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BisonFan02 wrote:I've got a whole lot of "Republicans" I would like to see leave the party...many are current congressmen (McConnell for example) and talking heads (Rove)...what's the point? They need to clean house.

JohnStOnge wrote:

BisonFan02 wrote:I've got a whole lot of "Republicans" I would like to see leave the party...many are current congressmen (McConnell for example) and talking heads (Rove)...what's the point? They need to clean house.

Nominating Trump is not cleaning house. It's soiling the house.

McCain and Romney were not soiling the house?

Pwns wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

I guess the guy is just a Hillary fanboy, right Cluck?

Will said a “President Trump” who was unopposed by Congress would be worse for the country than a Clinton presidency paired with a Republican-led Congress.

Instead, he said, Republican voters should just “make sure he loses,” then “grit their teeth for four years and win the White House.”

These are not random, isolated mistakes. They are the by-product of fundamental cultural pathologies within western elite circles – a deep rot. Why should institutions that have repeatedly authored such travesties, and spread such misery, continue to command respect and credibility? They shouldn’t, and they’re not. As Chris Hayes warned in his 2012 book Twilight of the Elites, “given both the scope and depth of this distrust [in elite institutions], it’s clear that we’re in the midst of something far grander and more perilous than just a crisis of government or a crisis of capitalism. We are in the midst of a broad and devastating crisis of authority.”

It’s natural – and inevitable – that malignant figures will try to exploit this vacuum of authority. All sorts of demagogues and extremists will try to re-direct mass anger for their own ends. Revolts against corrupt elite institutions can usher in reform and progress, but they can also create a space for the ugliest tribal impulses: xenophobia, authoritarianism, racism, fascism. One sees all of that, both good and bad, manifesting in the anti-establishment movements throughout the U.S., Europe, and the UK: including Brexit. All of this can be invigorating, or promising, or destabilizing, or dangerous: most likely a combination of all that.

The solution is not to subserviently cling to corrupt elite institutions out of fear of the alternatives. It is, instead, to help bury those institutions and their elite mavens and then fight for superior replacements. As Hayes put it in his book, the challenge is “directing the frustration, anger, and alienation we all feel into building a trans-ideological coalition that can actually dislodge the power of the post-meritocratic elite. One that marshals insurrectionist sentiment without succumbing to nihilism and manic, paranoid distrust.”

Corrupt elites always try to persuade people to continue to submit to their dominance in exchange for protection from forces that are even worse. That’s their game. But at some point, they themselves, and their prevailing order, become so destructive, so deceitful, so toxic, that their victims are willing to gamble that the alternatives will not be worse, or at least, they decide to embrace the satisfaction of spitting in the faces of those who have displayed nothing but contempt and condescension for them.

There is no one, unifying explanation for Brexit, or Trumpism, or the growing extremism of various stripes throughout the west, but this sense of angry impotence – an inability to see any option other than smashing those responsible for their plight – is undoubtedly a major factor. As Bevins put it, supporters of Trump, and Brexit, and other anti-establishment movements “are motivated not so much by whether they think the projects will actually work, but more by their desire to say FUCK YOU” to those they believe (with very good reason) have failed them.

Obviously, those who are the target of this anti-establishment rage – political, economic and media elites – are desperate to exonerate themselves, to demonstrate that they bear no responsibility for the suffering masses that are now refusing to be compliant and silent. The easiest course to achieve that goal is simply to demonize those with little power, wealth or possibility as stupid and racist: this is only happening because they are primitive and ignorant and hateful, not because they have any legitimate grievances or because I or my friends or my elite institutions have done anything wrong. As Vice’s Michael Tracey put it:

Michael Tracey
‏@mtracey
Elites' reaction to Brexit mimics their reaction to Trump: blame the amorality of ordinary people rather than reckon with elite failure

Because that reaction is so self-protective and self-glorifying, many U.S. media elites – including those who knew almost nothing about Brexit until 48 hours ago – instantly adopted it as their preferred narrative for explaining what happened, just as they’ve done with Trump, Corbyn, Sanders and any number of other instances where their entitlement to rule has been disregarded. They are so persuaded of their own natural superiority that any factions who refuse to see it and submit to it prove themselves, by definition, to be regressive, stunted and amoral.

kalm wrote:Well George, we WILL count you out. After all, you are a big part of the problem.

For better of for worse, whether it's justified or not, regardless of whether they've actually earned it or not, people feel entitled to a certain standard of living. This is at the core of the Brexit vote and Trump's rise and people like Will are left holding the bag, wondering what happened...

These are not random, isolated mistakes. They are the by-product of fundamental cultural pathologies within western elite circles – a deep rot. Why should institutions that have repeatedly authored such travesties, and spread such misery, continue to command respect and credibility? They shouldn’t, and they’re not. As Chris Hayes warned in his 2012 book Twilight of the Elites, “given both the scope and depth of this distrust [in elite institutions], it’s clear that we’re in the midst of something far grander and more perilous than just a crisis of government or a crisis of capitalism. We are in the midst of a broad and devastating crisis of authority.”

It’s natural – and inevitable – that malignant figures will try to exploit this vacuum of authority. All sorts of demagogues and extremists will try to re-direct mass anger for their own ends. Revolts against corrupt elite institutions can usher in reform and progress, but they can also create a space for the ugliest tribal impulses: xenophobia, authoritarianism, racism, fascism. One sees all of that, both good and bad, manifesting in the anti-establishment movements throughout the U.S., Europe, and the UK: including Brexit. All of this can be invigorating, or promising, or destabilizing, or dangerous: most likely a combination of all that.

The solution is not to subserviently cling to corrupt elite institutions out of fear of the alternatives. It is, instead, to help bury those institutions and their elite mavens and then fight for superior replacements. As Hayes put it in his book, the challenge is “directing the frustration, anger, and alienation we all feel into building a trans-ideological coalition that can actually dislodge the power of the post-meritocratic elite. One that marshals insurrectionist sentiment without succumbing to nihilism and manic, paranoid distrust.”

Corrupt elites always try to persuade people to continue to submit to their dominance in exchange for protection from forces that are even worse. That’s their game. But at some point, they themselves, and their prevailing order, become so destructive, so deceitful, so toxic, that their victims are willing to gamble that the alternatives will not be worse, or at least, they decide to embrace the satisfaction of spitting in the faces of those who have displayed nothing but contempt and condescension for them.

There is no one, unifying explanation for Brexit, or Trumpism, or the growing extremism of various stripes throughout the west, but this sense of angry impotence – an inability to see any option other than smashing those responsible for their plight – is undoubtedly a major factor. As Bevins put it, supporters of Trump, and Brexit, and other anti-establishment movements “are motivated not so much by whether they think the projects will actually work, but more by their desire to say **** YOU” to those they believe (with very good reason) have failed them.

Obviously, those who are the target of this anti-establishment rage – political, economic and media elites – are desperate to exonerate themselves, to demonstrate that they bear no responsibility for the suffering masses that are now refusing to be compliant and silent. The easiest course to achieve that goal is simply to demonize those with little power, wealth or possibility as stupid and racist: this is only happening because they are primitive and ignorant and hateful, not because they have any legitimate grievances or because I or my friends or my elite institutions have done anything wrong. As Vice’s Michael Tracey put it:

Michael Tracey
‏@mtracey
Elites' reaction to Brexit mimics their reaction to Trump: blame the amorality of ordinary people rather than reckon with elite failure

Because that reaction is so self-protective and self-glorifying, many U.S. media elites – including those who knew almost nothing about Brexit until 48 hours ago – instantly adopted it as their preferred narrative for explaining what happened, just as they’ve done with Trump, Corbyn, Sanders and any number of other instances where their entitlement to rule has been disregarded. They are so persuaded of their own natural superiority that any factions who refuse to see it and submit to it prove themselves, by definition, to be regressive, stunted and amoral.

https://theintercept.com/2016/06/25/bre ... titutions/

GannonFan wrote:

kalm wrote:Well George, we WILL count you out. After all, you are a big part of the problem.

For better of for worse, whether it's justified or not, regardless of whether they've actually earned it or not, people feel entitled to a certain standard of living. This is at the core of the Brexit vote and Trump's rise and people like Will are left holding the bag, wondering what happened...




https://theintercept.com/2016/06/25/bre ... titutions/

I agree with this, and of course you can see a lot of truth in it. I think people are genuinely tired of being told by the political elite, whichever side of the aisle they are on, that the politicians are right and if you don't agree with them then you are wrong, evil, probably guilty of many negative -isms, and opposed to all that is true and good. The elite have gone too far down the road of self-identified moral and philosophical superiority that it's hard for them to come back. They're almost repulsed by the common people they claim to be leading.

DSUrocks07 wrote:We are witnessing the development of a true multiparty system in the US.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

kalm wrote: There is no one, unifying explanation for Brexit, or Trumpism, or the growing extremism of various stripes throughout the west, but this sense of angry impotence – an inability to see any option other than smashing those responsible for their plight – is undoubtedly a major factor. As Bevins put it, supporters of Trump, and Brexit, and other anti-establishment movements “are motivated not so much by whether they think the projects will actually work, but more by their desire to say FUCK YOU” to those they believe (with very good reason) have failed them.

Obviously, those who are the target of this anti-establishment rage – political, economic and media elites – are desperate to exonerate themselves, to demonstrate that they bear no responsibility for the suffering masses that are now refusing to be compliant and silent. The easiest course to achieve that goal is simply to demonize those with little power, wealth or possibility as stupid and racist: this is only happening because they are primitive and ignorant and hateful, not because they have any legitimate grievances or because I or my friends or my elite institutions have done anything wrong.

Because that reaction is so self-protective and self-glorifying, many U.S. media elites – including those who knew almost nothing about Brexit until 48 hours ago – instantly adopted it as their preferred narrative for explaining what happened, just as they’ve done with Trump, Corbyn, Sanders and any number of other instances where their entitlement to rule has been disregarded. They are so persuaded of their own natural superiority that any factions who refuse to see it and submit to it prove themselves, by definition, to be regressive, stunted and amoral.

GannonFan wrote:

kalm wrote:Well George, we WILL count you out. After all, you are a big part of the problem.

For better of for worse, whether it's justified or not, regardless of whether they've actually earned it or not, people feel entitled to a certain standard of living. This is at the core of the Brexit vote and Trump's rise and people like Will are left holding the bag, wondering what happened...




https://theintercept.com/2016/06/25/bre ... titutions/

I agree with this, and of course you can see a lot of truth in it. I think people are genuinely tired of being told by the political elite, whichever side of the aisle they are on, that the politicians are right and if you don't agree with them then you are wrong, evil, probably guilty of many negative -isms, and opposed to all that is true and good. The elite have gone too far down the road of self-identified moral and philosophical superiority that it's hard for them to come back. They're almost repulsed by the common people they claim to be leading.

supporters of Trump, and Brexit, and other anti-establishment movements “are motivated not so much by whether they think the projects will actually work, but more by their desire to say **** YOU” to those they believe (with very good reason) have failed them.

Pwns wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

I guess the guy is just a Hillary fanboy, right Cluck?

Baldy wrote:

Pwns wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

I guess the guy is just a Hillary fanboy, right Cluck?

Awww...an establishment Neocon got his widdle feewings hurt.

Go cry me a river and write another baseball book, George.

Pwns wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

I guess the guy is just a Hillary fanboy, right Cluck?

DSUrocks07 wrote:We are witnessing the development of a true multiparty system in the US.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

AZGrizFan wrote:

DSUrocks07 wrote:We are witnessing the development of a true multiparty system in the US.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

God lets hope so.

Really hoping that, with what happened with Trump and with the success Bernie Sanders saw/had, that people are starting to wake up...

Pwns wrote:

DSUrocks07 wrote:We are witnessing the development of a true multiparty system in the US.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

I really don't like Trump but saying he's going to destroy the GOP is giving him waaaaaaaaay too much credit. Hilldog's first term will be just like Obama's first two years in office...republicans doing what they can without the WH or majorities in either chamber of congress. After people realize how dangerous she is the GOP will make another big win in the 2018 midterms. Business as usual.