The Ukraine Crisis

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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 12:57 pm
∞∞∞ wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 11:33 am
The Russo-Ukrainian War is one of the few instances since the Gulf War which I agree the US should be involved in (and so do most Americans).

For the last two decades, it seemed like the US was a declining superpower but I think our involvement in Ukraine and our strong support of Taiwan has reiterated that the US, unlike China and Russia, genuinely believes in freedom and international law AND will fight for your autonomy.

Besides being the right thing to do, it makes nations reconsider where they really want to tie their interests. Do they sell their soul to places like China...or tie their economies with a nation who sticks up for it? For the US, it's a long-term investment worth making.
Well said.
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by SDHornet »

Skjellyfetti wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 6:35 am I thought you decided it was a failure ~3 days into it? Walking that back?
The Kherson counteroffensive was an utter failure. There is no denying that.
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by SDHornet »

Winterborn wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 5:41 pm
kalm wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 4:13 pm

Im with you. It’s a little bit different this time for many reasons tho.
It is, till it isn't.

Just being skeptical of the amount and where the money is going to. Not the conflict itself.

I always like to see receipts. :)
The money is going to the MIC, political cronies/family members both here in the US and in Ukraine (for all parties involved), and probably some crumbs actually make to to the front for actual war fighting effort.
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by SDHornet »

∞∞∞ wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 11:33 am
houndawg wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 9:33 am

You're dealing with a Neville Chamberlain wannabe who thinks its our fault Putin invaded his neighbor and Ukrainians would be safe if we'd just stop helping them so they could surrender and prosper.
The Russo-Ukrainian War is one of the few instances since the Gulf War which I agree the US should be involved in (and so do most Americans).

For the last two decades, it seemed like the US was a declining superpower but I think our involvement in Ukraine and our strong support of Taiwan has reiterated that the US, unlike China and Russia, genuinely believes in freedom and international law AND will fight for your autonomy.

Besides being the right thing to do, it makes nations reconsider where they really want to tie their interests. Do they sell their soul to places like China...or tie their economies with a nation who sticks up for it? For the US, it's a long-term investment worth making.
Well said. Problem is we don't have a legit reason (ie military agreements via NATO membership or otherwise) to be there other than "muh Russia bad". I've never believed we should be the worlds police, and this invasion by Russia is no different.
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by SDHornet »

Surprised jelly hasn't posted this, but Ukraine finally did something meaningful since the defense of Kiev. Over the last few days they took back a good/significant chunk of territory in the Kharkiv region and pushed the Russians back to the east side of the Oskil River. Everything I've seen/read is that it was a rout. A lot of logistical important areas that impact the movement of material and troops for whoever controls the area.

It sounds like it was mostly NATO equipment and foreign volunteers making up the spearhead of the attack, so the next closest things to NATO boots on the ground there can be. Pro-Russian side it claiming it was a planned withdrawal, but I'm not buying that. Russia responded with taking out some of Ukraine's electrical grid.
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by kalm »

SDHornet wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:20 pm
Winterborn wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 5:41 pm

It is, till it isn't.

Just being skeptical of the amount and where the money is going to. Not the conflict itself.

I always like to see receipts. :)
The money is going to the MIC, political cronies/family members both here in the US and in Ukraine (for all parties involved), and probably some crumbs actually make to to the front for actual war fighting effort.
Of course it’s going to the MIC. No argument there. I also have issues with being the world’s police. But in this instance I’m glad we’re able to succeed without being directly involved in the conflict.
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by SDHornet »

kalm wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:43 pm
SDHornet wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:20 pm

The money is going to the MIC, political cronies/family members both here in the US and in Ukraine (for all parties involved), and probably some crumbs actually make to to the front for actual war fighting effort.
Of course it’s going to the MIC. No argument there. I also have issues with being the world’s police. But in this instance I’m glad we’re able to succeed without being directly involved in the conflict.
Please define.
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by kalm »

SDHornet wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:46 pm
kalm wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:43 pm

Of course it’s going to the MIC. No argument there. I also have issues with being the world’s police. But in this instance I’m glad we’re able to succeed without being directly involved in the conflict.
Please define.
Officially boots on the ground, planes in the airspace.
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by Silenoz »

SDHornet wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:17 pm
Skjellyfetti wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 6:35 am I thought you decided it was a failure ~3 days into it? Walking that back?
The Kherson counteroffensive was an utter failure. There is no denying that.
wut? Progress not immediate enough for you? Then I hate to think of what word would describe Russia's 6+ month campaign to basically make negative ground since March :rofl:
SDHornet wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:33 pm Surprised jelly hasn't posted this, but Ukraine finally did something meaningful since the defense of Kiev.
Yeah, I mean other than kills tens of thousands of them and having them actually ponder mobilization, sink their flagship and send their fleet cowering, completely pause the overall Russian offensive campaign due to fucking their bases and depots up with repeated uncontested HIMARS strikes, forcing them to get shit-ass tech from Iran and North Korea, killing a laughable number of generals, striking Crimea...

No, yeah, this has been such a great overall success for Russia. I guess Ukraine was due to do something meaningful :lol:

But keep doubling down on the baby-rapists JV squad army. No point in going back now!
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by houndawg »

Silenoz wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 6:59 pm
SDHornet wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:17 pm

The Kherson counteroffensive was an utter failure. There is no denying that.
wut? Progress not immediate enough for you? Then I hate to think of what word would describe Russia's 6+ month campaign to basically make negative ground since March :rofl:
SDHornet wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:33 pm Surprised jelly hasn't posted this, but Ukraine finally did something meaningful since the defense of Kiev.
Yeah, I mean other than kills tens of thousands of them and having them actually ponder mobilization, sink their flagship and send their fleet cowering, completely pause the overall Russian offensive campaign due to fucking their bases and depots up with repeated uncontested HIMARS strikes, forcing them to get shit-ass tech from Iran and North Korea, killing a laughable number of generals, striking Crimea...

No, yeah, this has been such a great overall success for Russia. I guess Ukraine was due to do something meaningful :lol:

But keep doubling down on the baby-rapists JV squad army. No point in going back now!
SD "Blame America First" Hornet... :ohno:
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by houndawg »

SDHornet wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:25 pm
∞∞∞ wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 11:33 am

The Russo-Ukrainian War is one of the few instances since the Gulf War which I agree the US should be involved in (and so do most Americans).

For the last two decades, it seemed like the US was a declining superpower but I think our involvement in Ukraine and our strong support of Taiwan has reiterated that the US, unlike China and Russia, genuinely believes in freedom and international law AND will fight for your autonomy.

Besides being the right thing to do, it makes nations reconsider where they really want to tie their interests. Do they sell their soul to places like China...or tie their economies with a nation who sticks up for it? For the US, it's a long-term investment worth making.
Well said. Problem is we don't have a legit reason (ie military agreements via NATO membership or otherwise) to be there other than "muh Russia bad". I've never believed we should be the worlds police, and this invasion by Russia is no different.
Putin's overdue for a smackdown to remind him that he isn't a superpower.
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by dbackjon »

SDHornet wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:17 pm
Skjellyfetti wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 6:35 am I thought you decided it was a failure ~3 days into it? Walking that back?
The Kherson counteroffensive was an utter failure. There is no denying that.
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by Skjellyfetti »

Yeah, SDHornet is going to eat his words. The Russians West of the Dnipro have no resupply route. Ukraine is advancing slower in Kharkiv but the Kherson counteroffensive isn't over and certainly not an "utter failure." Lol.
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by BDKJMU »

SDHornet wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:25 pm
∞∞∞ wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 11:33 am

The Russo-Ukrainian War is one of the few instances since the Gulf War which I agree the US should be involved in (and so do most Americans).

For the last two decades, it seemed like the US was a declining superpower but I think our involvement in Ukraine and our strong support of Taiwan has reiterated that the US, unlike China and Russia, genuinely believes in freedom and international law AND will fight for your autonomy.

Besides being the right thing to do, it makes nations reconsider where they really want to tie their interests. Do they sell their soul to places like China...or tie their economies with a nation who sticks up for it? For the US, it's a long-term investment worth making.
Well said. Problem is we don't have a legit reason (ie military agreements via NATO membership or otherwise) to be there other than "muh Russia bad". I've never believed we should be the worlds police, and this invasion by Russia is no different.
I agree. I wouldn’t have as much a problem with it if we were controlling our own border 1st. We’re facing a full scale invasion of the southern border, but are spending more $$ defending Ukraine’s border. Nuts.
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by dbackjon »

BDKJMU wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 2:35 pm
SDHornet wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:25 pm

Well said. Problem is we don't have a legit reason (ie military agreements via NATO membership or otherwise) to be there other than "muh Russia bad". I've never believed we should be the worlds police, and this invasion by Russia is no different.
I agree. I wouldn’t have as much a problem with it if we were controlling our own border 1st. We’re facing a full scale invasion of the southern border, but are spending more $$ defending Ukraine’s border. Nuts.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :dunce: :dunce: :dunce: :dunce: :dunce:
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by houndawg »

Silenoz wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 6:59 pm
SDHornet wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:17 pm

The Kherson counteroffensive was an utter failure. There is no denying that.
wut? Progress not immediate enough for you? Then I hate to think of what word would describe Russia's 6+ month campaign to basically make negative ground since March :rofl:
SDHornet wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:33 pm Surprised jelly hasn't posted this, but Ukraine finally did something meaningful since the defense of Kiev.
Yeah, I mean other than kills tens of thousands of them and having them actually ponder mobilization, sink their flagship and send their fleet cowering, completely pause the overall Russian offensive campaign due to fucking their bases and depots up with repeated uncontested HIMARS strikes, forcing them to get shit-ass tech from Iran and North Korea, killing a laughable number of generals, striking Crimea...

No, yeah, this has been such a great overall success for Russia. I guess Ukraine was due to do something meaningful :lol:

But keep doubling down on the baby-rapists JV squad army. No point in going back now!



SD "Blame America First" Hornet... :ohno:
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by houndawg »

Skjellyfetti wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 2:19 pm
Yeah, SDHornet is going to eat his words. The Russians West of the Dnipro have no resupply route. Ukraine is advancing slower in Kharkiv but the Kherson counteroffensive isn't over and certainly not an "utter failure." Lol.
Yes he did! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by houndawg »

SDHornet wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:33 pm Surprised jelly hasn't posted this, but Ukraine finally did something meaningful since the defense of Kiev. Over the last few days they took back a good/significant chunk of territory in the Kharkiv region and pushed the Russians back to the east side of the Oskil River. Everything I've seen/read is that it was a rout. A lot of logistical important areas that impact the movement of material and troops for whoever controls the area.

It sounds like it was mostly NATO equipment and foreign volunteers making up the spearhead of the attack, so the next closest things to NATO boots on the ground there can be. Pro-Russian side it claiming it was a planned withdrawal, but I'm not buying that. Russia responded with taking out some of Ukraine's electrical grid.
Way to get out front before your bullshit is exposed :thumb:


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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by AZGrizFan »

Is this still a thing? I thought it was just a behind-the-scenes way for Brandon and his crew to launder money at this point?
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by houndawg »

AZGrizFan wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 6:50 am Is this still a thing? I thought it was just a behind-the-scenes way for Brandon and his crew to launder money at this point?

Per usual you got it wrong :coffee:
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by houndawg »

Skjellyfetti wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 2:19 pm Yeah, SDHornet is going to eat his words. The Russians West of the Dnipro have no resupply route. Ukraine is advancing slower in Kharkiv but the Kherson counteroffensive isn't over and certainly not an "utter failure." Lol.
I've been hearing the words "rout" and "flee" and "abandoned equipment" in the media recently. :coffee:
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by kalm »

Old quote from John McCain:

‘Russia is just a gas station…with nuclear weapons.’
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by AZGrizFan »

houndawg wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 6:54 am
AZGrizFan wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 6:50 am Is this still a thing? I thought it was just a behind-the-scenes way for Brandon and his crew to launder money at this point?

Per usual you got it wrong :coffee:
So they’re OPENLY laundering the money then? :coffee: :coffee:
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by GannonFan »

kalm wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 6:59 am Old quote from John McCain:

‘Russia is just a gas station…with nuclear weapons.’
One of the rare times that McCain was correct on something, so I assume someone told him that. But, certainly true. If Russia didn't have nuclear weapons likely none of this would be happening. Nuclear weapons in the hands of small minded people make you far more aggressive and cocky than if you didn't have them. And in spite of all of our sanctions, Russian oil continues to flow and pull in a chunk load of money to keep affording this futile attempt at empire building.
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Re: The Ukraine Crisis

Post by UNI88 »

AZGrizFan wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 6:50 am Is this still a thing? I thought it was just a behind-the-scenes way for Brandon and his crew to launder money at this point?
Is that what trump was upset about? That Brandon and Hunter beat him to the grift?
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