The Ukraine Crisis

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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by kalm »

Skjellyfetti wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 6:05 pm
kalm wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 3:15 pm

It’s like you’re following a different war or something… :lol:
War?

He even calls it a "special operation" as his handlers have groomed him to say
Oh shit…great observation. :lol:
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by UNI88 »

UNI88 wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:29 pm
SDHornet wrote:
If they want all of Ukraine they'll just take it in the coming months unless NATO sends in troops...
Months? Ukrainians have nothing to lose, they'll drag this out for years if the Russian fascists keep pushing.

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SD, how about an avatar or hat bet? If all of Ukraine falls before the end of the year, you get to pick my avatar or I will send you a UNI hat. If Ukraine doesn't fall, I get to pick your avatar or you send me a Sac State hat.

SG, same offer but a Jizz hat?
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by SeattleGriz »

UNI88 wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 8:06 pm
UNI88 wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:29 pm Months? Ukrainians have nothing to lose, they'll drag this out for years if the Russian fascists keep pushing.

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SD, how about an avatar or hat bet? If all of Ukraine falls before the end of the year, you get to pick my avatar or I will send you a UNI hat. If Ukraine doesn't fall, I get to pick your avatar or you send me a Sac State hat.

SG, same offer but a Jizz hat?
I don't know if ALL of Ukraine will fall by end of year, but hell ya! I'll give it a whirl. It's a bet.
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by SeattleGriz »

Skjellyfetti wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 6:05 pm
kalm wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 3:15 pm

It’s like you’re following a different war or something… :lol:
War?

He even calls it a "special operation" as his handlers have groomed him to say
You do know there is a difference in the terms don't you?
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by kalm »

SeattleGriz wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:37 am
Skjellyfetti wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 6:05 pm

War?

He even calls it a "special operation" as his handlers have groomed him to say
You do know there is a difference in the terms don't you?
Educate us.
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by SeattleGriz »

kalm wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:46 am
SeattleGriz wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:37 am

You do know there is a difference in the terms don't you?
Educate us.
A special operation tries to limit infrastructure damage and civilian deaths. Essentially trying to just remove enemy forces. In war, the gloves are taken off.

Don't you find it odd that internet communications have been up since the start. Call it war lite if you like, but if you can't see the difference in how Russia is going after Ukraine, versus how the US handled Iraq, I can't help you.
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by kalm »

SeattleGriz wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 7:18 am
kalm wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:46 am

Educate us.
A special operation tries to limit infrastructure damage and civilian deaths. Essentially trying to just remove enemy forces. In war, the gloves are taken off.

Don't you find it odd that internet communications have been up since the start. Call it war lite if you like, but if you can't see the difference in how Russia is going after Ukraine, versus how the US handled Iraq, I can't help you.
Jesus man. Since you assured us you aren’t rolling…



It’s still like you’re watching a different war.

:|
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by SeattleGriz »

kalm wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 7:33 am
SeattleGriz wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 7:18 am

A special operation tries to limit infrastructure damage and civilian deaths. Essentially trying to just remove enemy forces. In war, the gloves are taken off.

Don't you find it odd that internet communications have been up since the start. Call it war lite if you like, but if you can't see the difference in how Russia is going after Ukraine, versus how the US handled Iraq, I can't help you.
Jesus man. Since you assured us you aren’t rolling…



It’s still like you’re watching a different war.

:|
I realize it doesn't make it any better, but there is a distinction. Russia could easily make it A LOT more ugly. Why do you think NATO doesn't want to be caught pushing this any further? Rules change if war is declared.
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by kalm »

SeattleGriz wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 7:41 am
kalm wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 7:33 am

Jesus man. Since you assured us you aren’t rolling…



It’s still like you’re watching a different war.

:|
I realize it doesn't make it any better, but there is a distinction. Russia could easily make it A LOT more ugly. Why do you think NATO doesn't want to be caught pushing this any further? Rules change if war is declared.
There are rules?
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by SeattleGriz »

kalm wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:08 am
SeattleGriz wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 7:41 am

I realize it doesn't make it any better, but there is a distinction. Russia could easily make it A LOT more ugly. Why do you think NATO doesn't want to be caught pushing this any further? Rules change if war is declared.
There are rules?
Sure. Why do you think NATO countries won't supply aircraft or certain weapons? Because it opens them up to military strikes.

I do think this whole situation sucks, but I've been well past the point of putting a Ukraine flag on my profile and saying,"I'm helping and Putin is a meany".

I want to know how we all got to this point and how it can be averted in the future.
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by kalm »

SeattleGriz wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:22 am
kalm wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:08 am

There are rules?
Sure. Why do you think NATO countries won't supply aircraft or certain weapons? Because it opens them up to military strikes.

I do think this whole situation sucks, but I've been well past the point of putting a Ukraine flag on my profile and saying,"I'm helping and Putin is a meany".

I want to know how we all got to this point and how it can be averted in the future.
I don’t have a UKR flag either, nor am I helping. But Putin is the bad guy here. You do realize that and hope UKR successfully defends their country, right?

There are consequences of actions and non action. There are no rules.
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by SeattleGriz »

kalm wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:56 am
SeattleGriz wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:22 am

Sure. Why do you think NATO countries won't supply aircraft or certain weapons? Because it opens them up to military strikes.

I do think this whole situation sucks, but I've been well past the point of putting a Ukraine flag on my profile and saying,"I'm helping and Putin is a meany".

I want to know how we all got to this point and how it can be averted in the future.
I don’t have a UKR flag either, nor am I helping. But Putin is the bad guy here. You do realize that and hope UKR successfully defends their country, right?

There are consequences of actions and non action. There are no rules.
So, is Biden the bad guy for sending our military into Syria? How about capturing Iranian oil vessels? Is that good or bad?

Just trying to see what is right and wrong here.
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by kalm »

SeattleGriz wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:17 am
kalm wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:56 am

I don’t have a UKR flag either, nor am I helping. But Putin is the bad guy here. You do realize that and hope UKR successfully defends their country, right?

There are consequences of actions and non action. There are no rules.
So, is Biden the bad guy for sending our military into Syria? How about capturing Iranian oil vessels? Is that good or bad?

Just trying to see what is right and wrong here.
Answer my question first, then I’ll answer yours.
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by SeattleGriz »

kalm wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:33 am
SeattleGriz wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:17 am

So, is Biden the bad guy for sending our military into Syria? How about capturing Iranian oil vessels? Is that good or bad?

Just trying to see what is right and wrong here.
Answer my question first, then I’ll answer yours.
:lol: The ol Klam "purity" test before you'll give an answer!

I've already said Putin bears blame, but in all honesty believe this could have been prevented with much better diplomacy on the American side. Remember Fuck the EU?

So let's hear it. Where does America sit on the good bad scale for all their actions?
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by kalm »

SeattleGriz wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:36 am
kalm wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:33 am

Answer my question first, then I’ll answer yours.
:lol: The ol Klam "purity" test before you'll give an answer!

I've already said Putin bears blame, but in all honesty believe this could have been prevented with much better diplomacy on the American side. Remember Fuck the EU?

So let's hear it. Where does America sit on the good bad scale for all their actions?
Not a purity test at all. Sorry you’re feeling impure.

America sadly sits somewhere near the middle I suppose. Part of that for both good and bad results from having a military capable of projecting power on multiple fronts simultaneously across the world.

In this large instance we’re thankfully on the good side.
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by SeattleGriz »

kalm wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:54 am
SeattleGriz wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:36 am

:lol: The ol Klam "purity" test before you'll give an answer!

I've already said Putin bears blame, but in all honesty believe this could have been prevented with much better diplomacy on the American side. Remember Fuck the EU?

So let's hear it. Where does America sit on the good bad scale for all their actions?
Not a purity test at all. Sorry you’re feeling impure.

America sadly sits somewhere near the middle I suppose. Part of that for both good and bad results from having a military capable of projecting power on multiple fronts simultaneously across the world.

In this large instance we’re thankfully on the good side.
I still believe that as well, but why are we projecting military power on other sovereign nations that have not attacked us? Isn't that what everyone is saying about Putin?
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by kalm »

SeattleGriz wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 10:03 am
kalm wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:54 am

Not a purity test at all. Sorry you’re feeling impure.

America sadly sits somewhere near the middle I suppose. Part of that for both good and bad results from having a military capable of projecting power on multiple fronts simultaneously across the world.

In this large instance we’re thankfully on the good side.
I still believe that as well, but why are we projecting military power on other sovereign nations that have not attacked us? Isn't that what everyone is saying about Putin?
That first one is a fine question and worthy of its own thread.
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by Winterborn »

Several interesting tidbits in this story. The potential of freezing ones voters to death tends to make politicians feel a bit nervous about their careers I would think. The rock met the hard place and reality hopefully will win. :coffee:
It’s not as though Germany didn’t get warned about their reliance on cheap Russian energy. The US went so far as to sanction the Nordstream 2 project in order to disincentivize Germany from expanding their addiction to Vladimir Putin’s natural gas, but Gerhard Schroeder and Angela Merkel proceeded to shut down coal generation and nuclear plants to gain points with the Greens. (Not to mention Schroeder’s point-scoring with Putin, who repaid him literally with a high-salary position at Gazprom.)

Now that Putin’s imperialism has come to its full fruition, Germany can no longer afford to pander to the environmentalists. Today, the New York Times reports that Berlin will order the restart of its coal-fueled electrical generation plants as natural gas reserves run low:
Germany will restart coal-fired power plants in order to conserve natural gas, the country’s economy minister announced on Sunday, amid concerns about a looming supply shortage after Russia cut gas deliveries to Europe this week.

The move was part of a series of measures, including new incentives for companies to burn less natural gas, announced by Germany as Europe takes steps to deal with reduced energy supplies from Russia. …

Germany has relied heavily on energy imports from Russia for decades. Last year, Russian imports accounted for 55 percent of the country’s natural gas supply. But after Moscow’s Feb. 24 invasion of Ukraine, Berlin began purchasing gas from Norway, the United States and the United Arab Emirates, reducing its purchases from Russia by about 20 percent.


There’s nothing funny about the hole Germany has dug for itself, economically and strategically. Germany has largely funded Russian imperialism under Vladimir Putin by relying on Russia’s cheap energy exports. That situation should have changed in 2014, when Putin first invaded and seized Crimea and his proxies grabbed large portions of the Donbas. One could have excused Merkel and Germany for blithely missing the signals sent by Putin’s 2008 invasion of Georgia, but by 2014 Putin’s naked imperialism was clear for all to see.

...

Germany faces a stark choice. They can either become a vassal of Putin by remaining addicted to his energy exports or they can start becoming self-reliant on energy production. That leaves them with a clear choice between nuclear and coal, because in no scenario will Germany be able to install enough wind and solar facilities to meet the demands of a modern economy. As wind becomes a larger part of their electricity profile, so too do variations on their output, some of which has caused significant damage to end users. (Voltage regulators have become very popular as a result in Germany, FP notes.)

That leaves clean nuclear or coal as Germany’s two realistic options. Germany has the sixth-largest reserves of coal in the world, but only ranks 59th on proven natural-gas reserves. It’s either coal or nuclear, or more rationally a combination of both, that will allow Germany to responsibly produce the energy it needs to maintain its economy and standard of living without knuckling under to Moscow. The Greens either need to grow up and grasp this, or find themselves on the outside looking in on the post-Ukraine political reality.

https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2022/06 ... ny-n477434
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by GannonFan »

That will be a considerable mark dimming Merkel's tenure in Germany for decades to come - why the need to so rapidly shut down the nuclear industry in Germany? I understand the trepidation after Fukishima, but Germany's reactors were never really in danger of coastal flooding from a tsunami. Better bet would've been to keep nuclear going, shut down coal, and wait until other renewables were finally fully up and able and the issue of battery storage resolved before shutting down nuclear. Instead, she chose to get chummy with Putin and direct a fortune of money his way in return for the natural gas. Even now, as Russia continues its invasion, Europe is paying Russia a lot of money for continued natural gas. Not a great diplomatic feather for Merkel at all.
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by SDHornet »

UNI88 wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 8:06 pm
UNI88 wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:29 pm Months? Ukrainians have nothing to lose, they'll drag this out for years if the Russian fascists keep pushing.

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SD, how about an avatar or hat bet? If all of Ukraine falls before the end of the year, you get to pick my avatar or I will send you a UNI hat. If Ukraine doesn't fall, I get to pick your avatar or you send me a Sac State hat.

SG, same offer but a Jizz hat?
Pass, only because I don't think Putin wants all of Ukraine. He'll take whatever parts he wants, then likely leave the rest as a weakened puppet state or something along those lines.

I'll willing to swap hats though. Or we can just make a hat bet on the Sac State - UNI game this fall. Deal?
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by SDHornet »

Sanctions are working.

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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by UNI88 »

SDHornet wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 8:05 pm
UNI88 wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 8:06 pm
SD, how about an avatar or hat bet? If all of Ukraine falls before the end of the year, you get to pick my avatar or I will send you a UNI hat. If Ukraine doesn't fall, I get to pick your avatar or you send me a Sac State hat.

SG, same offer but a Jizz hat?
Pass, only because I don't think Putin wants all of Ukraine. He'll take whatever parts he wants, then likely leave the rest as a weakened puppet state or something along those lines.

I'll willing to swap hats though. Or we can just make a hat bet on the Sac State - UNI game this fall. Deal?
I'm up for either.
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by SDHornet »

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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by SDHornet »

UNI88 wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 8:11 pm
SDHornet wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 8:05 pm

Pass, only because I don't think Putin wants all of Ukraine. He'll take whatever parts he wants, then likely leave the rest as a weakened puppet state or something along those lines.

I'll willing to swap hats though. Or we can just make a hat bet on the Sac State - UNI game this fall. Deal?
I'm up for either.
PM me your hat size and I'll pick you out a fitted hat.

Disclaimer, our fitted hat selection is pretty weak these days, so it'll probably be a pretty generic/ordinary hat and logo.
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by SDHornet »

Oh.

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