Thank you coal!

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HI54UNI
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Thank you coal!

Post by HI54UNI »

Thank you to coal for keeping the lights on the last 4 days at our utility. Our small utility has 11 MW of wind generation out of 3 different wind farms spread over a 70 mile area. At full output wind could produce 11 MW x 24 hours = 264 MW per day. Wind production so far this month:

8/1 - 4 MW - Potential of 18% but only 0.28% of actual load.
8/2 - 7 MW - Potential of 19% but only 0.51% of actual load.
8/3 - 21 MW - Potential of 19% but only 1.4% of actual load.
8/4 - 14 MW - Potential of 16% but only 0.85% of actual load.

And current wind energy production as I type this - zero!

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Re: Thank you coal!

Post by Grizalltheway »

Cool story. I'm sure your grandkids and great-grandkids will appreciate your staunch loyalty to a filthy and outdated energy source. :thumb:
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Re: Thank you coal!

Post by ASUG8 »

Grizalltheway wrote:Cool story. I'm sure your grandkids and great-grandkids will appreciate your staunch loyalty to a filthy and outdated energy source. :thumb:
You have a lot of wind up your way. Maybe we could cover the West and East flanks of Glacier's highest peaks with turbines and solar panels. :coffee:

NIMBY's :ohno:
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Re: Thank you coal!

Post by Ivytalk »

Grizalltheway wrote:Cool story. I'm sure your grandkids and great-grandkids will appreciate your staunch loyalty to a filthy and outdated energy source. :thumb:
Which energy source will run out first? GATW's farts, or American coal?

I rest my case. :coffee:
“Sure. I was wrong.” — 89Hen 7/27/2020
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Re: Thank you coal!

Post by HI54UNI »

I just looked again at real time. 6 kW of wind. Enough to power 2 houses! 0.008% of our load! Out of our 20,000 customers which two get power today?

Thank you coal!

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Re: Thank you coal!

Post by Baldy »

Grizalltheway wrote:Cool story. I'm sure your grandkids and great-grandkids will appreciate your staunch loyalty to a filthy and outdated energy source. :thumb:
Better than his grandkids and great-grandkids having to wash their clothes on a rock down by the stream.

Coal must not be too outdated since there isn't anything as of yet to make it obsolete. :coffee:
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Re: Thank you coal!

Post by Grizalltheway »

Ivytalk wrote:
Grizalltheway wrote:Cool story. I'm sure your grandkids and great-grandkids will appreciate your staunch loyalty to a filthy and outdated energy source. :thumb:
Which energy source will run out first? GATW's farts, or American coal?

I rest my case. :coffee:
You and the rest of the conks here could supply enough hot air to solve the world's energy problems. :kisswink:
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Re: Thank you coal!

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Grizalltheway wrote:
Ivytalk wrote: Which energy source will run out first? GATW's farts, or American coal?

I rest my case. :coffee:
You and the rest of the conks here could supply enough hot air to solve the world's energy problems. :kisswink:
And Santa should put coal in every Donk stocking for overlooking such a relatively cheap and abundant energy source. :nod:
“Sure. I was wrong.” — 89Hen 7/27/2020
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Re: Thank you coal!

Post by Grizalltheway »

ASUG8 wrote:
Grizalltheway wrote:Cool story. I'm sure your grandkids and great-grandkids will appreciate your staunch loyalty to a filthy and outdated energy source. :thumb:
You have a lot of wind up your way. Maybe we could cover the West and East flanks of Glacier's highest peaks with turbines and solar panels. :coffee:

NIMBY's :ohno:
Our larget source is hydroelectric, followed by coal, of course, as well as a decent amount of wind. I realize it's going to be a neccessary evil for the near and medium term, but there's no reason we shouldn't be trying to wean ourselves off of it sooner rather than later. :thumb:
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Re: Thank you coal!

Post by HI54UNI »

Up to 13 kW. 4 houses! But demand is up so it is only 0.018% of our needs!

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Re: Thank you coal!

Post by HI54UNI »

Baldy wrote:
Grizalltheway wrote:Cool story. I'm sure your grandkids and great-grandkids will appreciate your staunch loyalty to a filthy and outdated energy source. :thumb:
Better than his grandkids and great-grandkids having to wash their clothes on a rock down by the stream.

Coal must not be too outdated since there isn't anything as of yet to make it obsolete. :coffee:
Or freeze to death in the winter.
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Re: Thank you coal!

Post by ASUG8 »

Grizalltheway wrote:
ASUG8 wrote:
You have a lot of wind up your way. Maybe we could cover the West and East flanks of Glacier's highest peaks with turbines and solar panels. :coffee:

NIMBY's :ohno:
Our larget source is hydroelectric, followed by coal, of course, as well as a decent amount of wind. I realize it's going to be a neccessary evil for the near and medium term, but there's no reason we shouldn't be trying to wean ourselves off of it sooner rather than later. :thumb:
No disagreement here, and I don't want to see vast swaths of land covered with solar or noisy wind turbines. I don't think the technology is there yet to make these cost effective as an alternative to non-renewable resources. I even entertained putting solar on my house to help out some with our electric needs, but I can't make the numbers work over 5 years (plus my neighborhood has a lot of trees).
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Re: Thank you coal!

Post by houndawg »

ASUG8 wrote:
Grizalltheway wrote:Cool story. I'm sure your grandkids and great-grandkids will appreciate your staunch loyalty to a filthy and outdated energy source. :thumb:
You have a lot of wind up your way. Maybe we could cover the West and East flanks of Glacier's highest peaks with turbines and solar panels. :coffee:

NIMBY's :ohno:
At least he wouldn't be poisoning the air downwind. :coffee:
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Re: Thank you coal!

Post by ALPHAGRIZ1 »

Grizalltheway wrote:
Ivytalk wrote: Which energy source will run out first? GATW's farts, or American coal?

I rest my case. :coffee:
You and the rest of the conks here could supply enough hot air to solve the world's energy problems. :kisswink:
Conks don't have energy problems.......we use coal and oil.

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Re: Thank you coal!

Post by Bronco »

-
Wait until those kids and grand kids start paying the high taxes needed to pay back all this debt dear leader has laid on their future

You better start saying you didn't vote for him...they won't be happy with you
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Re: Thank you coal!

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Bronco wrote:-
Wait until those kids and grand kids start paying the high taxes needed to pay back all this debt dear leader has laid on their future

You better start saying you didn't vote for him...they won't be happy with you


And the debt Bush, et al got us into - Trillions and Trillions for his Iraqi boondoggle :ohno: :ohno:

Obama is at least trying to lower the debt. Something Bush never pretended too.






As for the OP - Coal sucks - Nuclear is the way to go :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:
:thumb:
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Re: Thank you coal!

Post by Grizalltheway »

dbackjon wrote:
Bronco wrote:-
Wait until those kids and grand kids start paying the high taxes needed to pay back all this debt dear leader has laid on their future

You better start saying you didn't vote for him...they won't be happy with you


And the debt Bush, et al got us into - Trillions and Trillions for his Iraqi boondoggle :ohno: :ohno:

Obama is at least trying to lower the debt. Something Bush never pretended too.






As for the OP - Coal sucks - Nuclear is the way to go :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:
All that hard work by Bill to fix Regean's fuck ups and balance the budget, undone by W's wannabe cowboy ass. :ohno:
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Re: Thank you coal!

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dbackjon wrote:
Bronco wrote:-
Wait until those kids and grand kids start paying the high taxes needed to pay back all this debt dear leader has laid on their future

You better start saying you didn't vote for him...they won't be happy with you


And the debt Bush, et al got us into - Trillions and Trillions for his Iraqi boondoggle :ohno: :ohno:

Obama is at least trying to lower the debt. Something Bush never pretended too.

As for the OP - Coal sucks - Nuclear is the way to go :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:
:rofl: :rofl: :dunce: :dunce: Are you really that big of a dumbass in real life, or only on here? :dunce: :dunce:

When Bush entered office Jan 20, 2001, national debt was 5.727 trillion
Whn Bush left & Obama entered office on Jan 20, 2009 national debt was 10.626 trillion.
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/debt/s ... dYear=2009" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

National debt as of yesterday 17.640 trillion
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/debt/current" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

National debt increased under Bush about about 4.9 trillion in 8 years.

National debt has increased under Obama by about 7 trillion in a little over 5 1/2 years (5 years, 6.5 months to be exact), a pace that would increase it by about 10 trillion in 8 years, DOUBLE what it increased under Bush.
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Re: Thank you coal!

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...but Bush...

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Thank you coal!

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dbackjon wrote:
Bronco wrote:-
Wait until those kids and grand kids start paying the high taxes needed to pay back all this debt dear leader has laid on their future

You better start saying you didn't vote for him...they won't be happy with you


And the debt Bush, et al got us into - Trillions and Trillions for his Iraqi boondoggle :ohno: :ohno:

Obama is at least trying to lower the debt. Something Bush never pretended too.
Oh jon, no you didn't.... :ohno:
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Re: Thank you coal!

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dbackjon wrote:
Bronco wrote:-
Wait until those kids and grand kids start paying the high taxes needed to pay back all this debt dear leader has laid on their future

You better start saying you didn't vote for him...they won't be happy with you


And the debt Bush, et al got us into - Trillions and Trillions for his Iraqi boondoggle :ohno: :ohno:

Obama is at least trying to lower the debt. Something Bush never pretended too.






As for the OP - Coal sucks - Nuclear is the way to go :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:
Bush is done.. He added ~$4.5 trillion to the debt...

0bama has two years to go and has run up ~$7.2 trillion and there is no change in the direction predicted by CBO...

Where is he trying...
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Re: Thank you coal!

Post by kalm »

You go Iowa! :clap: :mrgreen:
During 2012, Iowa produced a national record of almost 25% of all the electricity generated in the state from wind turbines. Iowa is back to first in the nation in terms of the percentage of total generation from wind energy! Iowa was also the first state in the nation to exceed 20% of total generation coming from wind energy.

As of the end of December 2012, Iowa has 5,133 megawatts of installed wind capacity which is 3nd in the nation.

Iowa's installed wind generators can produce enough power to provide electricity to over 1,500,000 average sized homes!

Iowa's wind power installations will avoid over 8.7million metric tons of carbon dioxide emissions annually. This is equivalent to taking 1,550,000 cars off the road!

MidAmerican Energy's recent announcement of another 1,050 MW of wind projects and the Rock Island Clean Line High Voltage DC project to carry 4,000 MW of wind energy to east coast markets will result in over 10,000 MW of installed wind energy capacity. This should occur by 2017 which is well ahead of IWEA's goal of 10,000 MW by 2020!
http://www.iowawindenergy.org/whywind.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Thank you coal!

Post by HI54UNI »

kalm wrote:You go Iowa! :clap: :mrgreen:
During 2012, Iowa produced a national record of almost 25% of all the electricity generated in the state from wind turbines. Iowa is back to first in the nation in terms of the percentage of total generation from wind energy! Iowa was also the first state in the nation to exceed 20% of total generation coming from wind energy.

As of the end of December 2012, Iowa has 5,133 megawatts of installed wind capacity which is 3nd in the nation.

Iowa's installed wind generators can produce enough power to provide electricity to over 1,500,000 average sized homes!

Iowa's wind power installations will avoid over 8.7million metric tons of carbon dioxide emissions annually. This is equivalent to taking 1,550,000 cars off the road!

MidAmerican Energy's recent announcement of another 1,050 MW of wind projects and the Rock Island Clean Line High Voltage DC project to carry 4,000 MW of wind energy to east coast markets will result in over 10,000 MW of installed wind energy capacity. This should occur by 2017 which is well ahead of IWEA's goal of 10,000 MW by 2020!
http://www.iowawindenergy.org/whywind.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Production in the article is on an annual basis. That's all well and good but the last 5 days are a perfect example of what will happen when the wind doesn't blow. :coffee:

And I wouldn't count on the Rock Island Clean Line project just yet. A lot of NIMBY opposition to that one including a multi-millionaire farmer who has publicly stated he will fight it in court as long as he can. :coffee:

And I would think you would be upset about all the corporate subsidies Berkshire Hathaway is receiving for building all this wind generation in Iowa. :coffee:
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Re: Thank you coal!

Post by ASUG8 »

HI54 - question for ya if you know it.

What is the cost per megawatt produced via wind vs. coal?

Edit: Looks like in some areas wind vs. gas is competitive.

http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/ ... s-and-coal" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Thank you coal!

Post by HI54UNI »

ASUG8 wrote:HI54 - question for ya if you know it.

What is the cost per megawatt produced via wind vs. coal?

Edit: Looks like in some areas wind vs. gas is competitive.

http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/ ... s-and-coal" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It depends on the age of the of the plant. if you are talking about a new plant using Powder River Basin coal the all in cost - capital and fuel - is going to be 8-10+ cents per kwh. A new wind farm, without subsidies, is going to be in the 5-7 cent per kwh range. The prices will vary depending on location, type of units, size of units/wind farms, railroad access, etc. The fuel only cost for wind is zero and a new coal plant is going to be in the 2-2.5 cent range. An existing coal plant is probably 3-4 cents per kwh all in cost with fuel cost being 1.5 - 2.5 cents, again assuming Powder River coal. Eastern coal would be higher. The article you linked is fairly accurate about the competition between gas and wind and even coal.

The subsidy to wind is the game changer. The subsidies allow the price of electricity to go below fuel cost for traditional plants (coal, natural gas, nuclear) and in some cases even go negative, i.e. someone gets paid to take electricity. The traditional plants can't turn on and off so they go to minimums and then lose money on every kwh they produce but the wind producer still makes money unless the price goes below a negative 2.2 cents. But the traditional plants are still needed for the times the wind isn't blowing. Some argue that the true cost of wind is really 10-12 cents per kwh because you should factor in that somewhere a natural gas fired generator has to be built to back the wind up.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/02/ ... 2920080228

Wind in general is OK. Even without the subsidy it can compete with the cost of new generation. But it is not the panacea that many think it is.
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