Thank you coal!

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SDHornet
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Re: Thank you coal!

Post by SDHornet »

Interesting quick read:

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Notice how the nuclear and coal power — the baseload that can stay on and ramp up — has been flat. Notice also how wind and solar output crapped out forcing a ramp up in natural gas.

Texas and other states have no incentive to build baseload capacity because federal subsidies for renewables distort the market. Likewise, maintaining and weatherizing those baseload systems is economically disincentivized by those same federal subsidies. Additionally, most renewal energy systems have no obligations to contribute to maintenance of the existing power grid or ramp up capacity to that grid.
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Re: Thank you coal!

Post by BDKJMU »

∞∞∞ wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:40 am
Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:28 am

I worked for a power company for a few years. They had no problems with maintaining their nuclear or coal power plants. The NRC is on your ass about everything. A paper in the wrong folder was a huge fine. I work for the VP in charge of construction and procurement. The only issue I could see is the government trying to convert to green energy too soon. Taking money away from the best source of power at the time.
https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files ... _FINAL.pdf

Aging infrastructure and more extreme weather events due to climate change.

The US has a genuine infrastructure issue - energy and otherwise - that everyone is afraid of tackling. And they're afraid because it requires an increase in taxes, so we continue to kick the can down the road while maintenance requirements increase every year.

We have a lack of long-term vision in the US nowadays. Things don't last forever and Americans seem to be in denial that they'll need to pay for upgraded infrastructure. It's just going to get worse until politicians and citizens get real with the situation.

Denying the effects of climate change and not properly preparing for it is piling on at this point.
Its not climate change. Its just weather. An extreme weather event, but not unheard of for Texas- like the record lows in TX 1930s-1980s that Gil cited. More like a once every several decade event.

The elites and their allies in govt want to use the guise of "climate change' to gain power, control, and $$ at the expense of the masses, through things like the cockamamie New Green Deal..
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Re: Thank you coal!

Post by AZGrizFan »

Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:37 am
Col Hogan wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:06 am

Come on Gill...it is an extreme weather event in Texas...you had to go back 89 years to find the extreme...in fact, you have to go back 70 years to find similar weather like we have just gone through...
We might have a difference of opinion on extreme.

Abilene -7 / 1985
Amarillo -14 / 1951
Austin -2 / 1949
Brownsville 15 / 1901
Corpus Christi 13 / 1989
Dallas - Ft. Worth -1 / 1989
Del Rio 10 / 1989
El Paso -8 / 1962
Galveston 14 / 1983
Houston 9 / 1989
Lubbock -17 / 1933
Midland / Odessa -11 / 1985
Port Arthur 12 / 1989
San Angelo -4 / 1989
San Antonio 0 / 1949
Victoria 9 / 1989
Waco -5 / 1949
Wichita Falls -12 / 1947
Not sure what you’re attempting to prove here, Gil...the last weather event like this was 32 years ago.....3x a century would be considered a statistical outlier, I would think.
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Re: Thank you coal!

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Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:37 am
Col Hogan wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:06 am

Come on Gill...it is an extreme weather event in Texas...you had to go back 89 years to find the extreme...in fact, you have to go back 70 years to find similar weather like we have just gone through...
We might have a difference of opinion on extreme.

Abilene -7 / 1985
Amarillo -14 / 1951
Austin -2 / 1949
Brownsville 15 / 1901
Corpus Christi 13 / 1989
Dallas - Ft. Worth -1 / 1989
Del Rio 10 / 1989
El Paso -8 / 1962
Galveston 14 / 1983
Houston 9 / 1989
Lubbock -17 / 1933
Midland / Odessa -11 / 1985
Port Arthur 12 / 1989
San Angelo -4 / 1989
San Antonio 0 / 1949
Victoria 9 / 1989
Waco -5 / 1949
Wichita Falls -12 / 1947
Three or more decades ago...and not for extended periods like we have just gone through...
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Re: Thank you coal!

Post by Gil Dobie »

AZGrizFan wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:29 pm
Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:37 am

We might have a difference of opinion on extreme.

Abilene -7 / 1985
Amarillo -14 / 1951
Austin -2 / 1949
Brownsville 15 / 1901
Corpus Christi 13 / 1989
Dallas - Ft. Worth -1 / 1989
Del Rio 10 / 1989
El Paso -8 / 1962
Galveston 14 / 1983
Houston 9 / 1989
Lubbock -17 / 1933
Midland / Odessa -11 / 1985
Port Arthur 12 / 1989
San Angelo -4 / 1989
San Antonio 0 / 1949
Victoria 9 / 1989
Waco -5 / 1949
Wichita Falls -12 / 1947
Not sure what you’re attempting to prove here, Gil...the last weather event like this was 32 years ago.....3x a century would be considered a statistical outlier, I would think.
Those are record lows, below is a list of low temps in Dallas, back to 1980. A lot of temps in the teens, or don't you need to heat your houses if it's below 20 degrees. The power companies should have been ready for this.

Min °F Date Min °C
22 March 04, 2019 -6
15 January 17, 2018 -9
15 January 07, 2017 -9
17 December 19, 2016 -8
18 January 08, 2015 -8
15 January 06, 2014 -9
20 December 10, 2013 -7
23 December 26, 2012 -5
14 February 02, 2011 -10
14 January 09, 2010 -10
21 January 28, 2009 -6
22 December 21, 2008 -6
18 February 16, 2007 -8
23 December 08, 2006 -5
16 December 09, 2005 + -9
18 December 23, 2004 -8
20 February 25, 2003 -7
17 March 03, 2002 -8
22 January 03, 2001 -6
21 December 12, 2000 -6
18 January 04, 1999 -8
20 December 22, 1998 -7
– 1997 –
11 February 04, 1996 -12
20 December 10, 1995 + -7
18 January 18, 1994 -8
23 November 26, 1993 -5
20 January 16, 1992 -7
25 January 01, 1991 -4
10 December 23, 1990 -12
1 December 23, 1989 -17
16 February 11, 1988 + -9
26 December 16, 1987 + -3
21 February 11, 1986 -6
10 February 02, 1985 + -12
10 January 19, 1984 -12
5 December 25, 1983 + -15
7 January 11, 1982 -14
10 February 11, 1981 -12
16 March 02, 1980 -9
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Re: Thank you coal!

Post by Col Hogan »

Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:03 pm
AZGrizFan wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:29 pm
Not sure what you’re attempting to prove here, Gil...the last weather event like this was 32 years ago.....3x a century would be considered a statistical outlier, I would think.
Those are record lows, below is a list of low temps in Dallas, back to 1980. A lot of temps in the teens, or don't you need to heat your houses if it's below 20 degrees. The power companies should have been ready for this.

Min °F Date Min °C
22 March 04, 2019 -6
15 January 17, 2018 -9
15 January 07, 2017 -9
17 December 19, 2016 -8
18 January 08, 2015 -8
15 January 06, 2014 -9
20 December 10, 2013 -7
23 December 26, 2012 -5
14 February 02, 2011 -10
14 January 09, 2010 -10
21 January 28, 2009 -6
22 December 21, 2008 -6
18 February 16, 2007 -8
23 December 08, 2006 -5
16 December 09, 2005 + -9
18 December 23, 2004 -8
20 February 25, 2003 -7
17 March 03, 2002 -8
22 January 03, 2001 -6
21 December 12, 2000 -6
18 January 04, 1999 -8
20 December 22, 1998 -7
– 1997 –
11 February 04, 1996 -12
20 December 10, 1995 + -7
18 January 18, 1994 -8
23 November 26, 1993 -5
20 January 16, 1992 -7
25 January 01, 1991 -4
10 December 23, 1990 -12
1 December 23, 1989 -17
16 February 11, 1988 + -9
26 December 16, 1987 + -3
21 February 11, 1986 -6
10 February 02, 1985 + -12
10 January 19, 1984 -12
5 December 25, 1983 + -15
7 January 11, 1982 -14
10 February 11, 1981 -12
16 March 02, 1980 -9
Again, you are citing single day instances...not extended periods statewide...

Here’s the list of the ten worse weather incidents in southeast Texas in the past 100 years..prior to this past week...

I’m willing to wager that this past week will be among the top three once this list is updated..

https://www.weather.gov/hgx/climate_holidays_hundred
“Tolerance and Apathy are the last virtues of a dying society.” Aristotle

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
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Re: Thank you coal!

Post by Gil Dobie »

Col Hogan wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:48 pm
Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:03 pm

Those are record lows, below is a list of low temps in Dallas, back to 1980. A lot of temps in the teens, or don't you need to heat your houses if it's below 20 degrees. The power companies should have been ready for this.

Min °F Date Min °C
22 March 04, 2019 -6
15 January 17, 2018 -9
15 January 07, 2017 -9
17 December 19, 2016 -8
18 January 08, 2015 -8
15 January 06, 2014 -9
20 December 10, 2013 -7
23 December 26, 2012 -5
14 February 02, 2011 -10
14 January 09, 2010 -10
21 January 28, 2009 -6
22 December 21, 2008 -6
18 February 16, 2007 -8
23 December 08, 2006 -5
16 December 09, 2005 + -9
18 December 23, 2004 -8
20 February 25, 2003 -7
17 March 03, 2002 -8
22 January 03, 2001 -6
21 December 12, 2000 -6
18 January 04, 1999 -8
20 December 22, 1998 -7
– 1997 –
11 February 04, 1996 -12
20 December 10, 1995 + -7
18 January 18, 1994 -8
23 November 26, 1993 -5
20 January 16, 1992 -7
25 January 01, 1991 -4
10 December 23, 1990 -12
1 December 23, 1989 -17
16 February 11, 1988 + -9
26 December 16, 1987 + -3
21 February 11, 1986 -6
10 February 02, 1985 + -12
10 January 19, 1984 -12
5 December 25, 1983 + -15
7 January 11, 1982 -14
10 February 11, 1981 -12
16 March 02, 1980 -9
Again, you are citing single day instances...not extended periods statewide...

Here’s the list of the ten worse weather incidents in southeast Texas in the past 100 years..prior to this past week...

I’m willing to wager that this past week will be among the top three once this list is updated..

https://www.weather.gov/hgx/climate_holidays_hundred
Hurricane's and flood's are extreme events, IMO. Power outages are what made this cold weather extreme. The Power Companies should have been able to handle it.
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Re: Thank you coal!

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Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:03 pm
AZGrizFan wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:29 pm
Not sure what you’re attempting to prove here, Gil...the last weather event like this was 32 years ago.....3x a century would be considered a statistical outlier, I would think.
Those are record lows, below is a list of low temps in Dallas, back to 1980. A lot of temps in the teens, or don't you need to heat your houses if it's below 20 degrees. The power companies should have been ready for this.

Min °F Date Min °C
22 March 04, 2019 -6
15 January 17, 2018 -9
15 January 07, 2017 -9
17 December 19, 2016 -8
18 January 08, 2015 -8
15 January 06, 2014 -9
20 December 10, 2013 -7
23 December 26, 2012 -5
14 February 02, 2011 -10
14 January 09, 2010 -10
21 January 28, 2009 -6
22 December 21, 2008 -6
18 February 16, 2007 -8
23 December 08, 2006 -5
16 December 09, 2005 + -9
18 December 23, 2004 -8
20 February 25, 2003 -7
17 March 03, 2002 -8
22 January 03, 2001 -6
21 December 12, 2000 -6
18 January 04, 1999 -8
20 December 22, 1998 -7
– 1997 –
11 February 04, 1996 -12
20 December 10, 1995 + -7
18 January 18, 1994 -8
23 November 26, 1993 -5
20 January 16, 1992 -7
25 January 01, 1991 -4
10 December 23, 1990 -12
1 December 23, 1989 -17
16 February 11, 1988 + -9
26 December 16, 1987 + -3
21 February 11, 1986 -6
10 February 02, 1985 + -12
10 January 19, 1984 -12
5 December 25, 1983 + -15
7 January 11, 1982 -14
10 February 11, 1981 -12
16 March 02, 1980 -9
Come on Gil. You’re smarter than this. You’re making our point FOR us. Lowest temps of the year in the high 20’s? This thing has been WAY south of that. Hell, it was 11 degrees in San Antonio Monday night. And, It’s not just Dallas. It’s the size, breadth, severity and length of this thing that’s caused the issue. This storm covered the entire state, every single major metropolitan area, for (now) going on 5 days and there’s another one RIGHT behind it, so it’ll be 7-8 days before we see any prolonged relief. A low temp plucked here and there is hardly a comparison.
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Re: Thank you coal!

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AZGrizFan wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:28 pm
Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:03 pm

Those are record lows, below is a list of low temps in Dallas, back to 1980. A lot of temps in the teens, or don't you need to heat your houses if it's below 20 degrees. The power companies should have been ready for this.

Min °F Date Min °C
22 March 04, 2019 -6
15 January 17, 2018 -9
15 January 07, 2017 -9
17 December 19, 2016 -8
18 January 08, 2015 -8
15 January 06, 2014 -9
20 December 10, 2013 -7
23 December 26, 2012 -5
14 February 02, 2011 -10
14 January 09, 2010 -10
21 January 28, 2009 -6
22 December 21, 2008 -6
18 February 16, 2007 -8
23 December 08, 2006 -5
16 December 09, 2005 + -9
18 December 23, 2004 -8
20 February 25, 2003 -7
17 March 03, 2002 -8
22 January 03, 2001 -6
21 December 12, 2000 -6
18 January 04, 1999 -8
20 December 22, 1998 -7
– 1997 –
11 February 04, 1996 -12
20 December 10, 1995 + -7
18 January 18, 1994 -8
23 November 26, 1993 -5
20 January 16, 1992 -7
25 January 01, 1991 -4
10 December 23, 1990 -12
1 December 23, 1989 -17
16 February 11, 1988 + -9
26 December 16, 1987 + -3
21 February 11, 1986 -6
10 February 02, 1985 + -12
10 January 19, 1984 -12
5 December 25, 1983 + -15
7 January 11, 1982 -14
10 February 11, 1981 -12
16 March 02, 1980 -9
Come on Gil. You’re smarter than this. You’re making our point FOR us. Lowest temps of the year in the high 20’s? This thing has been WAY south of that. Hell, it was 11 degrees in San Antonio Monday night. And, It’s not just Dallas. It’s the size, breadth, severity and length of this thing that’s caused the issue. This storm covered the entire state, every single major metropolitan area, for (now) going on 5 days and there’s another one RIGHT behind it, so it’ll be 7-8 days before we see any prolonged relief. A low temp plucked here and there is hardly a comparison.
He lived in North Dakota, temps in the 20's is beach weather.
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Re: Thank you coal!

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SDHornet wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:29 pm
AZGrizFan wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:28 pm

Come on Gil. You’re smarter than this. You’re making our point FOR us. Lowest temps of the year in the high 20’s? This thing has been WAY south of that. Hell, it was 11 degrees in San Antonio Monday night. And, It’s not just Dallas. It’s the size, breadth, severity and length of this thing that’s caused the issue. This storm covered the entire state, every single major metropolitan area, for (now) going on 5 days and there’s another one RIGHT behind it, so it’ll be 7-8 days before we see any prolonged relief. A low temp plucked here and there is hardly a comparison.
He lived in North Dakota, temps in the 20's is beach weather.
I understand that. They also build for it, given that it’s the norm....it’s FAR from the norm in Texas. Especially this widespread and this sustained.
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Re: Thank you coal!

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Good luck to the folks in Texas! I've got two nephews living in Houston without power who aren't happy with the situation right now.

It'll be interesting to see what changes, if any, will come about after the inquiries are done. I guess a few heads will roll, but not much else. One article I read mentioned that a similar situation happened around 10 years ago in Texas. Several changes to make the grid more weather resistant were recommended, but not required. On the other hand, how much do you spend in upgrades for something that rarely happens? And Texas is a big ass state, so one size doesn't fit all.
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Re: Thank you coal!

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AZGrizFan wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:02 pm
SDHornet wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:29 pm

He lived in North Dakota, temps in the 20's is beach weather.
I understand that. They also build for it, given that it’s the norm....it’s FAR from the norm in Texas. Especially this widespread and this sustained.
This happened 10 years ago with this power company. The company was found not to be following winterization procedures.
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Re: Thank you coal!

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I had no idea idea TX is 23% wind power. Why in the heck is that in oil & natural gas rich TX of all places? Probably enough oil & natural gas to power several times their population for hundreds of years..
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Re: Thank you coal!

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BDKJMU wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:54 am I had no idea idea TX is 23% wind power. Why in the heck is that in oil & natural gas rich TX of all places? Probably enough oil & natural gas to power several times their population for hundreds of years..
Gubmint subsidies.
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Re: Thank you coal!

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Re: Thank you coal!

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The GND wouldn’t have prevented ERCOT from selling off their excess energy prior to the cold snap, then refusing to buy it back when they realized they were going to need it and instead choosing to just shut down parts of the grid....
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Re: Thank you coal!

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AZGrizFan wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:43 pm
The GND wouldn’t have prevented ERCOT from selling off their excess energy prior to the cold snap, then refusing to buy it back when they realized they were going to need it and instead choosing to just shut down parts of the grid....
Don't tell AOChe that, she's on a roll...
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Re: Thank you coal!

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SDHornet wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:41 pm
AZGrizFan wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:43 pm
The GND wouldn’t have prevented ERCOT from selling off their excess energy prior to the cold snap, then refusing to buy it back when they realized they were going to need it and instead choosing to just shut down parts of the grid....
Don't tell AOChe that, she's on a roll...
Don't bag on AOChe. She's a stable genius and she has a plan - she'll nationalize ERCOT and the government bureaucrats running it won't be allowed to sell excess energy. They will need to raise rates on the uber-wealthy (anyone making more than $60K/year) to cover the lost revenue. :D
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Re: Thank you coal!

Post by Gil Dobie »

What's the power grid going to be like when we have 100,000,000 electric cars plugged in at night.
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Re: Thank you coal!

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Gil Dobie wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:57 pm What's the power grid going to be like when we have 100,000,000 electric cars plugged in at night trying to draw power from a grid being powered by solar and wind during a snowstorm....
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Thank you coal!

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Has China Joe done anything to aid the people of Texas?
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Re: Thank you coal!

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Gil Dobie wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:57 pm What's the power grid going to be like when we have 100,000,000 electric cars plugged in at night.
Ha! Good one!

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Re: Thank you coal!

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AZ and Colonel...this is gonna get fixed, right?

As the Texas power grid collapsed under a historic winter storm, Jose Del Rio of Haltom City, in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, saw the electricity bill on a vacant two-bedroom home he is trying to sell slowly creep up over the past two weeks. Typically, the bill is around $125 to $150 a month, he said. But his account has already been charged about $630 this month — and he still owes another $2,600.

“If worse comes to worst, I have the ability to put it on a credit card or figure something out," Del Rio said. ”There is no one living in that house. All the lights are off. But I have the air at 60 because I don’t want the pipes to freeze.”


When he contacted Griddy, his electric company, they advised him to switch providers, Del Rio said

“Royce Pierce and his wife, Danielle, who live in Willow Park, west of Dallas, have been watching their electricity bill tick up by nearly $10,000 in the last few days for their three-bedroom home. While the family told NBC News they consider themselves lucky because they’ve had power, the financial burden has come with additional challenges.

Since the family is on a variable rate plan with Griddy, the company automatically debits the bill as they use electricity. Danielle said she closed the debit card connected to their electricity bill because Griddy wiped it out. The family has been using separate accounts and credit cards to pay for necessities as the storm goes on.

“We are hoping there will be relief,” Royce said. “This is something maybe we can skate by and tackle as time goes on but how many people can’t? A lot.”

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/busine ... fX97HSnn_4
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Re: Thank you coal!

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kalm wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:05 am AZ and Colonel...this is gonna get fixed, right?

As the Texas power grid collapsed under a historic winter storm, Jose Del Rio of Haltom City, in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, saw the electricity bill on a vacant two-bedroom home he is trying to sell slowly creep up over the past two weeks. Typically, the bill is around $125 to $150 a month, he said. But his account has already been charged about $630 this month — and he still owes another $2,600.

“If worse comes to worst, I have the ability to put it on a credit card or figure something out," Del Rio said. ”There is no one living in that house. All the lights are off. But I have the air at 60 because I don’t want the pipes to freeze.”


When he contacted Griddy, his electric company, they advised him to switch providers, Del Rio said

“Royce Pierce and his wife, Danielle, who live in Willow Park, west of Dallas, have been watching their electricity bill tick up by nearly $10,000 in the last few days for their three-bedroom home. While the family told NBC News they consider themselves lucky because they’ve had power, the financial burden has come with additional challenges.

Since the family is on a variable rate plan with Griddy, the company automatically debits the bill as they use electricity. Danielle said she closed the debit card connected to their electricity bill because Griddy wiped it out. The family has been using separate accounts and credit cards to pay for necessities as the storm goes on.

“We are hoping there will be relief,” Royce said. “This is something maybe we can skate by and tackle as time goes on but how many people can’t? A lot.”

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/busine ... fX97HSnn_4
He chose to go with Griddy instead of the local provider...a local provider that charges a little more on the daily basis, but provides stability over the long run...

What needs fixing...his ability to make choices, or the system that allows him to make choices and have the positives, and negatives, of that choice???

Is he willing to pay back the saving he earned for his choice to have the high cost of buying on the wholesale market fixed???
“Tolerance and Apathy are the last virtues of a dying society.” Aristotle

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
kalm
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Re: Thank you coal!

Post by kalm »

Col Hogan wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:18 am
kalm wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:05 am AZ and Colonel...this is gonna get fixed, right?

As the Texas power grid collapsed under a historic winter storm, Jose Del Rio of Haltom City, in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, saw the electricity bill on a vacant two-bedroom home he is trying to sell slowly creep up over the past two weeks. Typically, the bill is around $125 to $150 a month, he said. But his account has already been charged about $630 this month — and he still owes another $2,600.

“If worse comes to worst, I have the ability to put it on a credit card or figure something out," Del Rio said. ”There is no one living in that house. All the lights are off. But I have the air at 60 because I don’t want the pipes to freeze.”


When he contacted Griddy, his electric company, they advised him to switch providers, Del Rio said

“Royce Pierce and his wife, Danielle, who live in Willow Park, west of Dallas, have been watching their electricity bill tick up by nearly $10,000 in the last few days for their three-bedroom home. While the family told NBC News they consider themselves lucky because they’ve had power, the financial burden has come with additional challenges.

Since the family is on a variable rate plan with Griddy, the company automatically debits the bill as they use electricity. Danielle said she closed the debit card connected to their electricity bill because Griddy wiped it out. The family has been using separate accounts and credit cards to pay for necessities as the storm goes on.

“We are hoping there will be relief,” Royce said. “This is something maybe we can skate by and tackle as time goes on but how many people can’t? A lot.”

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/busine ... fX97HSnn_4
He chose to go with Griddy instead of the local provider...a local provider that charges a little more on the daily basis, but provides stability over the long run...

What needs fixing...his ability to make choices, or the system that allows him to make choices and have the positives, and negatives, of that choice???

Is he willing to pay back the saving he earned for his choice to have the high cost of buying on the wholesale market fixed???
Fair questions and I didn’t know the distinction with Giddy. Along those lines, aren’t we all on the hook for the poor consumer choices of others if they’re large or common enough?
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