And once again, the US isn't pushing NATO anywhere near as much as individual sovereign nations that aren't the US or Russia are making their own decisions on how to protect their countries from assault and annihilation. The Baltic countries weren't wined and dined by the US to join NATO, they did it on their own volition because they didn't want the threat of subjugation from a hostile neighbor hanging over their heads. Same has been the case for literally everyone else in NATO.SeattleGriz wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:04 pmI can't speak for anyone but myself, but for starters I feel the US really pushed the boundary with Putin and he has reacted to that. I've quoted a fair amount of articles in which the US promised, "not one inch further" towards Russia with troops and NATO, but didn't keep that promise. Your word is your word. I also advocated for discussions to diffuse, but we obviously didn't go that route.bobbythekidd wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:59 pm
Then I must be reading this thread a few pages in, incorrectly. What's the narrative that is the problem?
In addition, the whole Putin was going to do this or that is all without basis. Very similar to what you said the other day when nobody on this board, or in the media was in on the Russian operational plan. Not specifically Russia, but you understand what I mean.
Lastly, the fact that Russia is absolutely clobbering Ukraine via an artillery war. Some think Russia is losing.
What pisses Russia off and why they have launched this completely unprovoked attack on Ukraine (like they did 8 years ago when they stole Crimea) is that they want to have control over satellite countries near them - they want to pick the government and the leaders and the other levers of power in those countries and when they can't, because those countries decided on their own what type of country they want and how they want to live, they get angry. There's a lot of graft and other perks you get from pulling the reins in another country. There's no offensive threat from NATO. There's no danger to Russia or Russia's sovereignty that other countries near them could opt to join a defensive alliance that prevents Russia (or at least deters them) from invading them. There's no ambiguity here, Russia is clearly the aggressor and clearly in the wrong.