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Wait...JSO said tariffs were bad, and that Trump and his idea of tariffs was stupid and would destroy the world's economy?

And China isn't manipulating its currency (or, by direct extension, manipulating its foreign trade).

And Hillary is saying she is an extension of Obama's terms in office.

And JSO is supporting Hillary.

Well...whoops!

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-c ... SKCN0Y82ER

"China to support steel exports as U.S. imposes hefty tariffs.

China said it would persist with controversial tax rebates to steel exporters to support the sector's painful restructuring, defying a United States move to impose punitive import duties on Chinese steel products."







Trump tariff's be da debbil. But, Obomba and (by default) Hillary tariffs are worth voting for.








Attention JSO...you should learn a LOT more about foreign trade, currency manipulation, and government subsidies before you spout out silly, and ignorant, shots at Trump and his ideas.

I'll give you a break though...you are a simple man from the back woods of Loooooooosiana.

Let me know if I can help in any way.

China doesn't play fair, why should we?

Granting the world’s largest trading nation Market Economy Status (MES) is one of the thorniest issues in Europe right now, splitting the continent and dividing public opinion. Critics of awarding China this rather obscure World Trade Organization status argue it would severely impact governments’ ability to slap anti-dumping duties on cheap Chinese imports. These levies are imposed on goods originating from firms that are unable to prove they operate under normal market economy conditions, but have in fact benefited from government subsidies or other state intervention. If a government believes imports are priced below their real market value, it can apply these tariffs to ensure artificially cheap products shipped in from overseas do not affect domestic firms.

If China were to be awarded MES, EU and U.S. regulators would have a much harder time imposing these duties on cheap imports, potentially putting whole industries and thousands of jobs at risk. MES would allow Chinese companies to flood WTO member states with cheap products, leaving them almost powerless to impose levies to protect their domestic markets. The collapse of Tata Steel’s operation in the UK can be viewed as a cautionary tale of the potential consequences of a MES-empowered China.

According to research conducted by Professor Robert Scott, a director at the Washington-based Economic Policy Institute, as many as 3.5 million European jobs would be at risk if the EU grants China MES. Separately, the European Commission has forecast the loss of nearly 80% of the almost 250,000 jobs in manufacturing industries covered by anti-dumping measures in Italy, Germany, Spain, France, Portugal and Poland if China achieves the status it is pushing for.

The U.S. and the EU are taking divergent approaches to the question of China’s ascension to MES. The U.S. government appears intent on not granting the country the status it feels it should automatically be awarded, while some EU member states are in favor of such a move, notably the UK and Germany.

http://foreignpolicyblogs.com/2016/04/1 ... ambitions/

Its very easy to find articles by people contending that Trump's tariff ideas are bad. A few:

http://money.cnn.com/2016/03/03/news/ec ... -business/

A new tariff -- and therefore, a higher import cost -- would simply push U.S. companies to raise prices in order to keep turning a profit. That means the average shopper in the U.S. would be forced to pay more.

Actually, you shouldn't need to have an entrepreneur say that. It's common sense.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall ... 2669d77f6b

Donald Trump certainly adds to the joy and gaiety of politics, but that doesn’t mean that he’s not capable of some entirely crackpot economic ideas. One example? What he’s just told the New York Times he wants to try: a 45% tax on all imports from China. This is not just abject populism, but also somewhere between foolish and insane as a piece of economic policy.

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/08/26/why-trum ... ntary.html

Here's a historical fact that Donald Trump, and many voters attracted to him, may not know: The last American president who was a trade protectionist was Republican Herbert Hoover.

Does Trump aspire to be a 21st century Hoover with a modernized platform of the 1930 Smoot-Hawley tariff that helped send the U.S. and world economy into a decade-long depression and a collapse of the banking system?

Plenty, plenty more out there. I don't know if you're even serious or if you're just jerking chains again. Meanwhile, we'll see what happens with the price of steel available to buyers in the United States. Also, yes, Obama went with a tariff. But neither he nor HIllary has shown the kind of devotion to protectionism that Trump has. Or at least as much as Trump SAYS he has. Who really knows since you can't believe a word he says about anything? I guess you could hope that he's just demagoguing to get votes and once he's elected he won't do the crazy shit he says he's going to do.

JohnStOnge wrote:Its very easy to find articles by people contending that Trump's tariff ideas are bad. A few:

http://money.cnn.com/2016/03/03/news/ec ... -business/

A new tariff -- and therefore, a higher import cost -- would simply push U.S. companies to raise prices in order to keep turning a profit. That means the average shopper in the U.S. would be forced to pay more.

Actually, you shouldn't need to have an entrepreneur say that. It's common sense.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall ... 2669d77f6b

Donald Trump certainly adds to the joy and gaiety of politics, but that doesn’t mean that he’s not capable of some entirely crackpot economic ideas. One example? What he’s just told the New York Times he wants to try: a 45% tax on all imports from China. This is not just abject populism, but also somewhere between foolish and insane as a piece of economic policy.

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/08/26/why-trum ... ntary.html

Here's a historical fact that Donald Trump, and many voters attracted to him, may not know: The last American president who was a trade protectionist was Republican Herbert Hoover.

Does Trump aspire to be a 21st century Hoover with a modernized platform of the 1930 Smoot-Hawley tariff that helped send the U.S. and world economy into a decade-long depression and a collapse of the banking system?

Plenty, plenty more out there. I don't know if you're even serious or if you're just jerking chains again. Meanwhile, we'll see what happens with the price of steel available to buyers in the United States. Also, yes, Obama went with a tariff. But neither he nor HIllary has shown the kind of devotion to protectionism that Trump has. Or at least as much as Trump SAYS he has. Who really knows since you can't believe a word he says about anything? I guess you could hope that he's just demagoguing to get votes and once he's elected he won't do the crazy shit he says he's going to do.

CNBC, Money, and Forbes. Yeah they aren't biased when it comes to trade policy...at all!

Hillary wasn't entirely responsible for this but it was her state department:

2011, WikiLeaks released a set of previously-secret diplomatic cables. The American publication The Nation partnered with Haitian news organization Haïti Liberté to cover them, finding (among other things) how strongly the United States had opposed the minimum wage hike:


To resolve the impasse between the factory owners and Parliament, the State Department urged quick intervention by then Haitian President René Préval.

“A more visible and active engagement by Préval may be critical to resolving the issue of the minimum wage and its protest ‘spin-off’—or risk the political environment spiraling out of control,” argued US Ambassador Janet Sanderson in a June 10, 2009, cable back to Washington.

Two months later Préval negotiated a deal with Parliament to create a two-tiered minimum wage increase—one for the textile industry at about $3 per day and one for all other industrial and commercial sectors at about $5 per day.

Still the US Embassy wasn't pleased. A deputy chief of mission, David E. Lindwall, said the $5 per day minimum “did not take economic reality into account” but was a populist measure aimed at appealing to “the unemployed and underpaid masses.”

The Obama administration (and the Bush administration before it) had been closely monitoring the situation in the garment manufacturing sector for a long time. In 2006, Congress passed the HOPE bill (which stood for the Haitian Hemispheric Opportunity through Partnership Encouragement) and provided duty-free entry to garments manufactured in Haiti for U.S. companies. That body also passed an updated version of the bill (HOPE II) in 2008, which mandated a framework for labor reform in factories. According to cables released by WikiLeaks, it was exactly these efforts that the United States claimed would be jeopardized by a higher minimum wage.

So it's true that the State Department (then led by Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State) strongly opposed a minimum wage increase in Haiti in 2009. However, the State Department's efforts did not occur in a political or economic vacuum, and Clinton wasn't the sole architect of efforts to quash a minimum wage hike (as the meme suggests). It was a concerted effort on the part of Haitian elites, factory owners, free trade proponents, U.S. politicians, economists, and American companies that kept the minimum wage so low, and to lay the blame squarely at the feet of any sitting Secretary of State would be an incomplete assessment, and thus inaccurate.

http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-s ... imum-wage/

HOPE II!!!!

Free trade!!!

Hey Haiti, you keep those wages low and you can forget about the duty's. We needs some cheap sneakers!

CNBC, Money, and Forbes. Yeah they aren't biased when it comes to trade policy...at all!

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/03/us/po ... .html?_r=0

Starting a trade war might be cathartic for workers who have lost jobs, but it is unlikely to create a lot of factory work.

“There’s no way a tariff of this kind could deliver the kind of benefits that he’s talking about, and it’s quite wrong to think that the big problem for American workers has been foreign trade,” said J .W. Mason, a professor of economics at John Jay College and a fellow at the Roosevelt Institute, a liberal think tank. “But I think it could be very destructive for the rest of the world.”

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-e ... SKCN0WQ0WG

Donald Trump's threats to slap steep tariffs on Chinese and Mexican imports may have won him votes in Republican primaries but they would likely backfire, severely disrupting U.S. manufacturers that increasingly depend on global supply chains.

I guess you can keep attacking sources and I can keep providing other sources sharing that basic outlook if you want. But, really, common sense ought to tell you that slapping tariff's on China is not going to bring back US manufacturing jobs but WILL raise the cost of living for US consumers. People complain about China but if tomorrow you could somehow force production of all the goods China produces for sale here back to the United States there would be absolute outrage after the resulting significant increase in costs to consumers.

JohnStOnge wrote:

CNBC, Money, and Forbes. Yeah they aren't biased when it comes to trade policy...at all!

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/03/us/po ... .html?_r=0

Starting a trade war might be cathartic for workers who have lost jobs, but it is unlikely to create a lot of factory work.

“There’s no way a tariff of this kind could deliver the kind of benefits that he’s talking about, and it’s quite wrong to think that the big problem for American workers has been foreign trade,” said J .W. Mason, a professor of economics at John Jay College and a fellow at the Roosevelt Institute, a liberal think tank. “But I think it could be very destructive for the rest of the world.”

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-e ... SKCN0WQ0WG

Donald Trump's threats to slap steep tariffs on Chinese and Mexican imports may have won him votes in Republican primaries but they would likely backfire, severely disrupting U.S. manufacturers that increasingly depend on global supply chains.

I guess you can keep attacking sources and I can keep providing other sources sharing that basic outlook if you want. But, really, common sense ought to tell you that slapping tariff's on China is not going to bring back US manufacturing jobs but WILL raise the cost of living for US consumers. People complain about China but if tomorrow you could somehow force production of all the goods China produces for sale here back to the United States there would be absolute outrage after the resulting significant increase in costs to consumers.

China imposes tariffs.

JFC, JSO gets dumber in each subsequent thread.

JSO...you should really stay out of the threads that are meant for adults. You continue to show your ignorance regarding international trade.

Cluck U wrote:JFC, JSO gets dumber in each subsequent thread.

JSO...you should really stay out of the threads that are meant for adults. You continue to show your ignorance regarding international trade.

You're being ridiculous. You can Google around by typing in something like "Trump trade policies." About the only positive thing you'll see about what he's suggesting will be from "donaldtrump.com." Also breitbart.com, which is well known to be supporting Trump. This is the kind of thing you're going to see:



I'm having difficulty believing that kalm really buys Trump's crap. I think he's jerking chains. But for others: Defending Trump on trade is an example of what I'm talking about with respect to Trump supporters suspending their critical thinking skills in order to justify supporting the guy. You shouldn't NEED to even Google around to see what people are saying. Common sense ought to tell you that what Trump is proposing would do nothing but raise the cost of living for people living in the United States.

JSO, you keep reaching for something that proves your theory...but you aren't listening to reality.

We have tariffs. So do other countries. We have all sorts of other things with fancy names and attached to something our politicians passed, and so do other countries, that try to give an advantage to one company or another.

So, tell me...has the world crashed into the sun?

And, notice that I said, "company."

That's right. If your company gives enough money to politicians, you can have some wonderful walls put up to ensure that your company gets favorable treatment in regards to our trade policies.

You must know that....right?

All you have to do is look it up.

Once you admit that there are already these ugly boogie monsters out there, and that the world keeps keeping on, then maybe you, and all of those economists, can take a chill pill and stop predicting, quite inaccurately, that Trump will crash the world's markets.

Oh, and since when is COL your top concern? If too many people don't have jobs, the COL is worthless. Surely you understand that unemployment means that you do not have money to spend on those consumer goods you seem concerned about...so WTF is the difference between a $2 toy and a $4 toy?

Fear...that is all you have, because you do not have reality on your side.

You know what Trump has? He wants to make better deals...and punish those folks who don't want to give us a better deal. Here's a hint...we ALREADY DO THAT. But, we only do it for people with connections. Hello? Are you still listening. WE ALREADY DO WHAT TRUMP WANTS TO DO...WE JUST DO IT ON A SMALLER SCALE SO THAT IT BENEFITS ONLY THE ONES WHO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY OR CONNECTIONS TO PAY TO PLAY.

For some reason, you can't understand that concept.

You are being fooled by some economists that are no more correct than the gobs of Trickle Down folks, or the Keynesian folks, or any other two-bit economist (or any clown employed to write articles for money magazines). The people you are citing are writing this crap for the people who are making money off your foolishness.

Face it, you are out of your league here, JSO. I have friends who have businesses in China, Mexico, Belgium, and Canada. I've worked in finance. I've worked in investments. You, and almost everyone else, has no idea of how rigged the system is, so please stop digging your heels in and looking stupid.

But, to bring it down to your level, find me one single person that would not want to negotiate a better deal. And then find me the person (who you seem to think exists) that takes a crappy deal so that the rest of his neighborhood, or city, or state, or country, or world, or solar system, would not get mad at him as they enjoy the benefits of their better deal.

You've gone from one of the most analytical poster to one of the most uninformed, crybaby posters. It has been a sad, yet funny, transition to watch.

Cluck U wrote:JSO, you keep reaching for something that proves your theory...but you aren't listening to reality.

We have tariffs. So do other countries. We have all sorts of other things with fancy names and attached to something our politicians passed, and so do other countries, that try to give an advantage to one company or another.

So, tell me...has the world crashed into the sun?

And, notice that I said, "company."

That's right. If your company gives enough money to politicians, you can have some wonderful walls put up to ensure that your company gets favorable treatment in regards to our trade policies.

You must know that....right?

All you have to do is look it up.

Once you admit that there are already these ugly boogie monsters out there, and that the world keeps keeping on, then maybe you, and all of those economists, can take a chill pill and stop predicting, quite inaccurately, that Trump will crash the world's markets.

Oh, and since when is COL your top concern? If too many people don't have jobs, the COL is worthless. Surely you understand that unemployment means that you do not have money to spend on those consumer goods you seem concerned about...so WTF is the difference between a $2 toy and a $4 toy?

Fear...that is all you have, because you do not have reality on your side.

You know what Trump has? He wants to make better deals...and punish those folks who don't want to give us a better deal. Here's a hint...we ALREADY DO THAT. But, we only do it for people with connections. Hello? Are you still listening. WE ALREADY DO WHAT TRUMP WANTS TO DO...WE JUST DO IT ON A SMALLER SCALE SO THAT IT BENEFITS ONLY THE ONES WHO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY OR CONNECTIONS TO PAY TO PLAY.

For some reason, you can't understand that concept.

You are being fooled by some economists that are no more correct than the gobs of Trickle Down folks, or the Keynesian folks, or any other two-bit economist (or any clown employed to write articles for money magazines). The people you are citing are writing this crap for the people who are making money off your foolishness.

Face it, you are out of your league here, JSO. I have friends who have businesses in China, Mexico, Belgium, and Canada. I've worked in finance. I've worked in investments. You, and almost everyone else, has no idea of how rigged the system is, so please stop digging your heels in and looking stupid.

But, to bring it down to your level, find me one single person that would not want to negotiate a better deal. And then find me the person (who you seem to think exists) that takes a crappy deal so that the rest of his neighborhood, or city, or state, or country, or world, or solar system, would not get mad at him as they enjoy the benefits of their better deal.

You've gone from one of the most analytical poster to one of the most uninformed, crybaby posters. It has been a sad, yet funny, transition to watch.

Ding, ding, ding!

JSO, I've never said Trump is my guy.

Cluck nails this perfectly here.

The system is a rigged game and Trump at least is somewhat honest about it unlike most politicians or status quo moderates who believe everything the establishment media writes about economics. Wait...you mean to tell me the folks at US News, CNBC, and CNN support the current arrangement of "free trade"??? Get the fuck out of here!!!

Cluck U wrote:JSO, you keep reaching for something that proves your theory...but you aren't listening to reality.

We have tariffs. So do other countries. We have all sorts of other things with fancy names and attached to something our politicians passed, and so do other countries, that try to give an advantage to one company or another.

So, tell me...has the world crashed into the sun?

And, notice that I said, "company."

That's right. If your company gives enough money to politicians, you can have some wonderful walls put up to ensure that your company gets favorable treatment in regards to our trade policies.

You must know that....right?

All you have to do is look it up.

Once you admit that there are already these ugly boogie monsters out there, and that the world keeps keeping on, then maybe you, and all of those economists, can take a chill pill and stop predicting, quite inaccurately, that Trump will crash the world's markets.

Oh, and since when is COL your top concern? If too many people don't have jobs, the COL is worthless. Surely you understand that unemployment means that you do not have money to spend on those consumer goods you seem concerned about...so WTF is the difference between a $2 toy and a $4 toy?

Fear...that is all you have, because you do not have reality on your side.

You know what Trump has? He wants to make better deals...and punish those folks who don't want to give us a better deal. Here's a hint...we ALREADY DO THAT. But, we only do it for people with connections. Hello? Are you still listening. WE ALREADY DO WHAT TRUMP WANTS TO DO...WE JUST DO IT ON A SMALLER SCALE SO THAT IT BENEFITS ONLY THE ONES WHO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY OR CONNECTIONS TO PAY TO PLAY.

For some reason, you can't understand that concept.

You are being fooled by some economists that are no more correct than the gobs of Trickle Down folks, or the Keynesian folks, or any other two-bit economist (or any clown employed to write articles for money magazines). The people you are citing are writing this crap for the people who are making money off your foolishness.

Face it, you are out of your league here, JSO. I have friends who have businesses in China, Mexico, Belgium, and Canada. I've worked in finance. I've worked in investments. You, and almost everyone else, has no idea of how rigged the system is, so please stop digging your heels in and looking stupid.

But, to bring it down to your level, find me one single person that would not want to negotiate a better deal. And then find me the person (who you seem to think exists) that takes a crappy deal so that the rest of his neighborhood, or city, or state, or country, or world, or solar system, would not get mad at him as they enjoy the benefits of their better deal.

You've gone from one of the most analytical poster to one of the most uninformed, crybaby posters. It has been a sad, yet funny, transition to watch.

.

Welcome folks, it's the top of the 7th and we've got the Confused Cajun approaching the mound. JSO has been throwing whoppers all season folks and here's the windup. Boom! It's a junk ball.

Cluck, #69.3 digs in, leans into the pitch and ...WHACK!!! It's. Sailing over the walls folks. Home run! Home run!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ibanez wrote:

Cluck U wrote:JSO, you keep reaching for something that proves your theory...but you aren't listening to reality.

We have tariffs. So do other countries. We have all sorts of other things with fancy names and attached to something our politicians passed, and so do other countries, that try to give an advantage to one company or another.

So, tell me...has the world crashed into the sun?

And, notice that I said, "company."

That's right. If your company gives enough money to politicians, you can have some wonderful walls put up to ensure that your company gets favorable treatment in regards to our trade policies.

You must know that....right?

All you have to do is look it up.

Once you admit that there are already these ugly boogie monsters out there, and that the world keeps keeping on, then maybe you, and all of those economists, can take a chill pill and stop predicting, quite inaccurately, that Trump will crash the world's markets.

Oh, and since when is COL your top concern? If too many people don't have jobs, the COL is worthless. Surely you understand that unemployment means that you do not have money to spend on those consumer goods you seem concerned about...so WTF is the difference between a $2 toy and a $4 toy?

Fear...that is all you have, because you do not have reality on your side.

You know what Trump has? He wants to make better deals...and punish those folks who don't want to give us a better deal. Here's a hint...we ALREADY DO THAT. But, we only do it for people with connections. Hello? Are you still listening. WE ALREADY DO WHAT TRUMP WANTS TO DO...WE JUST DO IT ON A SMALLER SCALE SO THAT IT BENEFITS ONLY THE ONES WHO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY OR CONNECTIONS TO PAY TO PLAY.

For some reason, you can't understand that concept.

You are being fooled by some economists that are no more correct than the gobs of Trickle Down folks, or the Keynesian folks, or any other two-bit economist (or any clown employed to write articles for money magazines). The people you are citing are writing this crap for the people who are making money off your foolishness.

Face it, you are out of your league here, JSO. I have friends who have businesses in China, Mexico, Belgium, and Canada. I've worked in finance. I've worked in investments. You, and almost everyone else, has no idea of how rigged the system is, so please stop digging your heels in and looking stupid.

But, to bring it down to your level, find me one single person that would not want to negotiate a better deal. And then find me the person (who you seem to think exists) that takes a crappy deal so that the rest of his neighborhood, or city, or state, or country, or world, or solar system, would not get mad at him as they enjoy the benefits of their better deal.

You've gone from one of the most analytical poster to one of the most uninformed, crybaby posters. It has been a sad, yet funny, transition to watch.

.

Welcome folks, it's the top of the 7th and we've got the Confused Cajun approaching the mound. JSO has been throwing whoppers all season folks and here's the windup. Boom! It's a junk ball.

Cluck, #69.3 digs in, leans into the pitch and ...WHACK!!! It's. Sailing over the walls folks. Home run! Home run!!

"Look at that, he hit the fvcking bull!"

Cluck just hate crimed JSO

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Welcome folks, it's the top of the 7th and we've got the Confused Cajun approaching the mound. JSO has been throwing whoppers all season folks and here's the windup. Boom! It's a junk ball.

Cluck, #69.3 digs in, leans into the pitch and ...WHACK!!! It's. Sailing over the walls folks. Home run! Home run!!

No whoppers at all. I've backed up everything I've said. You guys are simply illustrating the problem with suspension of critical thinking on the part of Trump supporters.

BTW, I don't know if it was in this thread that I mentioned it but here's an article on the subject of a CNN piece I saw:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/26/politics/ ... eign-made/

So. Trump says he moved his clothing manufacturer from Honduras, where the average factory worker was making $1.30 an hour, to Bangladesh, where the average factory worker makes $0.33 an hour, "due to the extreme currency manipulation by countries like China."

That's right. Trump wouldn't be manufacturing clothes in Bangladesh where workers get less than a dollar an hour if ONLY China wasn't devaluing its currency. Never mind the fact that China hasn't been doing that recently.

See the "Reality check" link in the article.

And, also of course, you guys buy Trump's crap anyway because for some reason you've decided you're for Trump and you're going to rationalize your way around anything that might snap you into recognizing the reality of what this guy is.

At least for now. Hopefully the evidence of just what a piece of dishonest, con man shit this guy is will reach critical mass for you at some point.

ALPHAGRIZ1 wrote:Cluck just hate crimed JSO

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

At this point Cluck is probably realizing, at least subconsciously, that he is trying to defend the indefensible. Maybe the stuff that came out today about the Trump University scam will move him a little closer to dealing with the reality of the situation.

JohnStOnge wrote:

Welcome folks, it's the top of the 7th and we've got the Confused Cajun approaching the mound. JSO has been throwing whoppers all season folks and here's the windup. Boom! It's a junk ball.

Cluck, #69.3 digs in, leans into the pitch and ...WHACK!!! It's. Sailing over the walls folks. Home run! Home run!!

No whoppers at all. I've backed up everything I've said. You guys are simply illustrating the problem with suspension of critical thinking on the part of Trump supporters.

BTW, I don't know if it was in this thread that I mentioned it but here's an article on the subject of a CNN piece I saw:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/26/politics/ ... eign-made/

So. Trump says he moved his clothing manufacturer from Honduras, where the average factory worker was making $1.30 an hour, to Bangladesh, where the average factory worker makes $0.33 an hour, "due to the extreme currency manipulation by countries like China."

That's right. Trump wouldn't be manufacturing clothes in Bangladesh where workers get less than a dollar an hour if ONLY China wasn't devaluing its currency. Never mind the fact that China hasn't been doing that recently.

See the "Reality check" link in the article.

And, also of course, you guys buy Trump's crap anyway because for some reason you've decided you're for Trump and you're going to rationalize your way around anything that might snap you into recognizing the reality of what this guy is.

At least for now. Hopefully the evidence of just what a piece of dishonest, con man shit this guy is will reach critical mass for you at some point.

So you're upset with him for simultaneously taking advantage of existing reality while pointing out how flawed the system is?

Oh good grief!

JohnStOnge wrote:

Welcome folks, it's the top of the 7th and we've got the Confused Cajun approaching the mound. JSO has been throwing whoppers all season folks and here's the windup. Boom! It's a junk ball.

Cluck, #69.3 digs in, leans into the pitch and ...WHACK!!! It's. Sailing over the walls folks. Home run! Home run!!

No whoppers at all. I've backed up everything I've said. You guys are simply illustrating the problem with suspension of critical thinking on the part of Trump supporters.

BTW, I don't know if it was in this thread that I mentioned it but here's an article on the subject of a CNN piece I saw:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/26/politics/ ... eign-made/

So. Trump says he moved his clothing manufacturer from Honduras, where the average factory worker was making $1.30 an hour, to Bangladesh, where the average factory worker makes $0.33 an hour, "due to the extreme currency manipulation by countries like China."

That's right. Trump wouldn't be manufacturing clothes in Bangladesh where workers get less than a dollar an hour if ONLY China wasn't devaluing its currency. Never mind the fact that China hasn't been doing that recently.

See the "Reality check" link in the article.

And, also of course, you guys buy Trump's crap anyway because for some reason you've decided you're for Trump and you're going to rationalize your way around anything that might snap you into recognizing the reality of what this guy is.

At least for now. Hopefully the evidence of just what a piece of dishonest, con man shit this guy is will reach critical mass for you at some point.

You've backed up everything you said?



You are not listening.

If I back up a belief in the Tooth Fairy with a bunch of 5 year old kids saying it exists...that doesn't mean it exists.

I've told you...WE ALREADY MANIPULATE TRADE.

Fact.

Why are you denying that fact?

I'll repeat the question...in fact, I'll ask you a few questions to help you wrap your Zika sized head around the issue:

1) DO YOU DENY THE U.S. ALREADY MANIPULATES OUR TRADE?

2) DO YOU DENY THAT OTHER COUNTRIES MANIPULATE THEIR TRADE?

3) DO YOU DENY WE PLACE TARIFFS ON CERTAIN TYPES OF TRADE GOODS (I'll give you a hint...about 30% of our imported goods already involve a tariff)?

4) DO YOU DENY THAT OTHER COUNTRIES USE TARIFFS?

5) DO YOU DENY THAT WE, AND OTHER COUNTRIES, MANIPULATE THEIR CURRENCIES?

6) AS A RESULT OF THE ABOVE, HAS THE WORLD CRASHED INTO THE SUN?

You're getting you ass handed to you on this thread because you are ignorant about the things you are posting.

No matter how you try to back up your ass ertation that Trump will destroy the world's economy, you are simply tossing out gibberish and fear based nonsense.

Oh, and your infatuation with Hillary is blinding you to the fact that she supported NAFTA. Of course, she now says she didn't support NAFTA.

Hey, how'd that work out?

The United States has uses tariff's to some extent. Much less so in recent history but some. The latest number I could quickly find on the total amount of US tariffs was for 2010. It was about $25 billion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariffs_i ... ite_note-1). Scroll down some. Wikipedia, but it's all I can find.

Donald Trump threw out the idea of a 45% tariff on all Chinese goods sold in the United States. For 2015 45% of the value of Chinese goods sold in the United States is about $217 billion dollars.

And, since you're big on finances, what impact do you think that would have on American consumers?

It's more than that anyway. Trump demagogues and gins up resentment while suggesting solutions that are absurd. Like talking about Chinese currency devaluation when they haven't been doing that in recent years. And saying he moved his operation to a country where people make $0.30 per hour because the Chinese are devaluing their currency. Do you REALLY buy that shit? Really?

BTW when I googled information on tariff's I came across these:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall ... 9bc58d27d5

Here's the headline:

US Steel Tariffs Against China Are Working: Americans Losing Jobs, Becoming Poorer As A Result

Read if you wish. Another.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... -u-s-jobs/

An economic model of Trump's proposals, prepared by Moody's Analytics at the request of The Washington Post, suggests Trump is half-right about his plans. They would, in fact, sock it to China and Mexico. Both would fall into recession, the model suggests, if Trump levied his proposed tariffs and those countries retaliated with tariffs of their own.

Unfortunately, the United States would fall into recession, too. Up to 4 million American workers would lose their jobs. Another 3 million jobs would not be created that otherwise would have been, had the country not fallen into a trade-induced downturn.

Look, I know there is a lot of uncertainty associated with economic modeling. But the point is that I am by no means the only one saying this. And I'm not saying to go on the basis of models. I'm saying to just use your head. Trump is pretty obviously completely nuts.

(Howard Cosell voice)

Down goes JSO! Down goes JSO!

houndawg wrote:(Howard Cosell voice)

Down goes JSO! Down goes JSO!

Not at all. The preponderance of opinion and information is on my side on this one. I'll ask you like I asked Cluck:

What do you think would happen if we put a 45% tariff on all Chinese goods sold in the United States? Do you think that would be a positive thing for the "typical" American?

Also, do you buy Trump's claim that he moved his clothing factory from a country where people make $1.30 an hour to one where they make $0.30 per hour because the Chinese have been devaluing their currency? And oh by the way the Chinese have not been devaluing their currency recently. Just a small detail you should be aware of before deciding if you should buy his claim.

JohnStOnge wrote:The United States has uses tariff's to some extent. Much less so in recent history but some. The latest number I could quickly find on the total amount of US tariffs was for 2010. It was about $25 billion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariffs_i ... ite_note-1). Scroll down some. Wikipedia, but it's all I can find.

Donald Trump threw out the idea of a 45% tariff on all Chinese goods sold in the United States. For 2015 45% of the value of Chinese goods sold in the United States is about $217 billion dollars.

And, since you're big on finances, what impact do you think that would have on American consumers?

It's more than that anyway. Trump demagogues and gins up resentment while suggesting solutions that are absurd. Like talking about Chinese currency devaluation when they haven't been doing that in recent years. And saying he moved his operation to a country where people make $0.30 per hour because the Chinese are devaluing their currency. Do you REALLY buy that shit? Really?

BTW when I googled information on tariff's I came across these:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall ... 9bc58d27d5

Here's the headline:

US Steel Tariffs Against China Are Working: Americans Losing Jobs, Becoming Poorer As A Result

Read if you wish. Another.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... -u-s-jobs/

An economic model of Trump's proposals, prepared by Moody's Analytics at the request of The Washington Post, suggests Trump is half-right about his plans. They would, in fact, sock it to China and Mexico. Both would fall into recession, the model suggests, if Trump levied his proposed tariffs and those countries retaliated with tariffs of their own.

Unfortunately, the United States would fall into recession, too. Up to 4 million American workers would lose their jobs. Another 3 million jobs would not be created that otherwise would have been, had the country not fallen into a trade-induced downturn.

Look, I know there is a lot of uncertainty associated with economic modeling. But the point is that I am by no means the only one saying this. And I'm not saying to go on the basis of models. I'm saying to just use your head. Trump is pretty obviously completely nuts.

You refuse to believe the overwhelming number of scientists, and their writings, that support the idea of Global Warming. Yet you believe in a bunch of economists that predict the world's economy will crash because of a few tariffs?



Hey, I could make your head spin with details about trade and tariffs, and some inside stories about how things are done out of sight behind the curtain, but you wouldn't listen anyway.

So we'll try a different look.

When you look at the current economy, we have plenty of good paying jobs and no one is in debt, right? Full employment...full speed ahead.

No?

Wonder why?

Tell you what...since you believe so much in the intelligence of the people who wrote the stuff in your links, can you find me ONE article that has a proven solution to improving our economy?

Just one.

I'll wait.

And to provide some past history of an accurate record of forecasting, to lend credence to their current predictions, I'll let you go back several decades so you can dig up something from those sources, concrete ideas, that actually provided answers to getting Americans back to work. After all, the geniuses you cite, with all of the foresight, should have been able to solve our economic woes over the decades, and if we had listened to their forecasts, we'd have full employment and no poverty, right?

Ball is in your court, JSO. Should be an easy assignment. Let me know what you find.

JohnStOnge wrote:

houndawg wrote:(Howard Cosell voice)

Down goes JSO! Down goes JSO!

Not at all. The preponderance of opinion and information is on my side on this one. I'll ask you like I asked Cluck:

What do you think would happen if we put a 45% tariff on all Chinese goods sold in the United States? Do you think that would be a positive thing for the "typical" American?

Also, do you buy Trump's claim that he moved his clothing factory from a country where people make $1.30 an hour to one where they make $0.30 per hour because the Chinese have been devaluing their currency? And oh by the way the Chinese have not been devaluing their currency recently. Just a small detail you should be aware of before deciding if you should buy his claim.

Are you sure the President has the authority to slap a 45% tariff on things? If I'm not mistaken, he may be able to change tariffs within a small range, but I think it requires congressional approval to make significant changes.

Cluck U wrote:

JohnStOnge wrote:The United States has uses tariff's to some extent. Much less so in recent history but some. The latest number I could quickly find on the total amount of US tariffs was for 2010. It was about $25 billion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariffs_i ... ite_note-1). Scroll down some. Wikipedia, but it's all I can find.

Donald Trump threw out the idea of a 45% tariff on all Chinese goods sold in the United States. For 2015 45% of the value of Chinese goods sold in the United States is about $217 billion dollars.

And, since you're big on finances, what impact do you think that would have on American consumers?

It's more than that anyway. Trump demagogues and gins up resentment while suggesting solutions that are absurd. Like talking about Chinese currency devaluation when they haven't been doing that in recent years. And saying he moved his operation to a country where people make $0.30 per hour because the Chinese are devaluing their currency. Do you REALLY buy that shit? Really?

BTW when I googled information on tariff's I came across these:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall ... 9bc58d27d5

Here's the headline:



Read if you wish. Another.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... -u-s-jobs/



Look, I know there is a lot of uncertainty associated with economic modeling. But the point is that I am by no means the only one saying this. And I'm not saying to go on the basis of models. I'm saying to just use your head. Trump is pretty obviously completely nuts.

You refuse to believe the overwhelming number of scientists, and their writings, that support the idea of Global Warming. Yet you believe in a bunch of economists that predict the world's economy will crash because of a few tariffs?



Hey, I could make your head spin with details about trade and tariffs, and some inside stories about how things are done out of sight behind the curtain, but you wouldn't listen anyway.

So we'll try a different look.

When you look at the current economy, we have plenty of good paying jobs and no one is in debt, right? Full employment...full speed ahead.

No?

Wonder why?

Tell you what...since you believe so much in the intelligence of the people who wrote the stuff in your links, can you find me ONE article that has a proven solution to improving our economy?

Just one.

I'll wait.

And to provide some past history of an accurate record of forecasting, to lend credence to their current predictions, I'll let you go back several decades so you can dig up something from those sources, concrete ideas, that actually provided answers to getting Americans back to work. After all, the geniuses you cite, with all of the foresight, should have been able to solve our economic woes over the decades, and if we had listened to their forecasts, we'd have full employment and no poverty, right?

Ball is in your court, JSO. Should be an easy assignment. Let me know what you find.

Economists are pretty smart Cluck. They've predicted 18 of the last 12 recessions.

HI54UNI wrote:

Cluck U wrote:
You refuse to believe the overwhelming number of scientists, and their writings, that support the idea of Global Warming. Yet you believe in a bunch of economists that predict the world's economy will crash because of a few tariffs?



Hey, I could make your head spin with details about trade and tariffs, and some inside stories about how things are done out of sight behind the curtain, but you wouldn't listen anyway.

So we'll try a different look.

When you look at the current economy, we have plenty of good paying jobs and no one is in debt, right? Full employment...full speed ahead.

No?

Wonder why?

Tell you what...since you believe so much in the intelligence of the people who wrote the stuff in your links, can you find me ONE article that has a proven solution to improving our economy?

Just one.

I'll wait.

And to provide some past history of an accurate record of forecasting, to lend credence to their current predictions, I'll let you go back several decades so you can dig up something from those sources, concrete ideas, that actually provided answers to getting Americans back to work. After all, the geniuses you cite, with all of the foresight, should have been able to solve our economic woes over the decades, and if we had listened to their forecasts, we'd have full employment and no poverty, right?

Ball is in your court, JSO. Should be an easy assignment. Let me know what you find.

Economists are pretty smart Cluck. They've predicted 18 of the last 12 recessions.

They're among the few that make astrologers look smart..