Thank you coal!

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Re: Thank you coal!

Post by AZGrizFan »

∞∞∞ wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:16 pm :rofl: That's is NOT how it's always worked here...never in all my years posting. It's a fuck*ing message board, we discuss our opinions.

If we're going to play that game, I'd like you to find citations for your 55,130 posts.
Dude, it’s not about “changing my mind” or “proving it to me”.

It’s about not making baseless claims (which you do a LOT), like they’re the fucking gospel. THAT is why you’re viewed as a sideshow around here.

You’re a self proclaimed expert on EVERYTHING, and you rarely if EVER show your sources.

But you do you, and we’ll all continue laughing at you behind your back. Works for all parties.
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Re: Thank you coal!

Post by ∞∞∞ »

Hey man, I'm the expert on everything yet you're the one who has 5x the posts and basically lives on this website (and probably others).

I'm not an expert on everything, but I do use my other time wisely to actually read on things I don't understand. Try it one day.

And I don't laugh at you behind your back because I'm a grown man and sh*t like that is dumb.
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Re: Thank you coal!

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∞∞∞ wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:20 pm Hey man, I'm the expert on everything yet you're the one who has 5x the posts and basically lives on this website (and probably others).

I'm not an expert on everything, but I do use my other time wisely to actually read on things I don't understand. Try it one day.

And I don't laugh at you behind your back because I'm a grown man and sh*t like that is dumb.
You state shit like it’s fact. THAT is a fact.

And I’ve spent more time reading on the shitter than you have in your entire life. :nod: :nod: I just don’t read propaganda, which is apparently ALL you read.
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Re: Thank you coal!

Post by HI54UNI »

∞∞∞ wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:42 pm
HI54UNI wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:24 pm

I asked him here to show his math on how properly taxing would eliminate our deficit. still waiting.

https://championshipsubdivision.com/for ... 0#p1350550
https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2019-0 ... ions-2.pdf

Pick and choose, not that hard to eliminate our deficit if you go after the wealthy and corporations and the military. Just need the balls to do it.

Well hell, Trip's a fiscal conservative. Some of the ideas in his link:

Limit forgiveness of student loans, remove the cap on student loan interest, adopt caps on federal Medicaid spending, reduce federal Medicaid matching rates, increase Medicare premiums, increase the medicare age to 67, eliminate certain subsidies for the school hot lunch program, eliminate SSI for disabled children, eliminate head start, eliminate funding for Amtrak, increase tenant payments in govt housing, repeal Davis Bacon Act, and my favorite simply because of the discussion we are in - eliminate Dept. of Energy funding for Energy Technology Development.
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Re: Thank you coal!

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I believe that climate change is real and that the threat is significant. I don't think the end is nigh but I do believe the longer we wait to address our impact the worse it will be and the harder it will be to correct or adjust. I have more faith in our ability to develop solutions through innovation than through big government dictates.

I also wonder why nuclear isn't being considered. Isn't science important? Or is it only important when it fits the agenda?

I also think that the US and China should be held to the same standards and measured accordingly.
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Re: Thank you coal!

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Nuclear is a great option, and should be strongly pursued as the transitory energy source.

Agreed that China should be held to the same standards, but we're talking about the US. I'd like to think we're better than China.
Last edited by ∞∞∞ on Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thank you coal!

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UNI88 wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:22 pm I believe that climate change is real and that the threat is significant. I don't think the end is nigh but I do believe the longer we wait to address our impact the worse it will be and the harder it will be to correct or adjust. I have more faith in our ability to develop solutions through innovation than through big government dictates.

I also wonder why nuclear isn't being considered. Isn't science important? Or is it only important when it fits the agenda?

I also think that the US and China should be held to the same standards and measured accordingly.
Tough to disagree with much of this but don’t fossil fuels continue to enjoy a huge legacy advantage that perverts true costs and diverts some innovation away from alt energy?
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Re: Thank you coal!

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kalm wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:39 pm
UNI88 wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:22 pm I believe that climate change is real and that the threat is significant. I don't think the end is nigh but I do believe the longer we wait to address our impact the worse it will be and the harder it will be to correct or adjust. I have more faith in our ability to develop solutions through innovation than through big government dictates.

I also wonder why nuclear isn't being considered. Isn't science important? Or is it only important when it fits the agenda?

I also think that the US and China should be held to the same standards and measured accordingly.
Tough to disagree with much of this but don’t fossil fuels continue to enjoy a huge legacy advantage that perverts true costs and diverts some innovation away from alt energy?
Probably but wind and solar benefit from tax breaks that can pervert the market and cause pain as well (see Fiver's posts). Encouraging green energy isn't a bad thing but there can be bad ways to encourage green energy.
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Re: Thank you coal!

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∞∞∞ wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:36 pm That must be one hell of an engineering degree you have. You’re like an expert on EVERYTHING. :lol: :lol:
No, but I like to read about the Green New Deal, how it'll be paid for, and economics in general. It shapes how I view things.
Implementation of utopian ideas such as the green new deal have never proven beneficial.

The law of unintended consequences has always trumped them.

The Green New Deal, while noble in concept, ignores human nature and its impact on the prosperity of those who make a living and support their families in the current system.

Current hardships for future benefit is a hard thing to implement.


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Re: Thank you coal!

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Don't disagree, very tough to implement.

I think if enough people are won over though, and it's what people democratically vote for, it should be implemented. The US has an issue where corporations - not people - are making the calls right now...energy policy including. Way too many people are blissfully ignorant of this and don't understand the long-term environmental and economic damage it's doing. That's what progressives are trying to change and thankfully seem to be succeeding at (which is how democracy works). We should be a capitalist democracy, not a corporate-welfare state.
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Re: Thank you coal!

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∞∞∞ wrote:Don't disagree, very tough to implement.

I think if enough people are won over though, and it's what people democratically vote for, it should be implemented. The US has an issue where corporations - not people - are making the calls right now...energy policy including. Way too many people are blissfully ignorant of this and don't understand the long-term environmental and economic damage it's doing. That's what progressives are trying to change and thankfully seem to be succeeding at (which is how democracy works). We should be a capitalist democracy, not a corporate-welfare state.
How do you propose to address the economic inequities that will be created for those who support their families by working in these industries or fund their retirement by investing in them?


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Re: Thank you coal!

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LeadBolt wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:08 pm
∞∞∞ wrote:Don't disagree, very tough to implement.

I think if enough people are won over though, and it's what people democratically vote for, it should be implemented. The US has an issue where corporations - not people - are making the calls right now...energy policy including. Way too many people are blissfully ignorant of this and don't understand the long-term environmental and economic damage it's doing. That's what progressives are trying to change and thankfully seem to be succeeding at (which is how democracy works). We should be a capitalist democracy, not a corporate-welfare state.
How do you propose to address the economic inequities that will be created for those who support their families by working in these industries or fund their retirement by investing in them?
We'll have to invest in re-educating them into other careers, whatever their choice is. It's also why we should have on-going, large-scale, publicly-funded infrastructure projects in the US which pay good wages and benefits. It benefits middle-class workers and society as a whole. At it's core, the Green New Deal is a large-scale infrastructure investment project.

The retirement thing is another issue; the US needs to figure out a way for everyone to have stability in retirement no matter what they did throughout life. That's for another discussion though.

Part of living in a forward-thinking, economically liberal nation is the idea of continuous progress and I think it's foolish to believe anyone's job (including mine) is forever. Certain careers die, sometimes because capitalism demands it and others because society (aka. democracy) demands it.
Last edited by ∞∞∞ on Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Thank you coal!

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UNI88 wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:22 pm I believe that climate change is real and that the threat is significant. I don't think the end is nigh but I do believe the longer we wait to address our impact the worse it will be and the harder it will be to correct or adjust. I have more faith in our ability to develop solutions through innovation than through big government dictates.

I also wonder why nuclear isn't being considered. Isn't science important? Or is it only important when it fits the agenda?


I also think that the US and China should be held to the same standards and measured accordingly.
I assume this is a rhetorical question? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Re: Thank you coal!

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∞∞∞ wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:13 pm
LeadBolt wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:08 pm
How do you propose to address the economic inequities that will be created for those who support their families by working in these industries or fund their retirement by investing in them?
We'll have to invest in re-educating them into other careers, whatever their choice is. It's also why we should have on-going, large-scale, publicly-funded infrastructure projects in the US which pay good wages and benefits. It benefits blue-collar workers and society as a whole.

The retirement thing is another issue; the US needs to figure out a way for everyone to have stability in retirement no matter what they did throughout life. That's for another discussion though.

Part of living in a forward-thinking, economically liberal nation is the idea of continuous progress and I think it's foolish to believe anyone's job (including mine) is forever. Certain careers die, sometimes because capitalism demands it and others because society (aka. democracy) demands it.


Yeah, this is working out great so far. Gubmint will certainly solve this problem. :dunce:
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Re: Thank you coal!

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∞∞∞ wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:13 pm
LeadBolt wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:08 pm
How do you propose to address the economic inequities that will be created for those who support their families by working in these industries or fund their retirement by investing in them?
We'll have to invest in re-educating them into other careers, whatever their choice is. It's also why we should have on-going, large-scale, publicly-funded infrastructure projects in the US which pay good wages and benefits. It benefits middle-class workers and society as a whole. At it's core, the Green New Deal is a large-scale infrastructure investment project.

The retirement thing is another issue; the US needs to figure out a way for everyone to have stability in retirement no matter what they did throughout life. That's for another discussion though.

Part of living in a forward-thinking, economically liberal nation is the idea of continuous progress and I think it's foolish to believe anyone's job (including mine) is forever. Certain careers die, sometimes because capitalism demands it and others because society (aka. democracy) demands it.
In other words “learn to code”. :coffee: :coffee:
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Re: Thank you coal!

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AZGrizFan wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:18 pm
∞∞∞ wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:13 pm

We'll have to invest in re-educating them into other careers, whatever their choice is. It's also why we should have on-going, large-scale, publicly-funded infrastructure projects in the US which pay good wages and benefits. It benefits middle-class workers and society as a whole. At it's core, the Green New Deal is a large-scale infrastructure investment project.

The retirement thing is another issue; the US needs to figure out a way for everyone to have stability in retirement no matter what they did throughout life. That's for another discussion though.

Part of living in a forward-thinking, economically liberal nation is the idea of continuous progress and I think it's foolish to believe anyone's job (including mine) is forever. Certain careers die, sometimes because capitalism demands it and others because society (aka. democracy) demands it.
In other words “learn to code”. :coffee: :coffee:
But there's a plan for green jobs...

:lol: :dunce:
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Re: Thank you coal!

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SDHornet wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:20 pm
AZGrizFan wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:18 pm

In other words “learn to code”. :coffee: :coffee:
But there's a plan for green jobs...

:lol: :dunce:
They don’t plan. They dream. That’s as far as they get.
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Re: Thank you coal!

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∞∞∞ wrote:
LeadBolt wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:08 pm How do you propose to address the economic inequities that will be created for those who support their families by working in these industries or fund their retirement by investing in them?
We'll have to invest in re-educating them into other careers, whatever their choice is. It's also why we should have on-going, large-scale, publicly-funded infrastructure projects in the US which pay good wages and benefits. It benefits middle-class workers and society as a whole. At it's core, the Green New Deal is a large-scale infrastructure investment project.

The retirement thing is another issue; the US needs to figure out a way for everyone to have stability in retirement no matter what they did throughout life. That's for another discussion though.

Part of living in a forward-thinking, economically liberal nation is the idea of continuous progress and I think it's foolish to believe anyone's job (including mine) is forever. Certain careers die, sometimes because capitalism demands it and others because society (aka. democracy) demands it.
Since I currently support myself in retirement primarily on dividends and sales of stock from my 401k, I’ll need do what?


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Re: Thank you coal!

Post by ∞∞∞ »

AZGrizFan wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:18 pm
∞∞∞ wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:13 pm

We'll have to invest in re-educating them into other careers, whatever their choice is. It's also why we should have on-going, large-scale, publicly-funded infrastructure projects in the US which pay good wages and benefits. It benefits middle-class workers and society as a whole. At it's core, the Green New Deal is a large-scale infrastructure investment project.

The retirement thing is another issue; the US needs to figure out a way for everyone to have stability in retirement no matter what they did throughout life. That's for another discussion though.

Part of living in a forward-thinking, economically liberal nation is the idea of continuous progress and I think it's foolish to believe anyone's job (including mine) is forever. Certain careers die, sometimes because capitalism demands it and others because society (aka. democracy) demands it.
In other words “learn to code”. :coffee: :coffee:
:lol:

People in the energy sector, especially, should understand their jobs aren't forever.

Isn't that basically rule #1 the old timers tell the young guns?

It's so odd how capitalists don't understand how capitalism works in tandem with democracy. If we vote to implement green energy policies, it should be up to businesses to adjust and make money off the new policies. Some die trying, which means an inefficiency is removed. Capitalism isn't perfect, it often gets stuck in terms of social and economic progress, and it's society's obligation to use its power (aka. gov't) to get the train moving again.

Corporations should be serving the people's whims, but people are serving the corporate whims at this point.
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Re: Thank you coal!

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∞∞∞ wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:26 pm
AZGrizFan wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:18 pm

In other words “learn to code”. :coffee: :coffee:
:lol:

People in the energy sector, especially, should understand their jobs aren't forever.

Isn't that basically rule #1 the old timers tell the young guns?

It's so odd how capitalists don't understand how capitalism works in tandem with democracy. If we vote to implement green energy policies, it should be up to businesses to adjust and make money off the new policies. Some die trying, which means an inefficiency is removed. Capitalism isn't perfect, it often gets stuck in terms of social and economic progress, and it's society's obligation to use its power (aka. gov't) to get the train moving again.

Corporations should be serving the people's whims, but people are serving the corporate whims at this point.
Everybody gets that, junior. But you say all that like it was just invented in the last 25 years. THAT has been the way of the US and capitalism for oh, about 250 years.
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Re: Thank you coal!

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∞∞∞ wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:53 pm Don't disagree, very tough to implement.

I think if enough people are won over though, and it's what people democratically vote for, it should be implemented. The US has an issue where corporations - not people - are making the calls right now...energy policy including. Way too many people are blissfully ignorant of this and don't understand the long-term environmental and economic damage it's doing. That's what progressives are trying to change and thankfully seem to be succeeding at (which is how democracy works). We should be a capitalist democracy, not a corporate-welfare state.
I think you're underestimating the influence of the government bureaucracy.
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Re: Thank you coal!

Post by ∞∞∞ »

AZGrizFan wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:37 pm
∞∞∞ wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:26 pm

:lol:

People in the energy sector, especially, should understand their jobs aren't forever.

Isn't that basically rule #1 the old timers tell the young guns?

It's so odd how capitalists don't understand how capitalism works in tandem with democracy. If we vote to implement green energy policies, it should be up to businesses to adjust and make money off the new policies. Some die trying, which means an inefficiency is removed. Capitalism isn't perfect, it often gets stuck in terms of social and economic progress, and it's society's obligation to use its power (aka. gov't) to get the train moving again.

Corporations should be serving the people's whims, but people are serving the corporate whims at this point.
Everybody gets that, junior. But you say all that like it was just invented in the last 25 years. THAT has been the way of the US and capitalism for oh, about 250 years.
Please cite :kisswink:

It hasn't though. When corporations worked for the people (aka. more regulations and taxes), we had unmatched middle-class growth and prosperity. Pay, benefits, and stability were genuine things with more regulations. People could retire with one company, build a solid middle-class life, and even a pension retirement afterwards. Poverty was a thing of unemployment, not low-wages. And all of this never stifled innovation.

The two times we de-regulated corporate America and more-or-less had laissez faire capitalism, it eventually lead to a Great Depression and Great Recession, in addition to widening the social and economic gaps between rich and poor. There's also an argument quality of goods decreased.

I'll say this to anyone who listens, but free-market capitalists only have themselves to blame for younger people questioning the system. People work hard, they're not lazy or stupid, but what's the point if the system doesn't reward your efforts? Our society today - with capitalism - is facing the same general questions communism faces with regards to labor and effort. Government is how society fights back.
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Re: Thank you coal!

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∞∞∞ wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:50 pm
AZGrizFan wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:37 pm

Everybody gets that, junior. But you say all that like it was just invented in the last 25 years. THAT has been the way of the US and capitalism for oh, about 250 years.
Please cite :kisswink:

It hasn't though. When corporations worked for the people (aka. more regulations and taxes), we had unmatched middle-class growth and prosperity. Pay, benefits, and stability were genuine things with more regulations. People could retire with one company, build a solid middle-class life, and even a pension retirement afterwards. Poverty was a thing of unemployment, not low-wages. And all of this never stifled innovation.

The two times we de-regulated corporate America and more-or-less had laissez faire capitalism, it eventually lead to a Great Depression and Great Recession, in addition to widening the social and economic gaps between rich and poor. There's also an argument quality of goods decreased.

I'll say this to anyone who listens, but free-market capitalists only have themselves to blame for younger people questioning the system. People work hard, they're not lazy or stupid, but what's the point if the system doesn't reward your efforts? Our society today - with capitalism - is facing the same general questions communism faces with regards to labor and effort.
Holy revisionist history, Batman. :dunce: :dunce:

Seriously, what fucking history books are you reading? Have you ever heard of Vanderbilt? Rockefeller? The Copper Kings? Astor? Carnegie?

And oh, the irony of your last paragraph. Seriously, you can’t make this shit up. Work hard, but what’s the point if the system doesn’t reward your efforts? Do you not see how this directly contradicts your previous statements that 70% taxes wouldn’t discourage Americans from working hard? I literally know of NO ONE who would work like they do if 70% of their work was going to the federal government (not to mention the 7-9% going to sales tax, 2-3% going to Medicare and 1.5-2% going to social security). That don’t leave a fuck of a lot of money, bro.

You want to get “rewarded for your effort?” Pick a career path where money can be made. You want to enjoy what you do? Then don’t bitch when your salary never exceeds $50k. There may be a Venn diagram where those two choices intersect, but it’s not a god-given right that you make lots of money. Lots of stupid rich people, lots of smart poor people. The system ain’t perfect, but please name another country where people are literally dying to get into.

I’ll wait.
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Re: Thank you coal!

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There it is, typical...condescend the people, not the ones taking advantage of people.

Doesn't matter what I say, won't change your mind, but I'll simply point out America will continue its march towards socialist policies because of the lack of respect towards its workers. It's only natural that they're going to use government to protect themselves.
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Re: Thank you coal!

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∞∞∞ wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:09 pm There it is, typical...condescend the people, not the ones taking advantage of people.

Doesn't matter what I say, won't change your mind, but I'll simply point out America will continue its march towards socialist policies because of the lack of respect towards its workers. It's only natural that they're going to use government to protect themselves.
Nice complete job of ignoring the two logical fallacies in your “argument” (and I use that word VERY loosely).

And you know why you won’t change minds? Because your arguments suck. You don’t paint an accurate picture of the real world, your “historical perspective” is a joke, and your logic is fatally flawed. Seriously, it’s not EVERYONE ELSE, it’s you. Take a good hard look (I know you won’t)....
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