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Let this current saga be the latest wake-up call for you Olbermaniacs and leftists out there. These people can't even read their own writings, let alone control your health care.

link? or is this just a rant?

BigApp wrote:Let this current saga be the latest wake-up call for you Olbermaniacs and leftists out there. These people can't even read their own writings, let alone control your health care.

amen to that

I'll second a link. Relevance?

I'm really sick of people who have insurance looking down from their high horses at those of us who don't. You know what? At this point, just about anything that will help cover health costs would be great. I've got an ankle that is giving me a lot of trouble; I suspect I broke it years ago and it's just never healed right.

But that means at least an x-ray, probably a visit to a specialist, along with the doctor's visit...there's no way in HELL I can afford that. I don't qualify for any government health care because I'm not going to spawn. It really pisses me off.

If I had a serious health issue, or got in a car accident or something, I would most likely have to declare BANKRUPTCY because there's no way in HELL I could afford it.

It's working for almost every other industrialized nation in the world, it could work for us. Do you realize how much the uninsured cost everyone else? It would behoove you for everyone to have insurance.

why don't you have insurance?

I want the Canadian system - with the option to buy your own coverage or supplemental plans if you want. Since specialists can be difficult to see in the Canadian system, and surgeries can take too long to happen... supplemental plans are important. However, I think a basic level of health care, paid for by both taxpayers and corporations would save all of us a great deal of money, make our businesses more competitive in the global economy, make our small businesses able to provide health care again (which most would like to do)...

I've met with canadian pols, and I think their conservative party has it right. National Health System, with the option to buy supplemental plans for those who want it. It ensures that every American has health care (not just emergency care) and that we are keeping our population healthier with prevention methods instead of treating it only when it becomes an emergency.

I recognize conks gripes about putting it in the hands of the government... but I would point out that the two health care providers with the HIGHEST customer satisfaction rates in terms of service are the V.A. at #1 and Medicare at #2. Put simply, the market has failed to provide health care in an adequate way for our citizens... it's hurting our economic productivity and the ability of our companies to compete globally. We are the ONLY first world country that fails to do this... and I think it's a colossal mistake.

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:I want the Canadian system - with the option to buy your own coverage or supplemental plans if you want. Since specialists can be difficult to see in the Canadian system, and surgeries can take too long to happen... supplemental plans are important. However, I think a basic level of health care, paid for by both taxpayers and corporations would save all of us a great deal of money, make our businesses more competitive in the global economy, make our small businesses able to provide health care again (which most would like to do)...

I've met with canadian pols, and I think their conservative party has it right. National Health System, with the option to buy supplemental plans for those who want it. It ensures that every American has health care (not just emergency care) and that we are keeping our population healthier with prevention methods instead of treating it only when it becomes an emergency.

I recognize conks gripes about putting it in the hands of the government... but I would point out that the two health care providers with the HIGHEST customer satisfaction rates in terms of service are the V.A. at #1 and Medicare at #2. Put simply, the market has failed to provide health care in an adequate way for our citizens... it's hurting our economic productivity and the ability of our companies to compete globally. We are the ONLY first world country that fails to do this... and I think it's a colossal mistake.

I'd love to see something to back up your claim that the VA is # 1 in customer satisfaction...

Col Hogan wrote:

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:I want the Canadian system - with the option to buy your own coverage or supplemental plans if you want. Since specialists can be difficult to see in the Canadian system, and surgeries can take too long to happen... supplemental plans are important. However, I think a basic level of health care, paid for by both taxpayers and corporations would save all of us a great deal of money, make our businesses more competitive in the global economy, make our small businesses able to provide health care again (which most would like to do)...

I've met with canadian pols, and I think their conservative party has it right. National Health System, with the option to buy supplemental plans for those who want it. It ensures that every American has health care (not just emergency care) and that we are keeping our population healthier with prevention methods instead of treating it only when it becomes an emergency.

I recognize conks gripes about putting it in the hands of the government... but I would point out that the two health care providers with the HIGHEST customer satisfaction rates in terms of service are the V.A. at #1 and Medicare at #2. Put simply, the market has failed to provide health care in an adequate way for our citizens... it's hurting our economic productivity and the ability of our companies to compete globally. We are the ONLY first world country that fails to do this... and I think it's a colossal mistake.

I'd love to see something to back up your claim that the VA is # 1 in customer satisfaction...

There was an entire book on it, called Best Care Anywere. It was also previewed in an article in Washington Monthly - http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/featur ... ngman.html

Col Hogan wrote:

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:I want the Canadian system - with the option to buy your own coverage or supplemental plans if you want. Since specialists can be difficult to see in the Canadian system, and surgeries can take too long to happen... supplemental plans are important. However, I think a basic level of health care, paid for by both taxpayers and corporations would save all of us a great deal of money, make our businesses more competitive in the global economy, make our small businesses able to provide health care again (which most would like to do)...

I've met with canadian pols, and I think their conservative party has it right. National Health System, with the option to buy supplemental plans for those who want it. It ensures that every American has health care (not just emergency care) and that we are keeping our population healthier with prevention methods instead of treating it only when it becomes an emergency.

I recognize conks gripes about putting it in the hands of the government... but I would point out that the two health care providers with the HIGHEST customer satisfaction rates in terms of service are the V.A. at #1 and Medicare at #2. Put simply, the market has failed to provide health care in an adequate way for our citizens... it's hurting our economic productivity and the ability of our companies to compete globally. We are the ONLY first world country that fails to do this... and I think it's a colossal mistake.

I'd love to see something to back up your claim that the VA is # 1 in customer satisfaction...

WASHINGTON, Jan. 20, 2006 – Veterans continued to rate the care they receive through the Department of Veterans Affairs health care system higher than other Americans rate private-sector health care for the sixth consecutive year, a new annual report on customer satisfaction reveals.

For VA Secretary R. James Nicholson, the news is affirmation of what he called "the greatest story never told," that the VA offers top-quality care for its patients.

VA medical services received high marks during the annual American Customer Satisfaction Index, which has ranked customer satisfaction with various federal programs and private-sector industries and major companies since 1994.

I would not ave guessed it, but there it is.

What he said.....

I wonder if the cost of the care factors in as well to how people percieve it?


Or do Veterans as a group have a more realistic view as to what quality care is?

dbackjon wrote:I wonder if the cost of the care factors in as well to how people percieve it?


Or do Veterans as a group have a more realistic view as to what quality care is?

You might be on to something there. Maybe you are starting with younger and more fit patients. Maybe it's something else?

bobbythekidd wrote:

dbackjon wrote:I wonder if the cost of the care factors in as well to how people percieve it?


Or do Veterans as a group have a more realistic view as to what quality care is?

You might be on to something there. Maybe you are starting with younger and more fit patients. Maybe it's something else?

..or, maybe it's just that military people are so used to getting by with less, that what they consider "quality health care" would apall the normal, couch-sitting, potato-chip-eatin', thumb-sucking liberal who never stood a post.

AZGrizFan wrote:

bobbythekidd wrote: You might be on to something there. Maybe you are starting with younger and more fit patients. Maybe it's something else?

..or, maybe it's just that military people are so used to getting by with less, that what they consider "quality health care" would apall the normal, couch-sitting, potato-chip-eatin', thumb-sucking liberal who never stood a post.

I was kinda leaning towards that - but would not limit myself to Liberals, Mr. Broadbrush. Plenty of Wall Street/Chickenhawk/College Republicans Conks never served, either...

BigApp wrote:Let this current saga be the latest wake-up call for you Olbermaniacs and leftists out there. These people can't even read their own writings, let alone control your health care.

I understand what you're saying. Congress didn't "know" that the bonuses for AIG were in the legislation, and we're going to trust them to provide Americans adequate insurance (the same people who trusted Bush to start a war and Paulson/ Geithner to handle the Treasury). I wouldn't trust them to adequately tie my shoe.

There's no easy answer for health care, especially when you have two sides based in an ideology of sorts. Those the feel health care is an inalienable right, and those that don't. I don't know that that gap can be bridged. However, if I am going to help foot the bill, I don't want it to be "any kind of health care," it had better be worth the hassle and money.

Norway. Happiest people on earth. State-subsidized health care. Best standard of living in the world.

Purple For Life wrote:I'll second a link. Relevance?

I'm really sick of people who have insurance looking down from their high horses at those of us who don't. You know what? At this point, just about anything that will help cover health costs would be great. I've got an ankle that is giving me a lot of trouble; I suspect I broke it years ago and it's just never healed right.

But that means at least an x-ray, probably a visit to a specialist, along with the doctor's visit...there's no way in HELL I can afford that. I don't qualify for any government health care because I'm not going to spawn. It really pisses me off.

If I had a serious health issue, or got in a car accident or something, I would most likely have to declare BANKRUPTCY because there's no way in HELL I could afford it.

It's working for almost every other industrialized nation in the world, it could work for us. Do you realize how much the uninsured cost everyone else? It would behoove you for everyone to have insurance.

PFL, this isn't as much about subsidized enrollee's abusing their insurance as it is about government's completely utter incompetence at managing massive bureaucracies. I can't speak for anyone else, but I've NEVER looked down upon the uninsured.

If I had God like powers, I'd make sure that every American could obtain healthcare without living under the fear of going bankrupt. THAT is the biggest issue facing America's healthcare system.

If you get injured...you can obtain treatment...although you have to "fight" for it...it's what happens afterwards that's truly debilitating. The collections process.

I heard a comment last night that the country could operate without health insurance...who feeds at the administative trough to the tune of 30-35% of total cost. Haven't seen the stat yet to back it up...but if true...Congress needs to bring the weight of the IRS down on the industry.

To boot...Californians have watched the healthcare industry out here transition from non-profits to for-profits...being forced to recapitalize their balance sheets repeatedly to dodge the tax man...and it has become a genuine farce...even heard some uneducated immigrant who barely spoke english comment a few weeks back, "What's with all the new hospital construction? If they have the money to always build new hospitals, maybe they could drop their prices a little so people could actually use the hospital." (true story). Have to agree with the fella...

Cost of healthcare, next to union corruption, is the single largest cause of the cataclysmic labor market implosion which has now decimated our GDP. Rather than allowing Drive By Policy Pelosi to fv(k up this mess any further...Obama needs to convene a committee of business, labor, insurance and healthcare experts INCLUDING ACTUARIALS FROM ALL FOUR...and generate a plan, a policy blueprint that will guide all legislation and tax code from this day forward, and THAT NONE OF THE INDUSTRIES WILL LIKE.

Sounds weird, you say? Not by a long shot. Past policies have been established trying to please all the people all the time. That always leads to failure.

To succeed, the insurance industry will need to change their operational model.
To succeed, the health care industry will need to change their operational model.
To succeed, employers will need to change their operational model.
To succeed, labor representation will need to change their operational model.

ALL WILL HAVE TO REDUCE THEIR "EXPECTATIONS" OR RATE OF RETURN.

How will government accomplish that?

...using the same mechanism that has allowed all four to dodge the problem in the past...the IRS.

Funny. Can't find anything in that to disgree with, T.

Cap'n Cat wrote:Norway. Happiest people on earth. State-subsidized health care. Best standard of living in the world.

And the 7th highest tax rate of democratic nations. At 43.6% AVERAGE rate, compared to 28.9% for the U.S. ...they better make housecalls.

travelinman67 wrote:

Cap'n Cat wrote:Norway. Happiest people on earth. State-subsidized health care. Best standard of living in the world.

And the 7th highest tax rate of democratic nations. At 43.6% AVERAGE rate, compared to 28.9% for the U.S. ...they better make housecalls.

Key word, T: happy. They're not obsessed with material gain. They live a good life - they work hard and play hard and they have a wonderful compact with the state, something we don't have and which will be our downfall.


What could be wrong with the Norway experience? Is it really a he-who-dies-with-the-most-toys-wins thing?

Being in financial side of medicine, it is ironic that the absolutely most effecient PAYOR around is Medicare.

Medicare is light years ahead of any other governmental branch or private insurer when it comes to quick claim turnaround, ease of instruction for HOW to bill, and the most proactive in rooting out abusive billing situations. Medicare issues clear guidelines on what they will pay, when they will pay, and when they reject a claim, the reason, along with the appeal process is very fair and clear.

The absolute worst? Large non-profits - most don't know their head from their asses.

Cap'n Cat wrote:

travelinman67 wrote:
And the 7th highest tax rate of democratic nations. At 43.6% AVERAGE rate, compared to 28.9% for the U.S. ...they better make housecalls.

Key word, T: happy. They're not obsessed with material gain. They live a good life - they work hard and play hard and they have a wonderful compact with the state, something we don't have and which will be our downfall.


What could be wrong with the Norway experience? Is it really a he-who-dies-with-the-most-toys-wins thing?

Key word, Cap'n: Distracted.

dbackjon wrote:Being in financial side of medicine, it is ironic that the absolutely most effecient PAYOR around is Medicare.

Medicare is light years ahead of any other governmental branch or private insurer when it comes to quick claim turnaround, ease of instruction for HOW to bill, and the most proactive in rooting out abusive billing situations. Medicare issues clear guidelines on what they will pay, when they will pay, and when they reject a claim, the reason, along with the appeal process is very fair and clear.

The absolute worst? Large non-profits - most don't know their head from their asses.

So, what you're saying Jon is that, in fact, there are at least a few government agencies who serve the people well, huh? Probably dozens and dozens more if the Conks could see past their cardboard cutouts of Rush Limbaugh with the dried up jizz all around its mouth?

T - Your scenario for bringing these groups to the table seems to be what is going to happen. Talking to my contacts who work on the Hill... the GOP has acknowledged that a HUGE health care change is coming. They've decided (well a few of them) that they'd like input on the process... but there is a mandate from the public for it.

Cap'n Cat wrote:

travelinman67 wrote:
And the 7th highest tax rate of democratic nations. At 43.6% AVERAGE rate, compared to 28.9% for the U.S. ...they better make housecalls.

Key word, T: happy. They're not obsessed with material gain. They live a good life - they work hard and play hard and they have a wonderful compact with the state, something we don't have and which will be our downfall.


What could be wrong with the Norway experience? Is it really a he-who-dies-with-the-most-toys-wins thing?

Nah....they're happy because they've got US defendin their sorry asses...