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What if the Affordable Care Act actually ends up working...?
What if the cost reduction projects made by independent studies were right..?
What if a repeal would actually be BAD for America..?

The nightmare continues

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik ... story.html

This is what Obamacare fan boys are reduced to? "Health care spending is ballooning quite as fast as we thought it would!"

Meanwhile, premiums aren't going down. What happened to the $2500 cost reduction for families?

And this doesn't really tell the whole story. Are people foregoing primary care and other elective visits and treatments because their deductibles are going up?

Our deductible is now 10k

Monthly premium is now over 700, up over 200 a month in the last year and a half, and will go up massively again. The insurance plan that goes with it? Well they don't layout a single thing until we've hit 10k out of pocket. No co-pay on visits. We pay 100% of everything

Essentially we pay about 9 grand per year just to have insurance, to avoid whatever that goes with not having it, so that our insurance company will let us pay our own medical costs.

Basically we have to pay, minimum, 19k per year before our insurance will actually insure us. That 19k is barely, and I mean barely, a 5 digit number from my take home per year. Doesn't leave much room for other bills, does it

Thanks Obama.

clenz wrote:Our deductible is now 10k

Monthly premium is now over 700, up over 200 a month in the last year and a half, and will go up massively again. The insurance plan that goes with it? Well they don't layout a single thing until we've hit 10k out of pocket. No co-pay on visits. We pay 100% of everything

Essentially we pay about 9 grand per year just to have insurance, to avoid whatever that goes with not having it, so that our insurance company will let us pay our own medical costs.

Basically we have to pay, minimum, 19k per year before our insurance will actually insure us. That 19k is barely, and I mean barely, a 5 digit number from my take home per year. Doesn't leave much room for other bills, does it

Thanks Obama.

This is what healthcare costs, checked out incomes for doctors, nurses, and administrators much.. and we are fat, out of shape, eat bullshit, smoke, and drink as if there ain't no tomorrow, well maybe we are right, but we flock to the E-room with our kiddie-pots and every snivvel, get our guts stapled, need our tickers repaired, livers pampered, kidneys replaced, and cancer tortured, and they just go..

CHA-CHING!!

I really think investing in a tough national push for better foods and a healthier lifestyle will pay dividends long-term, even possibly paying people (or giving tax cuts) to live better. Companies which have implemented such measures cut or significantly curbed their healthcare costs.

Wedgie is correct; we can only blame the ADA so much before looking at ourselves as a society.

Wedgebuster wrote:

clenz wrote:Our deductible is now 10k

Monthly premium is now over 700, up over 200 a month in the last year and a half, and will go up massively again. The insurance plan that goes with it? Well they don't layout a single thing until we've hit 10k out of pocket. No co-pay on visits. We pay 100% of everything

Essentially we pay about 9 grand per year just to have insurance, to avoid whatever that goes with not having it, so that our insurance company will let us pay our own medical costs.

Basically we have to pay, minimum, 19k per year before our insurance will actually insure us. That 19k is barely, and I mean barely, a 5 digit number from my take home per year. Doesn't leave much room for other bills, does it

Thanks Obama.

This is what healthcare costs, checked out incomes for doctors, nurses, and administrators much.. and we are fat, out of shape, eat bullshit, smoke, and drink as if there ain't no tomorrow, well maybe we are right, but we flock to the E-room with our kiddie-pots and every snivvel, get our guts stapled, need our tickers repaired, livers pampered, kidneys replaced, and cancer tortured, and they just go..

CHA-CHING!!

But you forgot incomes for insurance company executives.

...and their fancy pants brokers and agents....

∞∞∞ wrote:I really think investing in a tough national push for better foods and a healthier lifestyle will pay dividends long-term, even possibly paying people (or giving tax cuts) to live better. Companies which have implemented such measures cut or significantly curbed their healthcare costs.

Wedgie is correct; we can only blame the ADA so much before looking at ourselves as a society.

We don't have high health care costs because of the burden of obesity. We have high health care costs because everything is so focking expensive because of how the market of health care is structured. We've got a system with no competition and no real incentives to keep costs low. People get charged outrageous amounts of money for procedures and drugs that should be cheaper than they are. And we have a shortage of doctors. Any profession where you can turn away clients or customers as doctors do with patients with certain payers you know you need more providers to bring costs down.

Of course the POS "Affordable" Care Act does nothing to address any of that, it just brings in people with pre-existing conditions and brings up out-of-pocket costs for everyone else. It's a crap "reform" law based on a bunch of lies and the illiterate public ate it up, as John Gruber states in a more politically-correct way.

Wedgebuster wrote:

clenz wrote:Our deductible is now 10k

Monthly premium is now over 700, up over 200 a month in the last year and a half, and will go up massively again. The insurance plan that goes with it? Well they don't layout a single thing until we've hit 10k out of pocket. No co-pay on visits. We pay 100% of everything

Essentially we pay about 9 grand per year just to have insurance, to avoid whatever that goes with not having it, so that our insurance company will let us pay our own medical costs.

Basically we have to pay, minimum, 19k per year before our insurance will actually insure us. That 19k is barely, and I mean barely, a 5 digit number from my take home per year. Doesn't leave much room for other bills, does it

Thanks Obama.

This is what healthcare costs, checked out incomes for doctors, nurses, and administrators much.. and we are fat, out of shape, eat bullshit, smoke, and drink as if there ain't no tomorrow, well maybe we are right, but we flock to the E-room with our kiddie-pots and every snivvel, get our guts stapled, need our tickers repaired, livers pampered, kidneys replaced, and cancer tortured, and they just go..

CHA-CHING!!

And check out what ambulance chasing malpractice attorneys make from what you pay in premiums & co pays that end up in their pockets via medical malpractice oremiums to pay out lawsuits & settlements..

Yeah, that is what helath care costs, for you and all the fooking deadbeats you have to pay for.

kalm wrote:

Wedgebuster wrote:
This is what healthcare costs, checked out incomes for doctors, nurses, and administrators much.. and we are fat, out of shape, eat bullshit, smoke, and drink as if there ain't no tomorrow, well maybe we are right, but we flock to the E-room with our kiddie-pots and every snivvel, get our guts stapled, need our tickers repaired, livers pampered, kidneys replaced, and cancer tortured, and they just go..

CHA-CHING!!

But you forgot incomes for insurance company executives.

...and their fancy pants brokers and agents....

And medical malpractice attorneys..

BDKJMU wrote:

kalm wrote:


But you forgot incomes for insurance company executives.

...and their fancy pants brokers and agents....

And medical malpractice attorneys..

Pwns wrote:

∞∞∞ wrote:I really think investing in a tough national push for better foods and a healthier lifestyle will pay dividends long-term, even possibly paying people (or giving tax cuts) to live better. Companies which have implemented such measures cut or significantly curbed their healthcare costs.

Wedgie is correct; we can only blame the ADA so much before looking at ourselves as a society.

We don't have high health care costs because of the burden of obesity. We have high health care costs because everything is so focking expensive because of how the market of health care is structured. We've got a system with no competition and no real incentives to keep costs low. People get charged outrageous amounts of money for procedures and drugs that should be cheaper than they are. And we have a shortage of doctors. Any profession where you can turn away clients or customers as doctors do with patients with certain payers you know you need more providers to bring costs down.

Of course the POS "Affordable" Care Act does nothing to address any of that, it just brings in people with pre-existing conditions and brings up out-of-pocket costs for everyone else. It's a crap "reform" law based on a bunch of lies and the illiterate public ate it up, as John Gruber states in a more politically-correct way.

Some good points here. Show me the free market example of how costs are controlled for a life or death service. I'm genuinely curious.

kalm wrote: Some good points here. Show me the free market example of how costs are controlled for a life or death service. I'm genuinely curious.

When you need emergency care, obviously you can't take the time to shop and compare. But most of the time it's not something where minutes count. When you need to have an appendix removed if you were to ask for an estimate from a hospital you would get laughed at. When I need to make a claim from car insurance I have to get multiple estimates, and if I didn't it would be very easy for people who do collision repair to charge outrageous amounts of money and the person making the claim won't care because they don't have any skin in the game. No reason why something comparable can't be done in health care, especially in larger cities where you have multiple providers.

And regarding drugs, yeah, that whole situation with Martin Shkreli and his sham pharmaceutical company and the AIDS drug is also an example of how drug makers get protected from any competition and are allowed to gouge people for whatever price they please.

Pwns wrote:

kalm wrote: Some good points here. Show me the free market example of how costs are controlled for a life or death service. I'm genuinely curious.

When you need emergency care, obviously you can't take the time to shop and compare. But most of the time it's not something where minutes count. When you need to have an appendix removed if you were to ask for an estimate from a hospital you would get laughed at. When I need to make a claim from car insurance I have to get multiple estimates, and if I didn't it would be very easy for people who do collision repair to charge outrageous amounts of money and the person making the claim won't care because they don't have any skin in the game. No reason why something comparable can't be done in health care, especially in larger cities where you have multiple providers.

And regarding drugs, yeah, that whole situation with Martin Shkreli and his sham pharmaceutical company and the AIDS drug is also an example of how drug makers get protected from any competition and are allowed to gouge people for whatever price they please.

Good points.

I'm curious what the impact on costs would have been if Obama hadn't been granting the waivers for businesses to fully comply with Obamacare. I know our premiums went up about 9% two years ago and 5% this year (thanks new young employees!). If we had been required to switch to an ACA compliant plan two years ago the increase would have been 23% and this year 16%.

Look I'm not thrilled with it either...
I lost my doctor and that just sucks

but it's not exactly the roller coaster of out of control spending we were told it was going to be
in fact its is projecting down from where Healthcare was pointing before it was launched

it's just interesting to see how this thing will play out

Cost my company money on day one.

Cost employees hours, as we had to keep them under 30 hours to avoid having to provide healthcare benefits to part timers.

Chizzang wrote:What if the Affordable Care Act actually ends up working...?
What if the cost reduction projects made by independent studies were right..?
What if a repeal would actually be BAD for America..?

The nightmare continues

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik ... story.html

I thought you quit drinking

Btw, what's their first?

AZGrizFan wrote:Cost my company money on day one.

Cost employees hours, as we had to keep them under 30 hours to avoid having to provide healthcare benefits to part timers.

No, no.

Cleets says it is all OK.

He'll soon put up some graph about how Costco is doing well and everyone is earning $15 per hour.

And skelly will put up some graph about how Walmart is using our gubmint to provide healthcare and other benefits to Walmart's employees.

Cluck U wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:Cost my company money on day one.

Cost employees hours, as we had to keep them under 30 hours to avoid having to provide healthcare benefits to part timers.

No, no.

Cleets says it is all OK.

He'll soon put up some graph about how Costco is doing well and everyone is earning $15 per hour.

And skelly will put up some graph about how Walmart is using our gubmint to provide healthcare and other benefits to Walmart's employees.

It shouldn't be your employer's responsibility to provide you with health insurance.

∞∞∞ wrote:I really think investing in a tough national push for better foods and a healthier lifestyle will pay dividends long-term, even possibly paying people (or giving tax cuts) to live better. Companies which have implemented such measures cut or significantly curbed their healthcare costs.

Wedgie is correct; we can only blame the ADA so much before looking at ourselves as a society.

Of course it's our fault! If you eat and live like shit then don't surprised when you have so many medical problems and require 15 medications. Ailments, like Diabetes, have been known to be reversed when a healthy diet and exercise become the lifestyle. The body will break down and there are things that we can't avoid. Our food supply is full of so much crap that girls are reaching puberty at age 7 or 8. Our food supply is genetically modified and pumped full of steroids and other hormones that it's not a wonder we aren't more fucked up.

We eat too much meat, too many processed foods, etc...

And it's not that difficult to get on track. Go to a farmers market and get your produce there and your meat if you're able to.

Chances are, the meat you find at a farmers market is antibiotic/hormone free. Less meat (it's good for the planet as well as your health and wallet) will pay dividends.

It's all about balance. I fail sometimes, but we work hard to make sure we eat right.


And clenz: $10K?! Was that the only option available? I just signed up for health insurance with BCBS and the highest deductible was $5000/family.

∞∞∞ wrote:I really think investing in a tough national push for better foods and a healthier lifestyle will pay dividends long-term, even possibly paying people (or giving tax cuts) to live better. Companies which have implemented such measures cut or significantly curbed their healthcare costs.

Wedgie is correct; we can only blame the ADA so much before looking at ourselves as a society.

Our company is an anomaly trip. You have no idea what the vast majority of people pay for insurance. We haven't had a real increase in well over 10-15 years.

andy7171 wrote:

∞∞∞ wrote:I really think investing in a tough national push for better foods and a healthier lifestyle will pay dividends long-term, even possibly paying people (or giving tax cuts) to live better. Companies which have implemented such measures cut or significantly curbed their healthcare costs.

Wedgie is correct; we can only blame the ADA so much before looking at ourselves as a society.

Our company is an anomaly trip. You have no idea what the vast majority of people pay for insurance. We haven't had a real increase in well over 10-15 years.

That's scary. Before I left Booz Allen, they ate the cost the first year and the second year costs went up about 7%. It wasn't too bad, but we luckily had 1 last year of great rates just as my wife was pregnant with Rose. It cost us $500 to have Lil CCU. A friend of mine just had a baby (still at BAH) and it cost her a few thousand. Same plan, same birth center, etc...

They started a program where if you had an HSA, then they'd give you $350 if you went in for a health screening. They gave your a $700 if you and your spouse went in for the screening. On top of that, choosing the Gold Plan earned you a $500 deposit in your HSA.

andy7171 wrote:

∞∞∞ wrote:I really think investing in a tough national push for better foods and a healthier lifestyle will pay dividends long-term, even possibly paying people (or giving tax cuts) to live better. Companies which have implemented such measures cut or significantly curbed their healthcare costs.

Wedgie is correct; we can only blame the ADA so much before looking at ourselves as a society.

Our company is an anomaly trip. You have no idea what the vast majority of people pay for insurance. We haven't had a real increase in well over 10-15 years.

I totally understand our company is an anomaly, but I still think health care costs can be cut down if overall our society becomes...healthier. I personally like what our company has done. Costs have risen very little, I'm living healthier, and I get $$$ to boot (great incentive).

If it's a well thought out program, I can see this working on a state or national level.

And keep in mind that we want to have drugs/medicine that can solve any and everything that ails us, and we want those drugs to be made available to us ASAP, and preferably free. Doesn't matter what it took to develop or create that magic drug, we want it, we want it now, and we don't want to pay for it. Most of the rest of the world has already adopted this approach and is free riding off of us in that they get it cheaper while we foot the bills. It's like the same thing that happens regarding military and security but in this case it happens with pharmaceutical products and breakthroughs. If we're willing to accept less breakthroughs and fewer magic drugs to fix all the things that can and do go wrong with us then that's certainly a way we could go.