Brexit Thread

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Re: Brexit Thread

Post by CID1990 »

The only way snap election work (maybe) for Labour and Lib Dems is if Corbyn declares he won’t seek the PM seat.

Brexit is a fait accompli


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Re: Brexit Thread

Post by GannonFan »

CID1990 wrote:The only way snap election work (maybe) for Labour and Lib Dems is if Corbyn declares he won’t seek the PM seat.

Brexit is a fait accompli


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Indeed, Corbyn absolutely kills the Labour Party right now. And I think he's hurt the Remain side as well during his time.
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Re: Brexit Thread

Post by Skjellyfetti »

GannonFan wrote:
Skjellyfetti wrote:It's not just Johnson vs Corbyn, though.

The vote yesterday required was orquestrated by Conservative party MPs - and had a sizable chunk of Conservative support. Labor and Corbyn couldn't have gotten the vote.
I understand that, but that's more around the no-deal Brexit option. That's where Corbyn found allies to latch on to. But Corbyn doesn't want an election that could end up giving Johnson even more power where he could really then go ahead with the no-deal plan. Corbyn's idea is to draw this out as long as possible (I think the original vote was in 2016) until people just give up on it. He doesn't want to bring anything to a head, just keep talking about it ad infinitum.
I don't see how it was Corbyn that dragged it out. They could have decided on a Brexit deal without Labor.

Theresa May negotiated a deal during the time you mention. It was rejected by the Conservative Party - 118 MPs from her party voted against it. If they could have agreed on a plan - it would be done now.

It's a case of them being saddled with no good option. BREXIT!!! Ok, now what? Pretty fucking difficult.
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Cid1990 wrote:It is going to be a sad day for a lot of people when all that comes of all of this is Flynn getting whacked.

Mueller is going to take a beating on the left before this business is over

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Re: Brexit Thread

Post by GannonFan »

Skjellyfetti wrote:
GannonFan wrote:
I understand that, but that's more around the no-deal Brexit option. That's where Corbyn found allies to latch on to. But Corbyn doesn't want an election that could end up giving Johnson even more power where he could really then go ahead with the no-deal plan. Corbyn's idea is to draw this out as long as possible (I think the original vote was in 2016) until people just give up on it. He doesn't want to bring anything to a head, just keep talking about it ad infinitum.
I don't see how it was Corbyn that dragged it out. They could have decided on a Brexit deal without Labor.

Theresa May negotiated a deal during the time you mention. It was rejected by the Conservative Party - 118 MPs from her party voted against it. If they could have agreed on a plan - it would be done now.

It's a case of them being saddled with no good option. BREXIT!!! Ok, now what? Pretty fucking difficult.
Agreed, but he's the poster child of the Remain group, even though I think he's technically pro-Brexit as well (well, under the "right" agreement, which to him is impossible to obtain - he's like the John Kerry of Brexit - he was against it before being for it, but is now against it again, or so he thinks). Parliament is just afraid to pull the trigger, and now I think they're scared of going to a general election because the general public is probably more reflective of the Johnson "the hell with it, let's just do it" position.
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Re: Brexit Thread

Post by Skjellyfetti »

GannonFan wrote:
Skjellyfetti wrote:
I don't see how it was Corbyn that dragged it out. They could have decided on a Brexit deal without Labor.

Theresa May negotiated a deal during the time you mention. It was rejected by the Conservative Party - 118 MPs from her party voted against it. If they could have agreed on a plan - it would be done now.

It's a case of them being saddled with no good option. BREXIT!!! Ok, now what? Pretty fucking difficult.
Agreed, but he's the poster child of the Remain group, even though I think he's technically pro-Brexit as well (well, under the "right" agreement, which to him is impossible to obtain - he's like the John Kerry of Brexit - he was against it before being for it, but is now against it again, or so he thinks). Parliament is just afraid to pull the trigger, and now I think they're scared of going to a general election because the general public is probably more reflective of the Johnson "the hell with it, let's just do it" position.

Well, I think almost anyone would be for it with the right agreement. That's how the Brexiteers won the vote... promising everyone exactly what they wanted. The problem is that it's pretty damned difficult to deliver that when time comes.
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Cid1990 wrote:It is going to be a sad day for a lot of people when all that comes of all of this is Flynn getting whacked.

Mueller is going to take a beating on the left before this business is over

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Re: Brexit Thread

Post by Skjellyfetti »

Oof.

Boris Johnson fails in pushing through snap election after Brexit delay bill passes
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/04/boris-j ... asses.html
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Cid1990 wrote:It is going to be a sad day for a lot of people when all that comes of all of this is Flynn getting whacked.

Mueller is going to take a beating on the left before this business is over

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Re: Brexit Thread

Post by GannonFan »

Skjellyfetti wrote:Oof.

Boris Johnson fails in pushing through snap election after Brexit delay bill passes
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/04/boris-j ... asses.html
At some point they're going to have to face the electorate again - can't avoid an election forever. And it ain't going to be pretty after the past 3 years of failing to finish the Brexit.
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Re: Brexit Thread

Post by Ivytalk »

mainejeff2 wrote:How far the Caucasians have fallen..... :ohno: :ohno: :ohno:

Image

Image
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Re: Brexit Thread

Post by Aho Old Guy »

Image

So, Boris leaves London (on the run) to spread a little payola to the Scots, and his photo-op takes out a police officer ... what Skjellyfetti said.
Skjellyfetti wrote:Boris suspends Parliament for the next 5 weeks. What a shitshow.
Ibanez wrote:Awesome. I'll be in the UK in about 5 weeks (for most of October).

I'll be the CS.COM Man on the Street and report.
This. And, this! Send lotsa pics of the shitshow, and ask the little woman for a pass (for 'research' and 'reporting' purposes -- nodnodwinkwink) ...

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Re: Brexit Thread

Post by Aho Old Guy »

:dunce:
'Tasteless': Boris Johnson's sister Rachel criticises his 'reprehensible' language in Commons

Even his sister thinks he is a clown ...
Image
Ms Johnson said: "A lot of this language was initiated in the tabloids, because we had [headlines] like 'crush the saboteurs', we had the judiciary and remain MPs being 'enemies of the people', words like collaborationist, betrayal.

"My brother is using words like 'surrender' and 'capitulation' as if the people standing in the way of the blessed will of the people, as defined by the 17.4 million votes in 2016, should be hung, drawn, quartered, tarred, and feathered.

"I think that is highly reprehensible.

"I hope today in the Commons there will be some sort of deal on all sides that this sort of thing is utterly dialled down.

"It serves no purpose."
She's kinda hot ... :D
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Re: Brexit Thread

Post by GannonFan »

I dunno, I think the Brits are getting soft. They're triggered by the word "surrender" like it's going to cause violence to say the word. Censorship is real (and yes, Boris is pretty much a clown, but he is a politician so the chances of him being a clown were highly probable).
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Re: Brexit Thread

Post by CID1990 »

I learned something new today -

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/impact-u ... 06935.html

Britain never had a Supreme Court until EU rules forced them to convert the old law lords portion of the House of Lords into a de facto "Supreme Court". Before that, questions of constitutionality were decided within Parliament.

Aside from all of the usual issues we have seen with the loss of sovereignty as a result of membership in the EU, countries like the UK also saw their traditional governmental structures altered, and this is one of the consequences of that.
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Re: Brexit Thread

Post by Aho Old Guy »

After 700+ years, the **UK traditional governmental structures** likely need a bit of updating ...
;-)
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Re: Brexit Thread

Post by GannonFan »

Aho Old Guy wrote:After 700+ years, the **UK traditional governmental structures** likely need a bit of updating ...
;-)
No doubt, but I'm sure this was/is just one microcosm of the reason why so many Brits wanted to leave the EU - they didn't like Brussels telling them how they had to setup and run their government. I don't remember us reacting very well to the idea that US service personnel could be tried in foreign courts rather than having those cases tried back here in the US.
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Re: Brexit Thread

Post by ∞∞∞ »

CID1990 wrote:Britain never had a Supreme Court until EU rules forced them to convert the old law lords portion of the House of Lords into a de facto "Supreme Court". Before that, questions of constitutionality were decided within Parliament.
Can you cite where EU rules forced the UK to do this? The article you linked has nothing to do with that, and I've searched everywhere (including articles from 2009) and can't find a single mention of it.

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Re: Brexit Thread

Post by Ivytalk »

∞∞∞ wrote:
CID1990 wrote:Britain never had a Supreme Court until EU rules forced them to convert the old law lords portion of the House of Lords into a de facto "Supreme Court". Before that, questions of constitutionality were decided within Parliament.
Can you cite where EU rules forced the UK to do this? The article you linked has nothing to do with that, and I've searched everywhere (including articles from 2009) and can't find a single mention of it.
I understood that the creation of the UK Supreme Court was motivated independently by separation of powers concerns and not required by EU rules. The EU constitutional system gives the EU Court of Justice supremacy in matters of European law, but not the domestic law of the Member States.
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Re: Brexit Thread

Post by GannonFan »

Ivytalk wrote:
∞∞∞ wrote: Can you cite where EU rules forced the UK to do this? The article you linked has nothing to do with that, and I've searched everywhere (including articles from 2009) and can't find a single mention of it.
I understood that the creation of the UK Supreme Court was motivated independently by separation of powers concerns and not required by EU rules. The EU constitutional system gives the EU Court of Justice supremacy in matters of European law, but not the domestic law of the Member States.
I understood it to be that they (the UK) was worried they weren't in compliance with Article 6 of the European Convention on Human Right (fair trial).

Like I said, no doubt the UK needed to update things - you go 900 years and every now and then you need a course correction.
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Re: Brexit Thread

Post by CID1990 »

∞∞∞ wrote:
CID1990 wrote:Britain never had a Supreme Court until EU rules forced them to convert the old law lords portion of the House of Lords into a de facto "Supreme Court". Before that, questions of constitutionality were decided within Parliament.
Can you cite where EU rules forced the UK to do this? The article you linked has nothing to do with that, and I've searched everywhere (including articles from 2009) and can't find a single mention of it.
You found no mention of it because you don’t read very carefully

(which explains a lot)

“Given that this has all happened due to the Brexit vote, the greatest irony here is that Britain only has a Supreme Court because European Union rules essentially required it to establish one.”


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Re: Brexit Thread

Post by ∞∞∞ »

CID1990 wrote:
∞∞∞ wrote: Can you cite where EU rules forced the UK to do this? The article you linked has nothing to do with that, and I've searched everywhere (including articles from 2009) and can't find a single mention of it.
You found no mention of it because you don’t read very carefully

(which explains a lot)

“Given that this has all happened due to the Brexit vote, the greatest irony here is that Britain only has a Supreme Court because European Union rules essentially required it to establish one.”
I see it after the break now.

Still, this is an opinion piece. Online, there's little relating the creation of the Supreme Court to a requirement by the European Union, but I did find this from the BBC from 2009:
How does the court relate to Europe?

The court has a role in interpreting law passed in the name of the European Union and, separately, ensuring that the British courts take into account rulings from the European Court of Human Rights. Some people whose cases are rejected by the Supreme Court will be able to ask the European Court to intervene where there needs to be more clarity on specific areas of human rights.
Still, that just explains how the court works in reviewing EU laws. Perhaps it was indirectly created to modernize the court so it can better work within the EU system, but doesn't seem like it was a direct circumstance of European Union rules. Unless anyone can find the rule...

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Re: Brexit Thread

Post by CID1990 »

∞∞∞ wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
You found no mention of it because you don’t read very carefully

(which explains a lot)

“Given that this has all happened due to the Brexit vote, the greatest irony here is that Britain only has a Supreme Court because European Union rules essentially required it to establish one.”
I see it after the break now.

Still, this is an opinion piece. Online, there's little relating the creation of the Supreme Court to a requirement by the European Union, but I did find this from the BBC from 2009:
How does the court relate to Europe?

The court has a role in interpreting law passed in the name of the European Union and, separately, ensuring that the British courts take into account rulings from the European Court of Human Rights. Some people whose cases are rejected by the Supreme Court will be able to ask the European Court to intervene where there needs to be more clarity on specific areas of human rights.
Still, that just explains how the court works in reviewing EU laws. Perhaps it was indirectly created to modernize the court so it can better work within the EU system, but doesn't seem like it was a direct circumstance of European Union rules. Unless anyone can find the rule...
Back to the original point which is loss of sovereignty

Its so unfortunate that people in democracies get to vote, I guess


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Re: Brexit Thread

Post by Ibanez »

Been in the UK for a week now. Took lil CCU to a park this morning and was chatting with the locals. As they explained it - the general consensus is to do something. Leave or stay. Do something and say something. There isn’t a lot of love for Boris over here.


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Re: Brexit Thread

Post by kalm »

Ibanez wrote:Been in the UK for a week now. Took lil CCU to a park this morning and was chatting with the locals. As they explained it - the general consensus is to do something. Leave or stay. Do something and say something. There isn’t a lot of love for Boris over here.


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Re: Brexit Thread

Post by Ibanez »

kalm wrote:
Ibanez wrote:Been in the UK for a week now. Took lil CCU to a park this morning and was chatting with the locals. As they explained it - the general consensus is to do something. Leave or stay. Do something and say something. There isn’t a lot of love for Boris over here.


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Say “Ello” to Denis for me. ;)

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You’re welcome. I’ve been in the borders for about 4 days. - visiting the castles of my ancestors.


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Re: Brexit Thread

Post by bluehenbillk »

So they reach a deal last night that will need to go back to both the EU & UK Parliaments to be approved. Early prognosticators say EU approves, UK doesn't, EU tells them to pound sand & Johnson gets his hard exit wish.
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Re: Brexit Thread

Post by Ivytalk »

bluehenbillk wrote:So they reach a deal last night that will need to go back to both the EU & UK Parliaments to be approved. Early prognosticators say EU approves, UK doesn't, EU tells them to pound sand & Johnson gets his hard exit wish.
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