Page 1 of 8
Pope Francis Smacks Trickle Down
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:46 am
by kalm
Good for him. Dude seems fairly progressive.
This won't make Ganny happy at all.
Pope Francis, who has made alleviating poverty a central pillar of his papacy, criticized the “idolatry of money” in the global economy and denounced the unfettered free market as the “new tyranny.”
“How can it be that it is not a news item when an elderly homeless person dies of exposure, but it is news when the stock market loses 2 points?” Pope Francis asked in an anticipated 84-page report airing the views of the Vatican, known as the apostolic exhortation and released Tuesday.
Read more: Pope Francis Denounces Absolute Free Market in Vatican Document | TIME.com
http://world.time.com/2013/11/26/pope-f ... z2lrDWKUzK" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
No to an economy of exclusion
53. Just as the commandment “Thou shalt not kill” sets a clear limit in order to safeguard the value of human life, today we also have to say “thou shalt not” to an economy of exclusion and inequality. Such an economy kills. How can it be that it is not a news item when an elderly homeless person dies of exposure, but it is news when the stock market loses two points? This is a case of exclusion. Can we continue to stand by when food is thrown away while people are starving? This is a case of inequality. Today everything comes under the laws of competition and the survival of the fittest, where the powerful feed upon the powerless. As a consequence, masses of people find themselves excluded and marginalized: without work, without possibilities, without any means of escape.
Human beings are themselves considered consumer goods to be used and then discarded. We have created a “disposable” culture which is now spreading. It is no longer simply about exploitation and oppression, but something new. Exclusion ultimately has to do with what it means to be a part of the society in which we live; those excluded are no longer society’s underside or its fringes or its disenfranchised – they are no longer even a part of it. The excluded are not the “exploited” but the outcast, the “leftovers”.
54. In this context, some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world. This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power and in the sacralized workings of the prevailing economic system. Meanwhile, the excluded are still waiting. To sustain a lifestyle which excludes others, or to sustain enthusiasm for that selfish ideal, a globalization of indifference has developed. Almost without being aware of it, we end up being incapable of feeling compassion at the outcry of the poor, weeping for other people’s pain, and feeling a need to help them, as though all this were someone else’s responsibility and not our own. The culture of prosperity deadens us; we are thrilled if the market offers us something new to purchase; and in the meantime all those lives stunted for lack of opportunity seem a mere spectacle; they fail to move us.
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/franc ... _exclusion" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Pope Francis Smacks Trickle Down
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:05 am
by D1B
Yeah, this is great, but the church is thoroughly conk in its actions. They support conservative politicians who value Ayn Rand vs Jesus Christ and spend millions lobbying government on these same conk's social issues like gay marriage and abortion. The Catholic Church was criminally silent on ACA because it could hurt their health care empire and profits.
This is yet another example of the church loudly proclaiming noble ideals but secretly undermining them in their vigorous pursuit of profits and power. They're no different than the Koch brothers, Blackstone or Goldman Sachs.
Re: Pope Francis Smacks Trickle Down
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:15 am
by kalm
D1B wrote:Yeah, this is great, but the church is thoroughly conk in its actions. They support conservative politicians who value Ayn Rand vs Jesus Christ and spend millions lobbying government on these same conk's social issues like gay marriage and abortion. The Catholic Church was criminally silent on ACA because it could hurt their health care empire and profits.
This is yet another example of the church loudly proclaiming noble ideals but secretly undermining them in their vigorous pursuit of profits and power. They're no different than the Koch brothers, Blackstone or Goldman Sachs.
Paul Ryan being the shining example of this. But isn't it more of an american phenomenon?
Re: Pope Francis Smacks Trickle Down
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:40 am
by Baldy
D1B wrote:Yeah, this is great, but the church is thoroughly conk in its actions. They support conservative politicians who value Ayn Rand vs Jesus Christ and spend millions lobbying government on these same conk's social issues like gay marriage and abortion. The Catholic Church was criminally silent on ACA because it could hurt their health care empire and profits.
This is yet another example of the church loudly proclaiming noble ideals but secretly undermining them in their vigorous pursuit of profits and power. They're no different than the Koch brothers, Blackstone or Goldman Sachs.
Though Goldman Sachs is dyed in the wool Donk...as is Google, Microsoft, Apple, Berkshire Hathaway, Amazon, Comcast, Viacom, etc, etc, etc......

Re: Pope Francis Smacks Trickle Down
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:47 am
by D1B
kalm wrote:D1B wrote:Yeah, this is great, but the church is thoroughly conk in its actions. They support conservative politicians who value Ayn Rand vs Jesus Christ and spend millions lobbying government on these same conk's social issues like gay marriage and abortion. The Catholic Church was criminally silent on ACA because it could hurt their health care empire and profits.
This is yet another example of the church loudly proclaiming noble ideals but secretly undermining them in their vigorous pursuit of profits and power. They're no different than the Koch brothers, Blackstone or Goldman Sachs.
Paul Ryan being the shining example of this. But isn't it more of an american phenomenon?
What do you mean by an "american phenomenon?"
The Church (along with labor unions) used to be one of the lone pillars of support for the poor and working classes, but thanks to their myopic focus on social issues and pursuit of profit, this is no longer the case.
The poor, working class and the middles class are royally fucked right now. They have no voice in the political process as all of our reps have been bought out by hedge fund oligarchs, finance CEOs and dirty energy. These wealthy elite have destroyed labor unions (Koch Brothers) and convinced the middle class that the poor/welfare are the root of all their problems when really it's them. They bitch and moan about the measly handouts to the poor, many of whom are elderly, children or handicapped, yet they enjoy unprecedented tax breaks and government welfare in the trillions of dollars.
People like Baldy, Z, BDSHTSMRER ought to be ashamed as they've been thoroughly fucked in the ass by the 1% and have turned into nothing but bleating puppets who villify the poor so the 1% can rob everyone.
The church too should be embarrassed. I hope this pope is serious because IMO they are the only entity with enough power to save the middle class and the poor from the Paul Ryan's and Koch Brothers of the world.
Re: Pope Francis Smacks Trickle Down
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:51 am
by D1B
Baldy wrote:D1B wrote:Yeah, this is great, but the church is thoroughly conk in its actions. They support conservative politicians who value Ayn Rand vs Jesus Christ and spend millions lobbying government on these same conk's social issues like gay marriage and abortion. The Catholic Church was criminally silent on ACA because it could hurt their health care empire and profits.
This is yet another example of the church loudly proclaiming noble ideals but secretly undermining them in their vigorous pursuit of profits and power. They're no different than the Koch brothers, Blackstone or Goldman Sachs.
Though Goldman Sachs is dyed in the wool Donk...as is Google, Microsoft, Apple, Berkshire Hathaway, Amazon, Comcast, Viacom, etc, etc, etc......

Who cares? The church is donk, right? My point is, ultimately, based on their ACTIONS, they're thoroughly dyed in the wool conk.
Re: Pope Francis Smacks Trickle Down
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:48 am
by Baldy
D1B wrote:Baldy wrote:
Though Goldman Sachs is dyed in the wool Donk...as is Google, Microsoft, Apple, Berkshire Hathaway, Amazon, Comcast, Viacom, etc, etc, etc......

Who cares? The church is donk, right? My point is, ultimately, based on their ACTIONS, they're thoroughly dyed in the wool conk.
Sounds like you're beginning to learn a lesson about your Donk friends...

Re: Pope Francis Smacks Trickle Down
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:51 am
by D1B
Baldy wrote:D1B wrote:
Who cares? The church is donk, right? My point is, ultimately, based on their ACTIONS, they're thoroughly dyed in the wool conk.
Sounds like you're beginning to learn a lesson about your Donk friends...

They're conks. Dyed in the wool-conks.
Re: Pope Francis Smacks Trickle Down
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:05 am
by Baldy
D1B wrote:Baldy wrote:
Sounds like you're beginning to learn a lesson about your Donk friends...

They're conks. Dyed in the wool-conks.
Sure, that's why they are idolized by you so-called Donk "progressives".

Re: Pope Francis Smacks Trickle Down
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:09 am
by D1B
Baldy wrote:D1B wrote:Yeah, this is great, but the church is thoroughly conk in its actions. They support conservative politicians who value Ayn Rand vs Jesus Christ and spend millions lobbying government on these same conk's social issues like gay marriage and abortion. The Catholic Church was criminally silent on ACA because it could hurt their health care empire and profits.
This is yet another example of the church loudly proclaiming noble ideals but secretly undermining them in their vigorous pursuit of profits and power. They're no different than the Koch brothers, Blackstone or Goldman Sachs.
Though Goldman Sachs is dyed in the wool Donk...
Another Baldy lie:
http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary ... d000000085" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Goldman Sachs Top Recipients
Total From Indivs From Orgs
Republican National Cmte $1,182,160 $1,182,160
Romney, Mitt $1,041,454 $1,041,454
Restore Our Future $885,000 $885,000
National Republican Senatorial Cmte $812,500 $782,500 $30,000
DNC Services Corp $549,614 $549,614
National Republican Congressional Cmte $523,650 $493,650 $30,000
Obama, Barack $210,285 $210,285
League of Conservation Voters $125,000 $125,000
Brown, Scott $105,050 $98,050 $7,000
Gillibrand, Kirsten $89,700 $79,700 $10,000
Top Candidate Recipients, 2011-2012
Mitt Romney (R) $1,041,454
Barack Obama (D) $210,285
Scott Brown (R-MA) $105,050
Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY) $89,700
Christopher D. Meek (R-CT) $69,360
Typical lying ass conk - Baldy.

Re: Pope Francis Smacks Trickle Down
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:10 am
by D1B
Baldy wrote:D1B wrote:
They're conks. Dyed in the wool-conks.
Sure, that's why they are idolized by you so-called Donk "progressives".

Don't know what the fucking you're talking about. Plus, I'm done with you. You aint honest - there's no sense debating a liar.
Re: Pope Francis Smacks Trickle Down
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:47 am
by Cap'n Cat
Re: Pope Francis Smacks Trickle Down
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:31 am
by 89Hen
D1B wrote:Who cares? The church is donk, right?
The members of the Catholic Church are pretty much 50/50. You know that.
Re: Pope Francis Smacks Trickle Down
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:40 am
by kalm
89Hen wrote:D1B wrote:Who cares? The church is donk, right?
The members of the Catholic Church are pretty much 50/50. You know that.
And today's American donks are about 50-50 conk.

Re: Pope Francis Smacks Trickle Down
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:43 am
by 89Hen
kalm wrote:89Hen wrote:
The members of the Catholic Church are pretty much 50/50. You know that.
And today's American donks are about 50-50 conk.


Re: Pope Francis Smacks Trickle Down
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:13 pm
by JoltinJoe
I knew from day one that a Jesuit pope -- especially one from South America -- was going to be influenced by Liberation Theology. When I first heard that the College of Cardinals had selected a Jesuit to be pope, I was absolutely amazed.
I had many Jesuits in college who advocated Liberation Theology and were troubled by John Paul's position that it was "too political." John Paul, of course, lived most of his life as a member of an oppressed Church, first by the Nazis and then by the Soviets, and did not trust government or politics. That a College of Cardinals, largely appointed by John Paul, chose someone who no doubt would have been influenced by Liberation Theology -- since it was so prominent in South America in the late 1970s and 1980s -- was remarkable.
For the first time in a generation, we have a pope who did not grow up as a member of an oppressed Church. Francis does not have a "circle the wagon" mentality of his immediate predecessors, who viewed the Church as at odds and oppressed by political authority.
I am proud of this Jesuit pope. He reminds me of those Jesuits I had who helped me find meaning in religious faith.
I am really pleased that these ideas, long brewing in the hearts of the faithful, have percolated to the top.
Re: Pope Francis Smacks Trickle Down
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:23 pm
by CitadelGrad
Francis speaks of unfettered free markets. I'd like him to tell me where unfettered free markets exist in the world.
Fuck Francis. He's talking out of his ass.
Re: Pope Francis Smacks Trickle Down
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:39 pm
by D1B
JoltinJoe wrote:
I am really pleased that these ideas, long brewing in the hearts of the faithful, have percolated to the top.
Agree with much of what you say, except this. "long brewing" my ass. The "Faithful" have been exactly that, faithful, to the wims of a morally corrupt cabal of gay men hell bent on protecting an opulent lifestyle. The catholic faithful are exactly what your leaders wanted you to be - clueless.
And "percolate to the top"!? Your previous pope, a tyrant of a criminal just like The Pedophile's Pope - JPII, resigned in disgrace because he failed to address the fact that your bishops, cardinals, priests, deacons, nuns and lay workers pretty much ran a child rape and abuse racket on a global scale. The gay cabal reluctantly chose Francis, because they HAD TO - he was the cleanest and most distant, not because any sense of right or wrong or justice "percolated to the top." You got to be kidding me, Joe.

Re: Pope Francis Smacks Trickle Down
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:29 pm
by JoltinJoe
D1B wrote:JoltinJoe wrote:
I am really pleased that these ideas, long brewing in the hearts of the faithful, have percolated to the top.
Agree with much of what you say, except this. "long brewing" my ass. The "Faithful" have been exactly that, faithful, to the wims of a morally corrupt cabal of gay men hell bent on protecting an opulent lifestyle. The catholic faithful are exactly what your leaders wanted you to be - clueless.
And "percolate to the top"!? Your previous pope, a tyrant of a criminal just like The Pedophile's Pope - JPII, resigned in disgrace because he failed to address the fact that your bishops, cardinals, priests, deacons, nuns and lay workers pretty much ran a child rape and abuse racket on a global scale. The gay cabal reluctantly chose Francis, because they HAD TO - he was the cleanest and most distant, not because any sense of right or wrong or justice "percolated to the top." You got to be kidding me, Joe.

Uh ... thanks ... uh ... for agreeing with me.

Re: Pope Francis Smacks Trickle Down
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:29 pm
by JohnStOnge
What an idiotic outlook. You know, I've got two brothers who are both devout Catholics and I'd already told both of them that this guy is whacked.
It's the same old thing: There's this outlook whereby somebody thinks that there is this big pile of wealth out there that just intrinsically exists and is being distributed inequitably. It's total fallacy.
Re: Pope Francis Smacks Trickle Down
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:33 pm
by kalm
JohnStOnge wrote:What an idiotic set of statements. You know, I've got two brothers who are both devout Catholics and I'd already told both of them that this guy is whacked.
Do you think Jesus was whacked?
Re: Pope Francis Smacks Trickle Down
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:40 pm
by JohnStOnge
kalm wrote:JohnStOnge wrote:What an idiotic set of statements. You know, I've got two brothers who are both devout Catholics and I'd already told both of them that this guy is whacked.
Do you think Jesus was whacked?
Jesus is not reported as saying stuff like that. Jesus is reported to have talked about each person having a personal responsibility to help the poor if that person wanted to enter the kingdom of Heaven. He did not talk about how there was this big unjust system where there was this big pile of wealth handed down by God that was supposed to be divided in some equitable way among all people.
Bill Gates is a Liberal. I will nevertheless use him as an example. Bill Gates accumulated a lot of wealth. Do you think the poor would be notably better off if Bill Gates had never been born because he would not have "taken" all the wealth he has? That's a rhetorical question. The answer is "no." Of course not.
The poor are not poor because other people are wealthy.
Re: Pope Francis Smacks Trickle Down
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:45 pm
by BlueHen86
kalm wrote:JohnStOnge wrote:What an idiotic set of statements. You know, I've got two brothers who are both devout Catholics and I'd already told both of them that this guy is whacked.
Do you think Jesus was whacked?
Yeah. By the Romans.
Re: Pope Francis Smacks Trickle Down
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:55 pm
by JohnStOnge
Here is the bottom line on the Jesus character in the Bible:
The Jesus character in the Bible wasn't about telling people to worry about the prevalent economic system and how that impacted the poor. He was about saying if YOU want to enter my Father's Kingdom YOU take care of the poor. YOU personally. He wasn't about telling people to worry about whether or not the rich guy down the street did stuff to help the poor. He wasn't about saying there was some problem with the economic system. He wasn't about saying there was some kind of big pile of wealth out there that you had to make sure was distributed equitably.
He was about what YOU personally do.
Re: Pope Francis Smacks Trickle Down
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:13 pm
by kalm
JohnStOnge wrote:Here is the bottom line on the Jesus character in the Bible:
The Jesus character in the Bible wasn't about telling people to worry about the prevalent economic system and how that impacted the poor. He was about saying if YOU want to enter my Father's Kingdom YOU take care of the poor. YOU personally. He wasn't about telling people to worry about whether or not the rich guy down the street did stuff to help the poor. He wasn't about saying there was some problem with the economic system. He wasn't about saying there was some kind of big pile of wealth out there that you had to make sure was distributed equitably.
He was about what YOU personally do.
I'm gonna go WAY out on a limb here and suggest the pope understands Jesus a little better than you .