look bad. That's politics.

*Obama and Blago have a common business "acquaintance", Rezko. The whole deal between Obama and Rezko still stinks and always will but the media gave Obama a pass on it. That's back on the table now. That combined with Rezko/Blago association again makes Obama look bad. "The company you keep ..."

*Rezko is in a position to bargain for his future. If he has anything he would like the world to know about his dealings with either Obama or Blago, now's the time for him to talk. Same with Blago - it's "let's make a deal time" for him. The powers that be want him to resign the governorship, which he will do, but only when he gets the concessions/legal deal he wants. He can follow the Eliot Spitzer playbook but if things don't go to Blago's liking, how long do you think it wlll take him to start making accusations about him and Obama, whether true or not. But, if he makes them about a president-elect/president, they will be checked out thoroughly. Even if untrue, it diminishes Obama's reputation.

*Reports are that some of Obama's closest advisors may be among the people anonymously identified in the prosecutor's arrest affidavit. That doesn't mean they have done anything wrong and it appears that they have not, but having their names pop up in this manner again makes Obama look bad.

*The biggie at this point is that Obama said yesterday he had not had any contact with Blago about filling Obama's Senate seat. However, Alexrod, Obama's former campaign manager and now an advisor, said two weeks ago that Obama had talked to Blago about it. Then last night Alexrod issued a press release retracting his comments of two weeks ago, saying they were incorrect. Hmmmm. Something doesn't smell right with that - it stinks. I guarantee you that matter will get a lot more scrutiny and a simple retraction two weeks after the fact and only after Blago got busted isn't going to pass muster with a lot of people. If Obama was smart, he would stand in front of the media today, with Axelrod right next to him, and they would both clearly state publicly whether or not Obama has had ANY contact with Blago regarding the Senate seat. If the answer is no, I want to hear Obama say so clearly, then I want Axelrod to step to the mic and explain why he said what he did two weeks ago regarding Obama and Blago talking about it. Clear it up completely and immediately, Obama, or it will follow you until you do.

*Being from Chicago and Illinois, Obama already had the perception of being a part of the Chicago political machine and their operations. This now furthers that perception and there's nothing he can do about that any more. This Blago mess will give even more people reason to dig even deeper into Obama's past in regard to ALL of his political connections in Chicago and Wright and Ayers names' will be invoked time and again in regard to this. The media tried desperately to tie Bush to Ken Lay and Enron when that mess developed so let's see if they try equally hard to tie Obama to Blago and the Chicago machine.

This is not the type of situation that Obama needs to be tied to before he even takes office. And if this is the kind of presidency we have to look forward to for the next four years, we are in even deeper trouble than I already thought we were as a country.
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Re: Ill. Gov. arrested in Obama successor probe

Post by dbackjon »

Since it is likely Obama's aides that turned blago into the FBI, and Blago is quoted as saying Fuck Obama, Obama will benefit from this.
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Re: Ill. Gov. arrested in Obama successor probe

Post by lifesapuntreturn »

dbackjon wrote:Since it is likely Obama's aides that turned blago into the FBI, and Blago is quoted as saying [*]f**k Obama, Obama will benefit from this.
Blago has been under federal investigation for three years. He knew he was under investigation. He hinted broadly and publicly at a press conference Monday, the day before he was busted, that he knew he was being recorded by investigators. Blago was at the presser in support of the workers who are holed up inside the former door and window factory in Illinois who are blaming Bank of America for the factory and business closure. Blago made his comments into a mic and on camera, comments that have been replayed numerous times the past couple of days.

Obama's aides didn't turn Blago into the feds, the feds were onto Blago a long time ago. There's no way Obama benefits from this. He's running as fast and as far as possible from Blago. Now it was just announced that Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr. is "candidate 5". Hmmmm.
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Re: Ill. Gov. arrested in Obama successor probe

Post by dbackjon »

Blago and Obama were never close - on opposite ends of the Demo Party.
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Re: Ill. Gov. arrested in Obama successor probe

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dbackjon wrote:Blago and Obama were never close - on opposite ends of the Demo Party.
dback is right about this. Obama is connected to Blago through party affiliation only.

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Re: Ill. Gov. arrested in Obama successor probe

Post by AZGrizFan »

D1B wrote: Tman has some good points, but again, he (and you) failed to adequetly address Jon's statement about the R party being hijacked by the religious right. He simply states it's (special interests) a national problem, and it is to a certain extent, but it's effect specifically on the republican party has been remarkable.

The fact is the Christian Right is a dark force and since Reagan has been the primary agent of hate and divisiveness in America. It's also a fact that christian right owns the republican party.

I believe even you thought it very possible that the rep party will split in two eventually, with the christians in lock step with industrialist on the hate and divisiveness platform and the moderates, social liberals, fiscal conservatives on the focus on efficiently running the country and stay out of our affairs platform.
All that is well and good, D, but to BLAME this on the Republican party is hypocritical at best, and ludicrous at worst. 'We WANTED to vote for your guy, but we just couldn't bring ourselves to!" :roll: :roll:

Yeah I think the Republican party will eventually split. Then again, I think moderate democrats will eventually realize that this isn't your father's Democratic Party either. And THAT is where the third party will come from in this country...the middle 70% that is NOT represented by the redistribution of wealth left or the religious zealots on the right.

I'm really not here to argue that point though, just to point out the hypocrisy of Jon's statement about "blaming it on the Republicans".
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Re: Ill. Gov. arrested in Obama successor probe

Post by AZGrizFan »

lifesapuntreturn wrote:Obama has several problems with this mess:

*He is clearly tied to Blagojevich politically. He endorsed Blago for guv in 2002 while Obama was in the Illinois state senate. He campaigned for Blago's re-election in 2006 while he was a US Senator. Those are irrefutable political connections and make Obama look bad. That's politics.

*Obama and Blago have a common business "acquaintance", Rezko. The whole deal between Obama and Rezko still stinks and always will but the media gave Obama a pass on it. That's back on the table now. That combined with Rezko/Blago association again makes Obama look bad. "The company you keep ..."
That's cute and all, but if Obama's association with Rezko, Ayers, Alinsky, et. al, BEFORE the election couldn't sway America's warped opinion of him, this little speed bump ain't even gonna slow down THAT political machine. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Re: Ill. Gov. arrested in Obama successor probe

Post by Cap'n Cat »

Why don't all you guys shut up and love each other?

Jesus doesn't like when you fight.

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Re: Ill. Gov. arrested in Obama successor probe

Post by D1B »

AZGrizFan wrote:
D1B wrote: Tman has some good points, but again, he (and you) failed to adequetly address Jon's statement about the R party being hijacked by the religious right. He simply states it's (special interests) a national problem, and it is to a certain extent, but it's effect specifically on the republican party has been remarkable.

The fact is the Christian Right is a dark force and since Reagan has been the primary agent of hate and divisiveness in America. It's also a fact that christian right owns the republican party.

I believe even you thought it very possible that the rep party will split in two eventually, with the christians in lock step with industrialist on the hate and divisiveness platform and the moderates, social liberals, fiscal conservatives on the focus on efficiently running the country and stay out of our affairs platform.
All that is well and good, D, but to BLAME this on the Republican party is hypocritical at best, and ludicrous at worst. 'We WANTED to vote for your guy, but we just couldn't bring ourselves to!" :roll: :roll:

Yeah I think the Republican party will eventually split. Then again, I think moderate democrats will eventually realize that this isn't your father's Democratic Party either. And THAT is where the third party will come from in this country...the middle 70% that is NOT represented by the redistribution of wealth left or the religious zealots on the right.

I'm really not here to argue that point though, just to point out the hypocrisy of Jon's statement about "blaming it on the Republicans".

Hear ya. No use blaming the republicans, for this.
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Re: Ill. Gov. arrested in Obama successor probe

Post by AZGrizFan »

D1B wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote: All that is well and good, D, but to BLAME this on the Republican party is hypocritical at best, and ludicrous at worst. 'We WANTED to vote for your guy, but we just couldn't bring ourselves to!" :roll: :roll:

Yeah I think the Republican party will eventually split. Then again, I think moderate democrats will eventually realize that this isn't your father's Democratic Party either. And THAT is where the third party will come from in this country...the middle 70% that is NOT represented by the redistribution of wealth left or the religious zealots on the right.

I'm really not here to argue that point though, just to point out the hypocrisy of Jon's statement about "blaming it on the Republicans".

Hear ya. No use blaming the republicans, for this.
In all honesty, the fact that people would vote for a KNOWN crooked scumbag over the remote possibility of someone pushing their religious agenda down their throats is really unbelievable. But, nothing in Illinois politics surprises me any more. :(
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Re: Ill. Gov. arrested in Obama successor probe

Post by D1B »

AZGrizFan wrote:
D1B wrote:
Hear ya. No use blaming the republicans, for this.
In all honesty, the fact that people would vote for a KNOWN crooked scumbag over the remote possibility of someone pushing their religious agenda down their throats is really unbelievable. But, nothing in Illinois politics surprises me any more. :(
Yep. You can thank George Bush and Sarah Palin for that.
"Sarah Palin absolutely blew AWAY the audience tonight. If there was any doubt as to whether she was savvy enough, tough enough or smart enough to carry the mantle of Vice President, she put those fears to rest tonight. She took on Barack Obama DIRECTLY on every issue and exposed... She did it with warmth and humor, and came across as the every-person....it's becoming mroe and more clear that she was a genius pick for McCain."

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Re: Ill. Gov. arrested in Obama successor probe

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D1B wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote: In all honesty, the fact that people would vote for a KNOWN crooked scumbag over the remote possibility of someone pushing their religious agenda down their throats is really unbelievable. But, nothing in Illinois politics surprises me any more. :(
Yep. You can thank George Bush and Sarah Palin for that.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You funny guy.
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Re: Ill. Gov. arrested in Obama successor probe

Post by Gil Dobie »

Jesse Jackson Jr offered $500,000 for the Senate position :shock:

I believe a couple people on this board could beat that offer. :party:
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Re: Ill. Gov. arrested in Obama successor probe

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Gil Dobie wrote:Jesse Jackson Jr offered $500,000 for the Senate position :shock:

I believe a couple people on this board could beat that offer. :party:
Alleged to have by certain media outlets, no confirmation from Fitz.
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Re: Ill. Gov. arrested in Obama successor probe

Post by houndawg »

Chicago has always been strongly bi-partisan and equal opportunity in it's venality and corruption. One republican governor is currently incarcerated and another barely escaped it. And while we're here let's raise a glass to dan "the sausage maker" Rostenkowski. Nobody can beat Chicago for crooked politicians, with the possible exception of Louisiana.
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Re: Ill. Gov. arrested in Obama successor probe

Post by Col Hogan »

houndawg wrote:Chicago has always been strongly bi-partisan and equal opportunity in it's venality and corruption. One republican governor is currently incarcerated and another barely escaped it. And while we're here let's raise a glass to dan "the sausage maker" Rostenkowski. Nobody can beat Chicago for crooked politicians, with the possible exception of Louisiana.
Don't forget little Rhode Island...

Per capita, they might be larger than the other two...

Just sayin'.....
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Re: Ill. Gov. arrested in Obama successor probe

Post by Gil Dobie »

dbackjon wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:Jesse Jackson Jr offered $500,000 for the Senate position :shock:

I believe a couple people on this board could beat that offer. :party:
Alleged to have by certain media outlets, no confirmation from Fitz.
That's right, he's a Democrat so he can't be guilty. :o
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Re: Ill. Gov. arrested in Obama successor probe

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Gil Dobie wrote:
dbackjon wrote: Alleged to have by certain media outlets, no confirmation from Fitz.
That's right, he's a Democrat so he can't be guilty. :o
Since I started the thread about a DEM, as did I about another dirty dem, Jefferson, your canard is old and tired.

JJJ may be guilty, who knows. But all speculation at this point, so why drag his name through the mud based on rumors? If he did, then it will come out, and he will go to jail. End of story.


SO what about your boy Coleman getting investigated by the FBI??
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Re: Ill. Gov. arrested in Obama successor probe

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Col Hogan wrote:
houndawg wrote:Chicago has always been strongly bi-partisan and equal opportunity in it's venality and corruption. One republican governor is currently incarcerated and another barely escaped it. And while we're here let's raise a glass to dan "the sausage maker" Rostenkowski. Nobody can beat Chicago for crooked politicians, with the possible exception of Louisiana.
Don't forget little Rhode Island...

Per capita, they might be larger than the other two...

Just sayin'.....
Goddamned easterners and their smug sense of superiorty. :roll:

Look pal, Illinois has cities more crooked than Rhode Island. The official motto of the city of Chicago is "Where's mine?".
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Re: Ill. Gov. arrested in Obama successor probe

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dbackjon wrote: SO what about your boy Coleman getting investigated by the FBI??
What'd he do. Try to use expired grocery coupons?

D...I wrote a lengthy thread on this a while back...there was a crapload of innuendo mud-slinging coming from Frankens campaign. Several MN lib publications that assisted in facilitating the rumors got scalped in the national arena.

re: JJJ...quite frankly, I really don't care if he offered to "buy" the seat or not. Jesse's become an anachronistic hack who is now HINDERING civil rights. Several bright, budding black leaders have been stifled and put down by Jesse and the old-school Rainbow/Julian Bond crew. Again, this is something that several of us heavily debated with JState and some of the other "rights" members a while back.
I'm not 'dissin the cause, but when Obama is not invited to, and real leaders like Kweisi Mfume and Harold Ford are not included in, the State of the Black World Congress meeting this past month (one of Jesse's pet showcases)...even though virtually every notable black leader including every black media celebrity was invited...(hey...even Kool Moe Dee, Davey D, and Black Panther offspring Monifa Akinwole Bandele, founder of the Malcolm X Grassroots Movement, and "Copwatch", who filed suit against NYPD and succeeded in forcing them to disband their Street Crimes [gang] Unit. Currently the MXGM is suing to force the government to restore voting rights to convicted felons: Clearly an AA leader of notable importance whose "voice" is worthy of inclusion. :puke: ), with Farrakhan as the keynote speaker...the handwriting was plain to see. Neither Obama, Ford or Mfume were included in that hatefest because they've had the courage to stand tall and act as American statesmen, not separatist Bondian schills or race baiters. They refrain from pandering to the Julian Bond disciples, single agenda/AA over all issues Kingmakers, and that simply isn't acceptable to folks like Jesse and Louis.

Farrakhan's and Jackson's times have passed. This isn't the 50's.

Jesse's legacy is missing integrity. There are so many GREAT AA leaders or simply great leaders who carry the banner for civil rights, that the names of the old-school crooks shouldn't even come up in discussion.
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Re: Ill. Gov. arrested in Obama successor probe

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It is Jesse Jackson JUNIOR that is the focus, not pops..
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Re: Ill. Gov. arrested in Obama successor probe

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dbackjon wrote:It is Jesse Jackson JUNIOR that is the focus, not pops..
Yeah, I know...but it makes no difference. Junior took over the Rainbow Coalition from pops, and has philosophically walked lockstep with his father his entire adult life. He is just another race-baiting torch bearer of the Malcolm X revivalist movement.

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Re: Ill. Gov. arrested in Obama successor probe

Post by D1B »

travelinman67 wrote:
dbackjon wrote: SO what about your boy Coleman getting investigated by the FBI??
What'd he do. Try to use expired grocery coupons?

D...I wrote a lengthy thread on this a while back...there was a crapload of innuendo mud-slinging coming from Frankens campaign. Several MN lib publications that assisted in facilitating the rumors got scalped in the national arena.

re: JJJ...quite frankly, I really don't care if he offered to "buy" the seat or not. Jesse's become an anachronistic hack who is now HINDERING civil rights. Several bright, budding black leaders have been stifled and put down by Jesse and the old-school Rainbow/Julian Bond crew. Again, this is something that several of us heavily debated with JState and some of the other "rights" members a while back.
I'm not 'dissin the cause, but when Obama is not invited to, and real leaders like Kweisi Mfume and Harold Ford are not included in, the State of the Black World Congress meeting this past month (one of Jesse's pet showcases)...even though virtually every notable black leader including every black media celebrity was invited...(hey...even Kool Moe Dee, Davey D, and Black Panther offspring Monifa Akinwole Bandele, founder of the Malcolm X Grassroots Movement, and "Copwatch", who filed suit against NYPD and succeeded in forcing them to disband their Street Crimes [gang] Unit. Currently the MXGM is suing to force the government to restore voting rights to convicted felons: Clearly an AA leader of notable importance whose "voice" is worthy of inclusion. :puke: ), with Farrakhan as the keynote speaker...the handwriting was plain to see. Neither Obama, Ford or Mfume were included in that hatefest because they've had the courage to stand tall and act as American statesmen, not separatist Bondian schills or race baiters. They refrain from pandering to the Julian Bond disciples, single agenda/AA over all issues Kingmakers, and that simply isn't acceptable to folks like Jesse and Louis.

Farrakhan's and Jackson's times have passed. This isn't the 50's.

Jesse's legacy is missing integrity. There are so many GREAT AA leaders or simply great leaders who carry the banner for civil rights, that the names of the old-school crooks shouldn't even come up in discussion.

Good post. Jackson is an albatross for blacks.
"Sarah Palin absolutely blew AWAY the audience tonight. If there was any doubt as to whether she was savvy enough, tough enough or smart enough to carry the mantle of Vice President, she put those fears to rest tonight. She took on Barack Obama DIRECTLY on every issue and exposed... She did it with warmth and humor, and came across as the every-person....it's becoming mroe and more clear that she was a genius pick for McCain."

AZGrizfan - Summer 2008

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