Brexit Thread

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Re: Brexit Thread

Postby CID1990 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:02 pm

This is what happens when political parties allow the inmates to run the asylum.

It is beginning to happen on the left, as well.
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Re: Brexit Thread

Postby Ivytalk » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:17 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:
SDHornet wrote:Not really, more like the politicians not following through on what the voters want...kind of like when we heard conks bitch and moan about Obamacare and then have no plan or any idea (or balls) to repeal it.


I think with Brexit we have a situation in which people who supported it and argued for voting for it were not honest with people about what it would entail. Or maybe they didn't think enough about what it would entail either. Either way I think the British people who voted for it generally did not understand what it would mean.

Just like coon-asses who voted for Hillary didn’t know what it would mean.
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Re: Brexit Thread

Postby ∞∞∞ » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:29 pm

Skjellyfetti wrote:
Brexit and Trumpism Have Failed Because Conservative Populism Is a Lie...

Conservatism doesn't work because (and this is a crazy concept) the human species is progressive.

It's just an annoying philosophy that delays the inevitable.

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Re: Brexit Thread

Postby Ivytalk » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:32 pm

∞∞∞ wrote:
Skjellyfetti wrote:

Conservatism doesn't work because (and this is a crazy concept) the human species is progressive.

It's just an annoying philosophy that delays the inevitable.

Like the triumph of ISIS? That inevitable?
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Re: Brexit Thread

Postby CID1990 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:37 pm

∞∞∞ wrote:
Skjellyfetti wrote:

Conservatism doesn't work because (and this is a crazy concept) the human species is progressive.

It's just an annoying philosophy that delays the inevitable.


That's a ridiculous statement.

It is a lack of conservatism that is driving us into bankruptcy. Within your lifetime and maybe mine, our government (almost certainly a "progressive" one) is going to adopt inflationary fiscal policies, the world is going to stop trading in dollars, and the US is going to suffer badly (probably deservedly so)- and it is going to be because of a LACK of conservatism.

I suggest that instead of contributing to investment plans (which are going to be "progressively" devalued) that you put your retirement eggs in something real.
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Re: Brexit Thread

Postby Winterborn » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:41 pm

∞∞∞ wrote:
Skjellyfetti wrote:

Conservatism doesn't work because (and this is a crazy concept) the human species is progressive.

It's just an annoying philosophy that delays the inevitable.


:shock: :? :ohno:

Rather than addressing this thought (as I am not sure it would do any good) I am going to walk down to Twin Peaks and enjoy a beer. :beer:

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Re: Brexit Thread

Postby ∞∞∞ » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:56 pm

CID1990 wrote:
∞∞∞ wrote:Conservatism doesn't work because (and this is a crazy concept) the human species is progressive.

It's just an annoying philosophy that delays the inevitable.


That's a ridiculous statement.

It is a lack of conservatism that is driving us into bankruptcy. Within your lifetime and maybe mine, our government (almost certainly a "progressive" one) is going to adopt inflationary fiscal policies, the world is going to stop trading in dollars, and the US is going to suffer badly (probably deservedly so)- and it is going to be because of a LACK of conservatism.

I suggest that instead of contributing to investment plans (which are going to be "progressively" devalued) that you put your retirement eggs in something real.

Aside from the fact that money is an imagined reality and societies shift from or remold these realities when they fail us, I'm talking about the failure of conservatism from its literal definition.

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Re: Brexit Thread

Postby CID1990 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:12 pm

∞∞∞ wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
That's a ridiculous statement.

It is a lack of conservatism that is driving us into bankruptcy. Within your lifetime and maybe mine, our government (almost certainly a "progressive" one) is going to adopt inflationary fiscal policies, the world is going to stop trading in dollars, and the US is going to suffer badly (probably deservedly so)- and it is going to be because of a LACK of conservatism.

I suggest that instead of contributing to investment plans (which are going to be "progressively" devalued) that you put your retirement eggs in something real.

Aside from the fact that money is an imagined reality and societies shift from or remold these realities when they fail us, I'm talking about the failure of conservatism from its literal definition.


I see

You are incorrect, but then you just have a different reality, I guess

There might even be a quantum explanation for it

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/6130 ... e-reality/
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Re: Brexit Thread

Postby SDHornet » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:02 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:
SDHornet wrote:Not really, more like the politicians not following through on what the voters want...kind of like when we heard conks bitch and moan about Obamacare and then have no plan or any idea (or balls) to repeal it.


I think with Brexit we have a situation in which people who supported it and argued for voting for it were not honest with people about what it would entail. Or maybe they didn't think enough about what it would entail either. Either way I think the British people who voted for it generally did not understand what it would mean.

I think voting on whether or not to remain in the EU was pretty clear, how could it not be? Now understanding all the nuances and nitty gritty things that would be impacted probably wasn't fully known and probably still isn't, but even it was I doubt that the vote at that time would have been impacted by it.

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Re: Brexit Thread

Postby SDHornet » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:02 pm

CID1990 wrote:
∞∞∞ wrote:Aside from the fact that money is an imagined reality and societies shift from or remold these realities when they fail us, I'm talking about the failure of conservatism from its literal definition.


I see

You are incorrect, but then you just have a different reality, I guess

There might even be a quantum explanation for it

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/6130 ... e-reality/

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Brexit Thread

Postby Skjellyfetti » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:07 am

"The unmasking thing was all created by Devin Nunes"
- Richard Burr, (R-NC)

Cid1990 wrote:It is going to be a sad day for a lot of people when all that comes of all of this is Flynn getting whacked.

Mueller is going to take a beating on the left before this business is over

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Re: Brexit Thread

Postby Ibanez » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:52 am

∞∞∞ wrote:
Skjellyfetti wrote:

Conservatism doesn't work because (and this is a crazy concept) the human species is progressive.

It's just an annoying philosophy that delays the inevitable.

Must. Resist. The.Urge....


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Re: Brexit Thread

Postby JohnStOnge » Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:46 pm

Ivytalk wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
I think with Brexit we have a situation in which people who supported it and argued for voting for it were not honest with people about what it would entail. Or maybe they didn't think enough about what it would entail either. Either way I think the British people who voted for it generally did not understand what it would mean.

Just like coon-asses who voted for Hillary didn’t know what it would mean.


It would've mean pretty much status quo continuation of things as they were going without much disruption. If Hillary had gotten elected the economy would be pretty much in the same place as it is now. Our international relationships would be better. We as a nation would be more respected than we are now. We would've had two Center-Left Supreme Court Justices added to the Supreme Court instead of two Solid-Right Justices. And the Republican Party would not be as damaged as it is now in terms of credibility. The Federal budget deficit would probably be smaller. We would have someone qualified for the job in the President's position. And the person in the President's position would not be mentally ill.

The country would be better off right now if Hillary Clinton had been elected President. I prefer two Solid-Right Justices over two Center-Left ones but just about everything else would be as good or better as it is now if that were the case.
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Re: Brexit Thread

Postby BDKJMU » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:11 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:
Ivytalk wrote:Just like coon-asses who voted for Hillary didn’t know what it would mean.


It would've mean pretty much status quo continuation of things as they were going without much disruption. If Hillary had gotten elected the economy would be pretty much in the same place as it is now. Our international relationships would be better. We as a nation would be more respected than we are now. We would've had two Center-Left Supreme Court Justices added to the Supreme Court instead of two Solid-Right Justices. And the Republican Party would not be as damaged as it is now in terms of credibility. The Federal budget deficit would probably be smaller. We would have someone qualified for the job in the President's position. And the person in the President's position would not be mentally ill.

The country would be better off right now if Hillary Clinton had been elected President. I prefer two Solid-Right Justices over two Center-Left ones but just about everything else would be as good or better as it is now if that were the case.

Baloney. With Cliton would have had:
1. 2 liberal SCOTUS judges instead of 2 conservative ones.
2. Numerous more liberal Circuit judges vs the conservative ones that Trump has nominated and have been confirmed or will be.
3. No tax cuts.
4. Softer on Illegal Immigration
5. Still have the Obamacare mandate.
6. No renegotiation of NAFTA (United States–Mexico–Canada Agreement).
7. Nothing being done about China (massive trade deficit with them, Chinese tarriffs on US goods, China manipulating their currency, China committ massive state sponsored economic espionage against the US). Clinton would have been doing the same as Bush and Obama- that is not a damn thing.
8. We’d still have the terrible Iran deal.
9. Wouldn’t have pulled out of the Paris Climate deal.
10. Wouldn’t have gotten deadbeat NATO countries to pledge to pay more.
11. Wouldn’t be pulling out of Syria
12. Wouldn’t have opened a dialogue with North Korea

Plus I don’t believe the stock market would be as high, or unemployment as low, if Clinton had won, but can’t prove that.
All of the above is just off the top of my head. There’s more..
Last edited by BDKJMU on Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: RE: Re: Brexit Thread

Postby UNI88 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:16 pm

∞∞∞ wrote:
Skjellyfetti wrote:

Progressivism/Liberalism/Socialism doesn't work because (and this is a crazy concept) the human species is ambitious/greedy.

It's just an annoying philosophy that delays the inevitable.


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Re: RE: Re: Brexit Thread

Postby Ivytalk » Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:29 am

UNI88 wrote:
∞∞∞ wrote:Progressivism/Liberalism/Socialism doesn't work because (and this is a crazy concept) the human species is ambitious/greedy.

It's just an annoying philosophy that delays the inevitable.


FYP

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Well done! :clap:
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Re: Brexit Thread

Postby CID1990 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:59 am

BDKJMU wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
It would've mean pretty much status quo continuation of things as they were going without much disruption. If Hillary had gotten elected the economy would be pretty much in the same place as it is now. Our international relationships would be better. We as a nation would be more respected than we are now. We would've had two Center-Left Supreme Court Justices added to the Supreme Court instead of two Solid-Right Justices. And the Republican Party would not be as damaged as it is now in terms of credibility. The Federal budget deficit would probably be smaller. We would have someone qualified for the job in the President's position. And the person in the President's position would not be mentally ill.

The country would be better off right now if Hillary Clinton had been elected President. I prefer two Solid-Right Justices over two Center-Left ones but just about everything else would be as good or better as it is now if that were the case.

Baloney. With Cliton would have had:
1. 2 liberal SCOTUS judges instead of 2 conservative ones.
2. Numerous more liberal Circuit judges vs the conservative ones that Trump has nominated and have been confirmed or will be.
3. No tax cuts.
4. Softer on Illegal Immigration
5. Still have the Obamacare mandate.
6. No renegotiation of NAFTA (United States–Mexico–Canada Agreement).
7. Nothing being done about China (massive trade deficit with them, Chinese tarriffs on US goods, China manipulating their currency, China committ massive state sponsored economic espionage against the US). Clinton would have been doing the same as Bush and Obama- that is not a damn thing.
8. We’d still have the terrible Iran deal.
9. Wouldn’t have pulled out of the Paris Climate deal.
10. Wouldn’t have gotten deadbeat NATO countries to pledge to pay more.
11. Wouldn’t be pulling out of Syria
12. Wouldn’t have opened a dialogue with North Korea

Plus I don’t believe the stock market would be as high, or unemployment as low, if Clinton had won, but can’t prove that.
All of the above is just off the top of my head. There’s more..


With Clinton as President nobody would know who Paul Manafort was


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Re: Brexit Thread

Postby JohnStOnge » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:22 am

BDKJMU wrote:Baloney. With Cliton would have had:
1. 2 liberal SCOTUS judges instead of 2 conservative ones.

Yes.
2.
Numerous more liberal Circuit judges vs the conservative ones that Trump has nominated and have been confirmed or will be.


Yes.

3. No tax cuts.


Yes. But we also would not have larger deficits because a political Party misled people by arguing in the face of all structured analyses that the tax cuts would not result in a decline in the rate of revenue increase then followed up by increasing spending.

4. Softer on Illegal Immigration


Smarter on illegal immigration.

5. Still have the Obamacare mandate.


Yes. We would not have a situation whereby the requirements for insuring people are still there but the inventive for low risk people to stay in the pool is gone.

6. No renegotiation of NAFTA (United States–Mexico–Canada Agreement).


How that turns out remains to be seen, but the narrative that NAFTA was bad for us was a false one.

7. Nothing being done about China (massive trade deficit with them, Chinese tarriffs on US goods, China manipulating their currency, China committ massive state sponsored economic espionage against the US). Clinton would have been doing the same as Bush and Obama- that is not a damn thing.


Trade with China has been good for the typical person in the United States. Way more positive than negative. What's going on now is not good.

8. We’d still have the terrible Iran deal.


I did not agree with making the Iran deal, but it was made. What Trump did hurt our credibility as a nation. The other party was living up to its end of the deal and we did not live up to ours.

9. Wouldn’t have pulled out of the Paris Climate deal.


See comments on 8.

10. Wouldn’t have gotten deadbeat NATO countries to pledge to pay more.


We'll see how that turns out but the mentality holding that NATO is a losing proposition for us; as though we were being "taken," is false. We have benefitted greatly. We WANT to have troops stationed all over the place like that. We're not doing it because we want to be nice.

11. Wouldn’t be pulling out of Syria


Another move that hurts our credibility and betrays people who trusted us.

12. Wouldn’t have opened a dialogue with North Korea


Total show that means nothing. Trump is being played.

Plus I don’t believe the stock market would be as high, or unemployment as low, if Clinton had won, but can’t prove that.


If I had to bet I'd bet the stock market is a little higher than it would be but not by much. I think the unemployment rate would be about the same. What I do know with certainty is that the stock market had been generally rising and the unemployment rate generally declining for about 7 years before Trump got elected so there was no change in the basic direction of either of those things.

One of these days I need to educate myself on the details of his "regulatory reform." I think there's a good chance of identifying some really bad decisions on that front. I don't think that because I didn't think before that we needed some regulatory reform. I think it because Trump and the people around him are reckless and regulation is necessary. I would be very comfortable betting that they did some foolish things in terms of regulatory elimination.

All of the above is just off the top of my head. There’s more..[/quote]
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Re: Brexit Thread

Postby CID1990 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:24 am

I’m not quoting all that garbage

You’re wrong on NATO.

It is antiquated. It is a money suck. Our “allies” take advantage of us.

We have zero reason to be in Europe. Russia has an economy the size of Italy, and a conventional war with them would be won by Germany, France, and Poland in a matter of months.

They have more nukes than us. That’s their only advantage. Should we have the bulk of our defenses in Europe where we cannot support them, or at home where they belong... actually defending the US?


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Re: Brexit Thread

Postby SDHornet » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:28 pm

Skjellyfetti wrote:

Reminds me of you in the Trump Russian collusion thread following all the narrative implosions over the last 2 years. :lol:

Oh, and I'm the guy in the silver car that is about to run your dumb ass over. 8-)

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Re: Brexit Thread

Postby SDHornet » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:31 pm

CID1990 wrote:I’m not quoting all that garbage

This.

Hey JSO ready for a nice little mind ****? Well, you claim NAFTA wasn't that bad for us, guess what, NAFTA played a large role in getting Trump elected.


Good luck spinning your way out of that one. You're welcome. :lol: 8-)

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Re: Brexit Thread

Postby Pwns » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:47 pm

Come on, JSO. If any R other than Trump were in office, there's ZERO chance you would care about the "credibility" of the country on issues like the Paris pinky promise, Iran deal, and the NATO thing.

When you basically can't name a thing a president has done that you like, you're in derangement syndrome territory.
We get the government we deserve. :nod:

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Re: Brexit Thread

Postby Ivytalk » Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:17 am

Pwns wrote:Come on, JSO. If any R other than Trump were in office, there's ZERO chance you would care about the "credibility" of the country on issues like the Paris pinky promise, Iran deal, and the NATO thing.

When you basically can't name a thing a president has done that you like, you're in derangement syndrome territory.

I think he grudgingly agrees with Trump’s judicial picks. But that doesn’t diminish his TDS street cred, because he thinks federal judges are tyrants no matter who appointed them.
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Re: Brexit Thread

Postby ∞∞∞ » Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:07 am

Opinion:
Brexit Britain has reached populism’s inevitable terminus. The government is collapsing as Conservative ministers vote against their own administration with impunity. The equally chaotic opposition cannot oppose. No one can say whether my country will crash out of the European Union provoking an economic and social crisis. Honest commentators don’t make predictions anymore, but stare at the wreckage with slack-jawed disbelief...

...The British crisis is deeper than the United States’ because at its heart lies a failure of truth-telling. We have no equivalent of the Democrat-controlled House of Representatives; no power center or coherent voice that can expose the populist politicians whose combination of cynicism and magical thinking led us to this pass...

...Like populist movements across the West, the Leave campaign refused to make a tough call. Instead, it promised that wrenching change could be achieved without pain. Unlike the nationalists of the 20th century, who fetishized sacrifice, their successors are the authentic representatives of a baby-boomer generation that wants to have it all. Boris Johnson, an upper-class politician who could make President Trump seem a model of integrity, and his fellow supporters of Brexit promised that the task of securing a fresh trade deal with the E.U. would be “one of the easiest in human history.” As it has turned out, the tension of reconciling the populist propaganda of the referendum campaign with protecting the economy has caused a nervous breakdown in politics, and the real negotiations haven’t even begun yet. Meanwhile, British exceptionalists, like their American counterparts, insisted that other countries would bow before us. We were repeatedly assured that the E.U. needed us more than we needed them, a brag that grows more absurd by the day...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... c2a091e713

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Re: Brexit Thread

Postby JohnStOnge » Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:06 pm

Pwns wrote:Come on, JSO. If any R other than Trump were in office, there's ZERO chance you would care about the "credibility" of the country on issues like the Paris pinky promise, Iran deal, and the NATO thing.

When you basically can't name a thing a president has done that you like, you're in derangement syndrome territory.


I think you need to look at the response to which you're referring again. And yes I would care about our country honoring its word. The time to debate what that word is is before it is given. You don't give your word then go back on it.
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