R.I.P. Republican Party

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R.I.P. Republican Party

Post by kalm »

To paraphrase Winston Churchill, if you're not a liberal when you're younger you have no soul, if you're not a conservative when you're older you have no brains.

Right at the time in my life when I should be sailing comfortably into that conkunism sunset, welcoming the open and rational and (no homo) embrace of the IT's and AZgrizfans of the world, I'm left with a conservative party that is failing miserably.

I know that I've been negligent on my Matt Taibbi articles lately so to bring you up to speed here is his latest that (I think) pretty much nails it.

As an interesting side note and if you're brave enough, feel free to post whether your political leanings we're left of center in your youth.
No, it was while watching the debates last night that it finally hit me: This is justice. What we have here are chickens coming home to roost. It's as if all of the American public's bad habits and perverse obsessions are all coming back to haunt Republican voters in this race: The lack of attention span, the constant demand for instant gratification, the abject hunger for negativity, the utter lack of backbone or constancy (we change our loyalties at the drop of a hat, all it takes is a clever TV ad): these things are all major factors in the spiraling Republican disaster.

Most importantly, though, the conservative passion for divisive, partisan, bomb-tossing politics is threatening to permanently cripple the Republican party. They long ago became more about pointing fingers than about ideology, and it's finally ruining them.

Oh, sure, your average conservative will insist his belief system is based upon a passion for the free market and limited government, but that's mostly a cover story. Instead, the vast team-building exercise that has driven the broadcasts of people like Rush and Hannity and the talking heads on Fox for decades now has really been a kind of ongoing Quest for Orthodoxy, in which the team members congregate in front of the TV and the radio and share in the warm feeling of pointing the finger at people who aren't as American as they are, who lack their family values, who don’t share their All-American work ethic.

The finger-pointing game is a fun one to play, but it’s a little like drugs – you have to keep taking bigger and bigger doses in order to get the same high.

So it starts with a bunch of these people huddling together and saying to themselves, "We’re the real good Americans; our problems are caused by all those other people out there who don’t share our values." At that stage the real turn-on for the followers is the recognition that there are other like-minded people out there, and they don’t need blood orgies and war cries to keep the faith strong – bake sales and church retreats will do.

So they form their local Moral Majority outfits, and they put Ronald Reagan in office, and they sit and wait for the world to revert to a world where there was one breadwinner in the family, and no teen pregnancy or crime or poor people, and immigrants worked hard and didn't ask for welfare and had the decency to speak English – a world that never existed in reality, of course, but they're waiting for a return to it nonetheless.

Think Ron Paul in the South Carolina debate, when he said that in the '60s, "there was nobody out in the street suffering with no medical care." Paul also recalled that after World War II, 10 million soldiers came home and prospered without any kind of government aid at all – all they needed was a massive cut to the federal budget, and those soldiers just surfed on the resultant wave of economic progress.

"You know what the government did? They cut the budget by 60 percent," he said. "And everybody went back to work again, you didn't need any special programs."

Right – it wasn’t like they needed a G.I. Bill or anything. After all, people were different back then: They didn’t want or need welfare, or a health care program, or any of those things. At least, that’s not the way Paul remembered it.

That's all the early conservative movement was. It was just a heartfelt request that we go back to the good old days of America as these people remembered or imagined it. Of course, the problem was, we couldn't go back, not just because more than half the population (particularly the nonwhite, non-straight, non-male segment of the population) desperately didn't want to go back, but also because that America never existed and was therefore impossible to recreate.

And when we didn’t go back to the good old days, this crowd got frustrated, and suddenly the message stopped being heartfelt and it got an edge to it.

The message went from, "We’re the real Americans; the others are the problem," to, "We’re the last line of defense; we hate those other people and they’re our enemies." Now it wasn’t just that the rest of us weren't getting with the program: Now we were also saboteurs, secretly or perhaps even openly conspiring with America’s enemies to prevent her return to the long-desired Days of Glory.

Now, why would us saboteurs do that? Out of jealousy (we resented their faith and their family closeness), out of spite, and because we have gonads instead of morals. In the Clinton years and the early Bush years we started to hear a lot of this stuff, that the people conservatives described as "liberals" were not, as we are in fact, normal people who believe in marriage and family and love their children just as much as conservatives do, but perverts who subscribe to a sort of religion of hedonism.

"Liberals' only remaining big issue is abortion because of their beloved sexual revolution," was the way Ann Coulter put it. "That's their cause – spreading anarchy and polymorphous perversity. Abortion permits that."

So they fought back, and a whole generation of more strident conservative politicians rose to fight the enemy at home, who conveniently during the '90s lived in the White House and occasionally practiced polymorphous perversity there.

Then conservatives managed to elect to the White House a man who was not only a fundamentalist Christian, but a confirmed anti-intellectual who never even thought about visiting Europe until, as president, he was forced to – the perfect champion of all Real Americans!

Surely, things would change now. But they didn’t. Life continued to move drearily into a new and scary future, Spanish-speaking people continued to roll over the border in droves, queers paraded around in public and even demanded the right to be married, and America not only didn't go back to the good old days of the single-breadwinner family, but jobs in general dried up and you were lucky if Mom and Dad weren’t both working two jobs...


Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/bl ... z1nV7zSdjH" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
:clap:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/bl ... t-20120223" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: R.I.P. Republican Party

Post by Skjellyfetti »

Great article. :thumb:

kalm wrote:To paraphrase Winston Churchill, if you're not a liberal when you're younger you have no soul, if you're not a conservative when you're older you have no brains.

Right at the time in my life when I should be sailing comfortably into that conkunism sunset, welcoming the open and rational and (no homo) embrace of the IT's and AZgrizfans of the world, I'm left with a conservative party that is failing miserably.
Churchill never said this. Sail into the conkunism sunset if you wish, but don't do it because of a misattributed quote. ;)

These quotes make for good story-telling but popular myth has falsely attributed them to Churchill.

"Conservative by the time you're 35"

"If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain." There is no record of anyone hearing Churchill say this. Paul Addison of Edinburgh University makes this comment: "Surely Churchill can't have used the words attributed to him. He'd been a Conservative at 15 and a Liberal at 35! And would he have talked so disrespectfully of Clemmie, who is generally thought to have been a lifelong Liberal?"
http://www.winstonchurchill.org/learn/m ... ted-to-him" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: R.I.P. Republican Party

Post by JoltinJoe »

Matt Taibbi is full of it. The real reason that the modern Republican Party has become so extreme is because the modern Democratic party has become so extreme. The reason reason that modern conservatism has become so extreme is because modern liberalism has become so extreme. They have all become mirror opposites of each other.

Modern liberalism is as false a movement as modern conservatism. Liberalism lost its moral high ground when it consciously abandoned it and permitted itself to be co-opted by non-theists and extreme feminists. This caused a great movement, a movement which had depended on the support of the pulpit to win support for civil rights, to lose that support as it advocated extreme positions on church/state issues and abortion on demand. By aligning itself with positions which were morally indefensible, liberalism lost the voices from the pulpit and intentionally moved "forward" without them. In losing these voices, liberalism lost its conscience.

When modern "liberals" -- a term that they have wrongfully co-opted too -- look at the other side of the aisle, they see only their equal opposite. Newton was speaking of physics when he observed that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. But the observation is true in politics too.
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Re: R.I.P. Republican Party

Post by kalm »

JoltinJoe wrote:Matt Taibbi is full of it. The real reason that the modern Republican Party has become so extreme is because the modern Democratic party has become so extreme. The reason reason that modern conservatism has become so extreme is because modern liberalism has become so extreme. They have all become mirror opposites of each other.

Modern liberalism is as false a movement as modern conservatism. Liberalism lost its moral high ground when it consciously abandoned it and permitted itself to be co-opted by non-theists and extreme feminists. This caused a great movement, a movement which had depended on the support of the pulpit to win support for civil rights, to lose that support as it advocated extreme positions on church/state issues and abortion on demand. By aligning itself with positions which were morally indefensible, liberalism lost the voices from the pulpit and intentionally moved "forward" without them. In losing these voices, liberalism lost its conscience.

When modern "liberals" -- a term that they have wrongfully co-opted too -- look at the other side of the aisle, they see only their equal opposite. Newton was speaking of physics when he observed that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. But the observation is true in politics too.
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Re: R.I.P. Republican Party

Post by JoltinJoe »

kalm wrote:
JoltinJoe wrote:Matt Taibbi is full of it. The real reason that the modern Republican Party has become so extreme is because the modern Democratic party has become so extreme. The reason reason that modern conservatism has become so extreme is because modern liberalism has become so extreme. They have all become mirror opposites of each other.

Modern liberalism is as false a movement as modern conservatism. Liberalism lost its moral high ground when it consciously abandoned it and permitted itself to be co-opted by non-theists and extreme feminists. This caused a great movement, a movement which had depended on the support of the pulpit to win support for civil rights, to lose that support as it advocated extreme positions on church/state issues and abortion on demand. By aligning itself with positions which were morally indefensible, liberalism lost the voices from the pulpit and intentionally moved "forward" without them. In losing these voices, liberalism lost its conscience.

When modern "liberals" -- a term that they have wrongfully co-opted too -- look at the other side of the aisle, they see only their equal opposite. Newton was speaking of physics when he observed that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. But the observation is true in politics too.
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Wrong (as usual) kalm. :coffee:

I take your typically evasive and vapid response as proof that you cannot refute a word I said.

Why has the preacher abandoned liberalism? (It's a lot more complicated than a single issue, and the fact that modern liberals try to pass off their loss of the high moral ground as the product of "single issue" voters is a product of their own delusion.)
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Re: R.I.P. Republican Party

Post by kalm »

JoltinJoe wrote:
kalm wrote:
single issue voter
Wrong (as usual) kalm. :coffee:

I take your typically evasive and vapid response as proof that you cannot refute a word I said.

Why has the preacher abandoned liberalism?
I didn't realize she had. And that, quite frankly is a shame as the core principles of liberalism - open mindedness, freedom, love, non-judgementalism are things everyone should agree on. That's not to say that the liberal movement hasn't been hijacked in some regards by militant feminists and nanny state do-gooders from time to time, but just like there's a whole world of silent majority christians who literally practice the Jesus ideals of love, so too is there a silent majority of rational liberals who are moralistic and want to escape the feminization of America through fcs football, cigar bars, and single malt scotch. :nod:
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Re: R.I.P. Republican Party

Post by kalm »

JoltinJoe wrote:
kalm wrote:
single issue voter
Wrong (as usual) kalm. :coffee:

I take your typically evasive and vapid response as proof that you cannot refute a word I said.

Why has the preacher abandoned liberalism? (It's a lot more complicated than a single issue, and the fact that modern liberals try to pass off their loss of the high moral ground as the product of "single issue" voters is a product of their own delusion.)
And my response was spot on which always tends to put your elititism on full display. :kiss wink:

"Why has the preacher abandoned liberalism" deserves it's own thread. You should start it.
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Re: R.I.P. Republican Party

Post by kalm »

Joe, other people leaving their faith doesn't invalidate yours:

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Re: R.I.P. Republican Party

Post by Pwns »

JJ is right, and this article in itself is pot calling the kettle black...the basic message here is the republican party hates you if you aren't a straight male WASP making $200,000 a year or more.

Also, anyone who takes a hard line stance on immigration is just a racist or xenophobe. People who speak up for the rights of the unborn are simply "anti-choice" and want women to remain perpetually pregnant and dependent on their husbands. Voter ID laws simply exist to keep minorities from voting, not dead people. People who think teachers should actually contribute to their pensions and that gym teachers shouldn't make the same salary as Calculus teachers are anti-education and anti-kid. People who think it's more important for kids to learn physics and engineering in high school than evolution are "anti-science religious fanatics". People who refuse to bury their heads in the sand about the demographics and finances of social security simply want to abolish SS altogether. People opposed to single payer don't care about making health care affordable. Wealth is a zero-sum game and if the rich were just taxed more then income disparity would disappear. And on and on and on.
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Re: R.I.P. Republican Party

Post by JoltinJoe »

kalm wrote:
JoltinJoe wrote:
Wrong (as usual) kalm. :coffee:

I take your typically evasive and vapid response as proof that you cannot refute a word I said.

Why has the preacher abandoned liberalism?
I didn't realize she had. And that, quite frankly is a shame as the core principles of liberalism - open mindedness, freedom, love, non-judgementalism are things everyone should agree on. That's not to say that the liberal movement hasn't been hijacked in some regards by militant feminists and nanny state do-gooders from time to time, but just like there's a whole world of silent majority christians who literally practice the Jesus ideals of love, so too is there a silent majority of rational liberals who are moralistic and want to escape the feminization of America through fcs football, cigar bars, and single malt scotch. :nod:
There is no here better than you in using humor to evade losing the debate. How do I respond seriously to something which is this laugh-out-loud funny?

But in a quiet moment, think about why there are some circus clowns running in the GOP primary who currently trail the president within the margin of error of present head-to-head polling.
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Re: R.I.P. Republican Party

Post by kalm »

JoltinJoe wrote:
kalm wrote:
I didn't realize she had. And that, quite frankly is a shame as the core principles of liberalism - open mindedness, freedom, love, non-judgementalism are things everyone should agree on. That's not to say that the liberal movement hasn't been hijacked in some regards by militant feminists and nanny state do-gooders from time to time, but just like there's a whole world of silent majority christians who literally practice the Jesus ideals of love, so too is there a silent majority of rational liberals who are moralistic and want to escape the feminization of America through fcs football, cigar bars, and single malt scotch. :nod:
There is no here better than you in using humor to evade losing the debate. How do I respond seriously to something which is this laugh-out-loud funny?

But in a quiet moment, think about why there are some circus clowns running in the GOP primary who currently trail the president within the margin of error of present head-to-head polling.
Because the president is a liberal? :lol:
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Re: R.I.P. Republican Party

Post by JoltinJoe »

kalm wrote:
JoltinJoe wrote:
Wrong (as usual) kalm. :coffee:

I take your typically evasive and vapid response as proof that you cannot refute a word I said.

Why has the preacher abandoned liberalism? (It's a lot more complicated than a single issue, and the fact that modern liberals try to pass off their loss of the high moral ground as the product of "single issue" voters is a product of their own delusion.)
And my response was spot on which always tends to put your elititism on full display. :kiss wink:

"Why has the preacher abandoned liberalism" deserves it's own thread. You should start it.
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Re: R.I.P. Republican Party

Post by YoUDeeMan »

kalm wrote:I know that I've been negligent on my Matt Taibbi articles lately so to bring you up to speed here is his latest that (I think) pretty much nails it.

As an interesting side note and if you're brave enough, feel free to post whether your political leanings we're left of center in your youth.
:shock:

If you think this article "nails it" then you're living in a different world than reality.

Sure, this article absolutely "nails" what a bunch of self-righteous, angry Liberals think about what they call “Conservatives”, but that says a lot more about the narrow vision of those Liberals than it does about most Conservatives.

As far as my history goes, I grew up being taught that I am responsible for my actions and choices and that my actions and choices will dictate my future and that I should be aware that most people will act in their own self-interest.

Nothing has changed.
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Re: R.I.P. Republican Party

Post by kalm »

Cluck U wrote:
kalm wrote:I know that I've been negligent on my Matt Taibbi articles lately so to bring you up to speed here is his latest that (I think) pretty much nails it.

As an interesting side note and if you're brave enough, feel free to post whether your political leanings we're left of center in your youth.
:shock:

If you think this article "nails it" then you're living in a different world than reality.

Sure, this article absolutely "nails" what a bunch of self-righteous, angry Liberals think about what they call “Conservatives”, but that says a lot more about the narrow vision of those Liberals than it does about most Conservatives.

As far as my history goes, I grew up being taught that I am responsible for my actions and choices and that my actions and choices will dictate my future and that I should be aware that most people will act in their own self-interest.

Nothing has changed.
And I was raised to be thankful for what I have, work hard, be a good person, and that we're all in this together. So there ya have it. :mrgreen:
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Re: R.I.P. Republican Party

Post by Ivytalk »

kalm wrote:
Cluck U wrote:
:shock:

If you think this article "nails it" then you're living in a different world than reality.

Sure, this article absolutely "nails" what a bunch of self-righteous, angry Liberals think about what they call “Conservatives”, but that says a lot more about the narrow vision of those Liberals than it does about most Conservatives.

As far as my history goes, I grew up being taught that I am responsible for my actions and choices and that my actions and choices will dictate my future and that I should be aware that most people will act in their own self-interest.

Nothing has changed.
And I was raised to be thankful for what I have, work hard, be a good person, and that we're all in this together. So there ya have it. :mrgreen:
If that's true, why do you keep quoting divisive maroons like Matt Taibbi? :?
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Re: R.I.P. Republican Party

Post by AZGrizFan »

JoltinJoe wrote:Matt Taibbi is full of it. The real reason that the modern Republican Party has become so extreme is because the modern Democratic party has become so extreme. The reason reason that modern conservatism has become so extreme is because modern liberalism has become so extreme. They have all become mirror opposites of each other.

Modern liberalism is as false a movement as modern conservatism. Liberalism lost its moral high ground when it consciously abandoned it and permitted itself to be co-opted by non-theists and extreme feminists. This caused a great movement, a movement which had depended on the support of the pulpit to win support for civil rights, to lose that support as it advocated extreme positions on church/state issues and abortion on demand. By aligning itself with positions which were morally indefensible, liberalism lost the voices from the pulpit and intentionally moved "forward" without them. In losing these voices, liberalism lost its conscience.

When modern "liberals" -- a term that they have wrongfully co-opted too -- look at the other side of the aisle, they see only their equal opposite. Newton was speaking of physics when he observed that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. But the observation is true in politics too.
I agree that the movements are "false", but to imply that the two developments are connected is irresponsible. I don't think you can prove a cause/effect relationship and I don't believe one has "developed because of the other"....
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Re: R.I.P. Republican Party

Post by kalm »

Ivytalk wrote:
kalm wrote:
And I was raised to be thankful for what I have, work hard, be a good person, and that we're all in this together. So there ya have it. :mrgreen:
If that's true, why do you keep quoting divisive maroons like Matt Taibbi? :?
Because the conservative mindset tends toward the black and white when the world is clearly full of gray. It's like intolerance shown to the intolerant - being divisive towards those who are divisive. Or do you think the Republican party is not divisive?
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Re: R.I.P. Republican Party

Post by Ivytalk »

kalm wrote:
Ivytalk wrote:
If that's true, why do you keep quoting divisive maroons like Matt Taibbi? :?
Because the conservative mindset tends toward the black and white when the world is clearly full of gray. It's like intolerance shown to the intolerant - being divisive towards those who are divisive. Or do you think the Republican party is not divisive?
Do you think the Democrats are "kumbaya" uniters? That's not how your man Obama talks.it's his way or the highway.
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Re: R.I.P. Republican Party

Post by kalm »

Ivytalk wrote:
kalm wrote:
Because the conservative mindset tends toward the black and white when the world is clearly full of gray. It's like intolerance shown to the intolerant - being divisive towards those who are divisive. Or do you think the Republican party is not divisive?
Do you think the Democrats are "kumbaya" uniters? That's not how your man Obama talks.it's his way or the highway.
No, I don't think there's much outreach from either side although I see Obama's "authoritarian" reputation as more reactionary than philosophical. Gannon mentioned it in another thread that Obama is the worst and most divisive president in history, just like Bush was, and just like the next president will be.

So yes, both sides are to blame, but I still think the Republicans are much better at the demonization.
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Re: R.I.P. Republican Party

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote:
Ivytalk wrote:
If that's true, why do you keep quoting divisive maroons like Matt Taibbi? :?
Because the conservative mindset tends toward the black and white when the world is clearly full of gray. It's like intolerance shown to the intolerant - being divisive towards those who are divisive. Or do you think the Republican party is not divisive?
That might be the most retarded thing you've ever posted...and that's saying a LOT. To single out the "conservative mindset' like it's somehow unique in this process is laughable. The hard core liberal is also very black and white, with zero tolerance for the other side's thought processes...but I wouldn't expect you to admit that.
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Re: R.I.P. Republican Party

Post by kalm »

AZGrizFan wrote:
kalm wrote:
Because the conservative mindset tends toward the black and white when the world is clearly full of gray. It's like intolerance shown to the intolerant - being divisive towards those who are divisive. Or do you think the Republican party is not divisive?
That might be the most retarded thing you've ever posted...and that's saying a LOT. To single out the "conservative mindset' like it's somehow unique in this process is laughable. The hard core liberal is also very black and white, with zero tolerance for the other side's thought processes...but I wouldn't expect you to admit that.
Am I painting with a broad brush here? Yes. Was it directed at you personally? No. Are there open-minded conservatives? Yes. Did you skip over the word "tends"? Yes. Are you butt hurt because there's an element of truth here that makes you ashamed to be a conk?... :mrgreen:

I will be the first to admit that liberalism TENDS to be wishy washy, un-organized, and challenging from a leadership standpoint. And certain situations require decisive action. But whether it's religion, jingoism, or helping a brother out, Republicans TEND to have a black and white view. It's just the way it is Z.
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Re: R.I.P. Republican Party

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
That might be the most retarded thing you've ever posted...and that's saying a LOT. To single out the "conservative mindset' like it's somehow unique in this process is laughable. The hard core liberal is also very black and white, with zero tolerance for the other side's thought processes...but I wouldn't expect you to admit that.
Am I painting with a broad brush here? Yes. Was it directed at you personally? No. Are there open-minded conservatives? Yes. Did you skip over the word "tends"? Yes. Are you butt hurt because there's an element of truth here that makes you ashamed to be a conk?... :mrgreen:

I will be the first to admit that liberalism TENDS to be wishy washy, un-organized, and challenging from a leadership standpoint. And certain situations require decisive action. But whether it's religion, jingoism, or helping a brother out, Republicans TEND to have a black and white view. It's just the way it is Z.
Funny. Each of the examples you give are very black and white to libs as well....just white wherever Reps are black, and vice versa. I've never denied the fact there's an element of truth here...YOU aren't willing to admit, apparently, that the same is true for the extremists on the other end of the scale.
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Re: R.I.P. Republican Party

Post by Bronco »

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Obama is black and white
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Re: R.I.P. Republican Party

Post by kalm »

AZGrizFan wrote:
kalm wrote:
Am I painting with a broad brush here? Yes. Was it directed at you personally? No. Are there open-minded conservatives? Yes. Did you skip over the word "tends"? Yes. Are you butt hurt because there's an element of truth here that makes you ashamed to be a conk?... :mrgreen:

I will be the first to admit that liberalism TENDS to be wishy washy, un-organized, and challenging from a leadership standpoint. And certain situations require decisive action. But whether it's religion, jingoism, or helping a brother out, Republicans TEND to have a black and white view. It's just the way it is Z.
Funny. Each of the examples you give are very black and white to libs as well....just white wherever Reps are black, and vice versa. I've never denied the fact there's an element of truth here...YOU aren't willing to admit, apparently, that the same is true for the extremists on the other end of the scale.
Oh no, I will fully admit there are examples of black and white thinking on the other side. Take feminism for example. :ohno: I'm just generalizing here. Conks are more decisive by nature and dons are more nuanced.
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Re: R.I.P. Republican Party

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
Funny. Each of the examples you give are very black and white to libs as well....just white wherever Reps are black, and vice versa. I've never denied the fact there's an element of truth here...YOU aren't willing to admit, apparently, that the same is true for the extremists on the other end of the scale.
Oh no, I will fully admit there are examples of black and white thinking on the other side. Take feminism for example. :ohno: I'm just generalizing here. Conks are more decisive by nature and dons are more nuanced.

Well, why didn't you just say that in the first place. :dunce: :kisswink:
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
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