The Ukraine Crisis

[kalm]

This is the voice I read SD and SG’s Ukraine posts in…

[Winterborn]

So now we’re worried about military spending?

Ten billion here, 40 billion there, pretty soon we are going to start talking about some serious money. Or do we only start paying attention when it hits a Trillion, the rest is pocket change?

[kalm]

So now we’re worried about military spending?

Ten billion here, 40 billion there, pretty soon we are going to start talking about some serious money. Or do we only start paying attention when it hits a Trillion, the rest is pocket change?

That’s pretty much it. This is one moment in history that supports having a massive military budget and ability to send aid. Even if it is 10% of our annual budget. Freedom ain’t free.

[kalm]

[Winterborn]

Ten billion here, 40 billion there, pretty soon we are going to start talking about some serious money. Or do we only start paying attention when it hits a Trillion, the rest is pocket change?

That’s pretty much it. This is one moment in history that supports having a massive military budget and ability to send aid. Even if it is 10% of our annual budget. Freedom ain’t free.

I guess I disagree. I have no problem sending some aid, just not the amount we are doing (Which I think was the point of Pwns meme).

[kalm]

That’s pretty much it. This is one moment in history that supports having a massive military budget and ability to send aid. Even if it is 10% of our annual budget. Freedom ain’t free.

I guess I disagree. I have no problem sending some aid, just not the amount we are doing (Which I think was the point of Pwns meme).

I know, but there are better times to complain about military spending.

[Winterborn]

I guess I disagree. I have no problem sending some aid, just not the amount we are doing (Which I think was the point of Pwns meme).

I know, but there are better times to complain about military spending.

If not now, when?

There is always a crises going on and no matter what the discussion is, it is good to have a debate before the checks are cut. And not all of the 40 billion is military aid, there are multiple different packages all rolled up into one.

[kalm]

Sweden is likely to join them. Putin’s 4 dimensional chess.

[kalm]

I know, but there are better times to complain about military spending.

If not now, when?

There is always a crises going on and no matter what the discussion is, it is good to have a debate before the checks are cut. And not all of the 40 billion is military aid, there are multiple different packages all rolled up into one.

It should always be questioned. I agree. The irony is the timing of some people now questioning it, when it’s rarely mentioned by the right during periods of smaller aggressions. In this way it’s similar to emergency economic stimulus. Rainy day funds and such.

Btw…a bunch of that spending comes back to US defense contractors. We need to re-stock some of our old inventory and replace it with newer tech.

[Winterborn]

If not now, when?

There is always a crises going on and no matter what the discussion is, it is good to have a debate before the checks are cut. And not all of the 40 billion is military aid, there are multiple different packages all rolled up into one.

It should always be questioned. I agree. The irony is the timing of some people now questioning it, when it’s rarely mentioned by the right during periods of smaller aggressions. In this way it’s similar to emergency economic stimulus. Rainy day funds and such.

Btw…a bunch of that spending comes back to US defense contractors. We need to re-stock some of our old inventory and replace it with newer tech.

Both sides have their moments of hypocrisy, but while it is good to point that out at those time, the questions they do raise (hypocritical or not) are valid.

I would hope some comes back to us with the experience Biden and Hunter have in that area.

[kalm]

It should always be questioned. I agree. The irony is the timing of some people now questioning it, when it’s rarely mentioned by the right during periods of smaller aggressions. In this way it’s similar to emergency economic stimulus. Rainy day funds and such.

Btw…a bunch of that spending comes back to US defense contractors. We need to re-stock some of our old inventory and replace it with newer tech.

Both sides have their moments of hypocrisy, but while it is good to point that out at those time, the questions they do raise (hypocritical or not) are valid.

I would hope some comes back to us with the experience Biden and Hunter have in that area.

We agree.

[Winterborn]

Both sides have their moments of hypocrisy, but while it is good to point that out at those time, the questions they do raise (hypocritical or not) are valid.

I would hope some comes back to us with the experience Biden and Hunter have in that area.

We agree.

Stop the presses and update the cover page.

[kalm]

Putin 101 for those not understanding what’s happening.

[SeattleGriz]

If not now, when?

There is always a crises going on and no matter what the discussion is, it is good to have a debate before the checks are cut. And not all of the 40 billion is military aid, there are multiple different packages all rolled up into one.

It should always be questioned. I agree. The irony is the timing of some people now questioning it, when it’s rarely mentioned by the right during periods of smaller aggressions. In this way it’s similar to emergency economic stimulus. Rainy day funds and such.

Btw…a bunch of that spending comes back to US defense contractors. We need to re-stock some of our old inventory and replace it with newer tech.

I think Afghanistan opened a lot of eyes to how this game works. That's why I think you are hearing more people ask, "what are we getting for this money?". Agreed that not much was said in the past.

[Skjellyfetti]

Afghanistan. Hmmm. Could you be more specific?

IMO, the most analogous would be our aid to the mujahideen in the 80s that helped engulf the Soviets in a quagmire. Conks used to celebrate that.

[SeattleGriz]

Way to buckle down and put your money where your mouth is Europe.

[kalm]

Afghanistan. Hmmm. Could you be more specific?

IMO, the most analogous would be our aid to the mujahideen in the 80s that helped engulf the Soviets in a quagmire. Conks used to celebrate that.

And then we fucked up the exit…

[SeattleGriz]

Afghanistan. Hmmm. Could you be more specific?

IMO, the most analogous would be our aid to the mujahideen in the 80s that helped engulf the Soviets in a quagmire. Conks used to celebrate that.

Afghanistan was a lot of money, time and bodies invested to simply pack up, leave the Taliban a large amount of weaponry with not much to show for our efforts.

[Skjellyfetti]

Yeah, I knew that our adventure there is what you were talking about. I think the 80s is more analogous to this, though. We had over 2k soldiers die in Afghanistan for nothing.

Despite what SD is convinced of - no one serious wants US boots on the ground. And I don't believe we'll see 2k deaths in Ukraine. Blood is more important that treasure, imo. and whatever $$ we lost in Afghanistan, the human toll makes it far worse.

[Ibanez]

Afghanistan. Hmmm. Could you be more specific?

IMO, the most analogous would be our aid to the mujahideen in the 80s that helped engulf the Soviets in a quagmire. Conks used to celebrate that.

Afghanistan was a lot of money, time and bodies invested to simply pack up, leave the Taliban a large amount of weaponry with not much to show for our efforts.

I thought sweeet black tar heroin was going to pay for the war? We never think these things through....

[GannonFan]

Yeah, I knew that our adventure there is what you were talking about. I think the 80s is more analogous to this, though. We had over 2k soldiers die in Afghanistan for nothing.

Despite what SD is convinced of - no one serious wants US boots on the ground. And I don't believe we'll see 2k deaths in Ukraine. Blood is more important that treasure, imo. and whatever $$ we lost in Afghanistan, the human toll makes it far worse.

For nothing? Hey, I surely get the idea that Afghanistan wasn't a roaring success, and our incredibly bungled and rapid exit from there didn't help that, but Afghanistan prior to 9/11 compared to Afghanistan now circa 2022 is still different. It's no longer the safe haven for the largest terrorist organization on the planet (at the time Al Queda and Osama Bin Laden). The Taliban today, while still horribly repressive of women in particular, at least appear to be somewhat chastened with regards to harboring and sheltering terrorists of that ilk. Again, was it worth the loss of lives and the tremendous cost? Probably not, but it was surely for something (however you categorize it), not nothing.

[Skjellyfetti]

I don't think the Taliban have any qualms about harboring another terrorist organization. Haqqani Network? lol

I think you just see me post and really want to disagree so you have to find some small thing to pick a nit with.

"Well, ackchyually..."

[GannonFan]

I don't think the Taliban have any qualms about harboring another terrorist organization. Haqqani Network? lol

I think you just see me post and really want to disagree so you have to find some small thing to pick a nit with.

"Well, ackchyually..."

Well, don't want me to nitpick, don't say things that don't ring true. To say that "nothing" was accomplished in Afghanistan just rings of hyperbole. Don't do that and I won't reply. Easy peasy.

[Skjellyfetti]

Well, actchually they "at least appear to be somewhat chastened."

[UNI88]

Yeah, I knew that our adventure there is what you were talking about. I think the 80s is more analogous to this, though. We had over 2k soldiers die in Afghanistan for nothing.

Despite what SD is convinced of - no one serious wants US boots on the ground. And I don't believe we'll see 2k deaths in Ukraine. Blood is more important that treasure, imo. and whatever $$ we lost in Afghanistan, the human toll makes it far worse.

I'd agree with a couple of exceptions:
- I don't believe the USSR was threatening to use nukes if things didn't go their way in Afghanistan.
- The Russian incursion into Afghanistan didn't cause a bunch of nearby, neutral states to seriously consider joining NATO.