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What We Knew After 9/11

Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 5:48 am
by kalm
The two examples are from moderate conservatives, and he could have used Bill Krystol's "facts" following 9/11 (too easy) but the point is that nuance ain't always a bad thing. Beware of big reactionary ideas from both sides and their consequences.

Damn good piece. :nod:
It wasn't just the facts that people were wrongly certain about, it was the way they were so sure of themselves. Here's the type of argumentation I mean, in a June 2002 piece that came across my desk earlier this week, written by Larry Kudlow at National Review. Sample:

With weapons of mass destruction at his disposal, and through his financing of terrorism worldwide, Saddam is a dangerous loose end.

Decisive shock therapy to revive the American spirit would surely come with a U.S. invasion of Iraq. Why not begin with a large-scale special-forces commando raid on the Iraqi oil fields? This will send a shot across Saddam's bow; an electrifying signal to all terrorist nations. The message will be that the game is up. Surrender now or you will be crushed in a short while. […]

A couple of weeks later a final assault on Baghdad can take place. A small war, to use Wall Street Journal editorialist Max Boot's lexicon, led by fast-moving special forces and leather-toughened Marines, and assisted by high-tech precision bombs and air cover, can get the job done. All-out war mobilization is unnecessary. Iraq will fall with much less. […]

[S]tatements of principle only go so far. The spirit and security of the United States now require the instrument of war.

The shock therapy of decisive war will elevate the stock market by a couple-thousand points. We will know that our businesses will stay open, that our families will be safe, and that our future will be unlimited. The world will be righted in this life-and-death struggle to preserve our values and our civilization. But to do all this, we must act.


This is another Iraq example, from David Brooks in March 2003, but it best illustrates the mindset I'm talking about:

any poor rube can come to a simple conclusion—that President Saddam Hussein is a menace who must be disarmed—but the refined ratiocinators want to be seen luxuriating amid the difficulties, donning the jewels of nuance, even to the point of self-paralysis. But those who actually have to lead and protect, and actually have to build one step on another, have to bring some questions to a close.

What would happen in a world where humans, including those in or near power, freely admitted that they don't know how to stop ISIS, can't tell the difference between a Yazidi and and Assyrian, have no convincing explanation for why crime stats are fluctuating this year, and don't know why Billy Beane's shit doesn't work in the playoffs? For one, I think people would be a little less likely to champion or sign up for giant, mass-mobilizing schemes. If we are humble in the face of facts, and mindful of the unforeseen consequences that come with every grand plan, we might be more cautious about bending a sprawling nation's resources and will in one direction or another. Hence the pro-interventionist anxiety: We don't know will too easily translate into We won't act.
https://reason.com/blog/2015/09/11/my-9 ... -dont-know" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: What We Knew After 9/11

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:11 am
by Chizzang
This is awesome... great writer (Hilarious)

"With half of Republican voters currently supporting Great Man-theory novices, and virtually all Democrats lining up behind candidates with unshakeable confidence in the liberating power of government, it doesn't appear that we will learn that lesson any time soon."


:rofl: That ^ is funny sh!t right there

Re: What We Knew After 9/11

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 11:58 pm
by expandspanos

Re: What We Knew After 9/11

Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:35 am
by CID1990
Chizzang wrote:This is awesome... great writer (Hilarious)

"With half of Republican voters currently supporting Great Man-theory novices, and virtually all Democrats lining up behind candidates with unshakeable confidence in the liberating power of government, it doesn't appear that we will learn that lesson any time soon."


:rofl: That ^ is funny sh!t right there
Half of Republican voters vs "virtually all" Democrat voters?

So it looks like one side has a monopoly on moonbats, while the other side is only halfway there

Re: What We Knew After 9/11

Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:22 am
by Ivytalk
I love Matt Welch's style, even though I don't always agree with him. Two of my favorite Welch quotes are his capsule descriptions of Donald Trump ("a face like an anus") and the Hildabeast ("RELENTLESSLY UNLOVABLE GRANDMOTHER"). Pardon the caps-lock.

With respect to the quoted piece, I wish Matt and other Libertarians would move beyond the "facts are humbling" stage -- I think we can all agree on that -- and articulate a rational basis for the use of force. In an age of domestic terrorism and cyber-warfare, when is such use justified?