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On December 1, a press release went out from the New York-based Satanic Temple, offering “to donate a public monument to Oklahoma’s Capitol Preservation Commission for display upon Oklahoma City’s capitol grounds.” The group pitched the monument as “an homage” to Satan, meant “to complement and contrast the Ten Commandments monument that already resides on the North side of the building.” As temple founder and spokesman Lucien Greaves elaborated, “Allowing us to donate a monument would show that the Oklahoma City Council does not discriminate, and both the religious and non-religious should be happy with such an outcome.”

The news that Satanists were launching a Christmastime assault in the buckle of the Bible belt—under the guise of religious freedom, no less—prompted precisely the national buzzfest you’d expect. Everyone was shaking their heads: some in outrage, others in amusement. Rep. Ritze regretfully informed me that, on the advice of counsel, he could not comment on the matter. By contrast, his fellow lawmakers have been vigorously denouncing the Satanists as something between nutjobs and jokers.

Which is precisely what the Satanic Temple was aiming for.

To clarify, the Satanic Temple is neither satanic nor a temple in any commonly understood sense. Its members do not worship dark forces nor conduct mysterious rituals in shadowy chambers. The group, in fact, rejects the whole idea of the supernatural and holds among its core principles, as Greaves (himself an atheist) explains in a phone interview, a respect for “individual independence, personal sovereignty, and a pursuit of knowledge.”........

Currently, the Satanic Temple’s core membership (around 10 people, estimates Greaves) is reviewing design options for the proposed monument and plans to unveil its final pick within the week—quite possibly on live TV. Greaves says he’s rooting for his own design, which features an interactive display aimed at showing kids the “fun” side of Satanism. (Nope. No intent to provoke there)

kalm wrote:

The group pitched the monument as “an homage” to Satan,

To clarify, the Satanic Temple is neither satanic nor a temple in any commonly understood sense. Its members do not worship dark forces nor conduct mysterious rituals in shadowy chambers.

89Hen wrote:

kalm wrote:

You're wondering how somebody can object to a group of 10 people putting up a statue who's only purpose is to denegrate another large group of people? Seriously Kalm?

kalm wrote:

89Hen wrote: You're wondering how somebody can object to a group of 10 people putting up a statue who's only purpose is to denegrate another large group of people? Seriously Kalm?

Tyranny of the majority! Why do you hate freedom of religion?

89Hen wrote:

kalm wrote:
Tyranny of the majority! Why do you hate freedom of religion?

They are not expressing their religion. They don't worship satan. Why would you let them put up a statue of satan?

89Hen wrote:

kalm wrote:
Tyranny of the majority! Why do you hate freedom of religion?

They are not expressing their religion. They don't worship satan. Why would you let them put up a statue of satan?

kalm wrote:Tyranny of the majority!

kalm wrote:

89Hen wrote: They are not expressing their religion. They don't worship satan. Why would you let them put up a statue of satan?

Are you sure all those christians really worship Christ. Who are you to say?

But I wouldn't...for the same reason I wouldn't have allowed the ten commandments.

89Hen wrote:

kalm wrote:
Are you sure all those christians really worship Christ. Who are you to say?

But I wouldn't...for the same reason I wouldn't have allowed the ten commandments.

Give it up Kalm. You whiffed on this one.

kalm wrote:

89Hen wrote: Give it up Kalm. You whiffed on this one.

Oh uh...ran out of smarm so you're declaring victory?

Would you have allowed the 10 commandments, Hen?

kalm wrote:

89Hen wrote: Give it up Kalm. You whiffed on this one.

Oh uh...ran out of smarm so you're declaring victory?

Would you have allowed the 10 commandments, Hen?

89Hen wrote:

kalm wrote:
Oh uh...ran out of smarm so you're declaring victory?

Would you have allowed the 10 commandments, Hen?

Dude, you are almost always on your game but this was a complete whiff. I would allow the 10 commandments if the Koran, a menorah, whetever represents Kwanzaa... are also allowed if those groups would like them up and do whatever is needed to put them up (permit, etc.). These folks don't worship satan. They wanted to put that up as an attack on another religion, you really can't dispute that, that's what they said themselves. I don't know if you're just being stubborn here.

89Hen wrote:

kalm wrote:
Oh uh...ran out of smarm so you're declaring victory?

Would you have allowed the 10 commandments, Hen?

Dude, you are almost always on your game but this was a complete whiff. I would allow the 10 commandments if the Koran, a menorah, whetever represents Kwanzaa... are also allowed if those groups would like them up and do whatever is needed to put them up (permit, etc.). These folks don't worship satan. They wanted to put that up as an attack on another religion, you really can't dispute that, that's what they said themselves. I don't know if you're just being stubborn here.

D1B wrote:

kalm wrote:
Oh uh...ran out of smarm so you're declaring victory?

Would you have allowed the 10 commandments, Hen?

Never happen with that asshole.

kalm wrote:

89Hen wrote: Dude, you are almost always on your game but this was a complete whiff. I would allow the 10 commandments if the Koran, a menorah, whetever represents Kwanzaa... are also allowed if those groups would like them up and do whatever is needed to put them up (permit, etc.). These folks don't worship satan. They wanted to put that up as an attack on another religion, you really can't dispute that, that's what they said themselves. I don't know if you're just being stubborn here.

So who gets to decide what constitutes worship?

D1B wrote:

89Hen wrote: Dude, you are almost always on your game but this was a complete whiff. I would allow the 10 commandments if the Koran, a menorah, whetever represents Kwanzaa... are also allowed if those groups would like them up and do whatever is needed to put them up (permit, etc.). These folks don't worship satan. They wanted to put that up as an attack on another religion, you really can't dispute that, that's what they said themselves. I don't know if you're just being stubborn here.

Hen knows what other people worship.

D1B wrote:Most christians don't worship christ, especially Catholics.

GannonFan wrote:

D1B wrote:
Hen knows what other people worship.

Didn't you just do the same a few posts ago in this thread when you said

D1B wrote:Most christians don't worship christ, especially Catholics.

Do you get to be the pot or the kettle?

D1B wrote:

kalm wrote:
So who gets to decide what constitutes worship?

Oh, the almighty 89Hen does.

To clarify, the Satanic Temple is neither satanic nor a temple in any commonly understood sense. Its members do not worship dark forces nor conduct mysterious rituals in shadowy chambers. The group, in fact, rejects the whole idea of the supernatural

D1B wrote:Sure did, but then backed it up.

89Hen wrote:

D1B wrote:Sure did, but then backed it up.

Backed it up with what?!? The fact the Christians pray to saints and others as a part of their faith? I know that you know a lot about Christianity and Catholicism, but you seem to have selectively grown dim over this one.

89Hen wrote:

D1B wrote:
Oh, the almighty 89Hen does.

To clarify, the Satanic Temple is neither satanic nor a temple in any commonly understood sense. Its members do not worship dark forces nor conduct mysterious rituals in shadowy chambers. The group, in fact, rejects the whole idea of the supernatural

You guys crack me up.

D1B wrote:

89Hen wrote: Backed it up with what?!? The fact the Christians pray to saints and others as a part of their faith? I know that you know a lot about Christianity and Catholicism, but you seem to have selectively grown dim over this one.

Pray to? What the fuck are saints or popes gonna do?

Get your shit straight and pray to Jesus.

I can't believe I had to tell you that.

kalm wrote:Answer my question...

Who gets to decide what qualifies as a legit religion? What is the criteria?

D1B wrote:

89Hen wrote: Backed it up with what?!? The fact the Christians pray to saints and others as a part of their faith? I know that you know a lot about Christianity and Catholicism, but you seem to have selectively grown dim over this one.

Pray to? What the fuck are saints or popes gonna do?

Get your shit straight and pray to Jesus.

I can't believe I had to tell you that.