Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by Gil Dobie »

∞∞∞ wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:Maybe we should tear down all the Frank Lloyd Wright homes and build more modern, green homes in their place.
Frank Lloyd Wright is one of the biggest examples of my thinking (and probably influenced it).

One of his core beliefs as an architect is that structures are living entities and that like life itself, they are meant to die. People preserving his stuff will even tell you he'd be shocked, and possibly disappointed, his stuff is still standing today.
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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by BDKJMU »

I remember 9/11 seeing that NYFD had literally dozens and dozens of firetrucks, and hundreds and hundreds of firefighters, that were on scene in a relatively short period of time. I got the impression the French response didn’t appear to have been as rapid.

The Seine River runs right beside the Cathedral. How come no fireboats?
How come no helicopters or air tankers that could have dropped water?

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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by Chizzang »

BDKJMU wrote:I remember 9/11 seeing that NYFD had literally dozens and dozens of firetrucks, and hundreds and hundreds of firefighters, that were on scene in a relatively short period of time. I got the impression the French response didn’t appear to have been as rapid.

The Seine River runs right beside the Cathedral. How come no fireboats?
How come no helicopters or air tankers that could have dropped water?
Dude, they were on lunch break...
Europe essentially goes dark for 90 minutes in the middle of every week day

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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by ∞∞∞ »

BDKJMU wrote:I remember 9/11 seeing that NYFD had literally dozens and dozens of firetrucks, and hundreds and hundreds of firefighters, that were on scene in a relatively short period of time. I got the impression the French response didn’t appear to have been as rapid.

The Seine River runs right beside the Cathedral. How come no fireboats?
How come no helicopters or air tankers that could have dropped water?
Dropping water on it seems like an awful idea; I'm not sure why fireboats wouldn't work other than maybe the pumping power isn't strong enough (it's a few hundred feet from the river).

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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by Ibanez »

∞∞∞ wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:Maybe we should tear down all the Frank Lloyd Wright homes and build more modern, green homes in their place.
Frank Lloyd Wright is one of the biggest examples of my thinking (and probably influenced it).

One of his core beliefs as an architect is that structures are living entities and that like life itself, they are meant to die. People preserving his stuff will even tell you he'd be shocked, and possibly disappointed, his stuff is still standing today.
Yup. I figured as much. 8-)

I mean, look at how beautiful these are

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We need more homes and buildings to look like that.
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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by Ibanez »

Gil Dobie wrote:
∞∞∞ wrote: We can do infinitely better than the White House, especially for a structure that's still in use. It's not even that impressive from an architectural standpoint.
A couple guys flying planes said the same thing about the World Trade Center. :ohno:
yeah, it's not impressive.
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These gargoyles are rainspouts
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Equally unimpressive was how new and innovative design features were incorporated.



Trip, have to ever actually stood in Notre Dame? Being in that space, attending a mass and taking part in French Culture (which I think you would like) is probably one of the most impressive and awe inspiring things i've seen next to mass in St. Peter's Basilica.
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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by Ibanez »

I do realize i'm coming on strong, btw. I just don't see how someone looks at an 800+ yr old cathedral, known world wide, immortailzed in literature and art and thinks, "well, buildings burn. Now we can put up something really cool like a Holiday Inn!"
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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by ∞∞∞ »

Oh I really like Notre Dame. I think it's a marvel of architecture for its period.

But I don't get (easily) attached to physical structures.

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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by ∞∞∞ »

Ibanez wrote:
∞∞∞ wrote: Frank Lloyd Wright is one of the biggest examples of my thinking (and probably influenced it).

One of his core beliefs as an architect is that structures are living entities and that like life itself, they are meant to die. People preserving his stuff will even tell you he'd be shocked, and possibly disappointed, his stuff is still standing today.
Yup. I figured as much. 8-)

I mean, look at how beautiful these are

Image

Image

We need more homes and buildings to look like that.
Heck yeah. That's gorgeous architecture.

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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by Gil Dobie »

Used to live close to this one, which was an Edward Jones office at one time.

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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by Col Hogan »

Gil Dobie wrote:Used to live close to this one, which was an Edward Jones office at one time.

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I went on a business trip with three engineers to Peoria...we had to be at the client at 9AM...

I was told we had to leave the hotel at 7AM...and wanted to know why so early...

There is a Frank Lloyd Wright house in Peoria, and it was on their list to see...

OK...

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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by CID1990 »

∞∞∞ wrote:
Ibanez wrote: :roll: :ohno:
I do genuinely get that it's a connection between past and present; on the other hand, the engineer in me sees it for what it is: a building. I don't like to get emotionally connected to physical structures because they don't have infinite lifespans and it's just a matter of who'll witness each structure's death.

Plus it's a good opportunity for this generation to leave something even better for the next ones.

Then again, there's quite a few buildings people find worth saving that I think should be torn down. :lol:
There’s a city you’d love then...

Their “urban planning” board is chock full of little Treeps

It is called Saigon and they can’t demolish and uproot fast enough. It was a beautiful city just 10 years ago


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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by CID1990 »

Ibanez wrote:
BDKJMU wrote:The wooden inside is what’s burning (was all of that original?). The stone walls are still standing.

WWII there were countless buildings & churches heavily damaged and/or destroyed. Many were rebuilt. I don’t know if there were any over 800 years old, but I’m sure there were some. It sucks, but it happens.
There are 1000 ur old churches still standing in France. I’ve been in them. They’ve survived the wars

And I. agree. It sucks. But I still disagree with Trip about tearing them down so we can build some ugly building. Churches, IMO, have gone from these beautiful buildings to steel warehouse looking garbage dumps. They’re terrible.


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You know what makes those old cathedrals beautiful?

Imperfect engineering practices

Flying buttresses were the answer to building tall stone structures before the days of steel

Makes it easier for God to drop them on the heads of the faithful


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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by ∞∞∞ »

CID1990 wrote:
∞∞∞ wrote: I do genuinely get that it's a connection between past and present; on the other hand, the engineer in me sees it for what it is: a building. I don't like to get emotionally connected to physical structures because they don't have infinite lifespans and it's just a matter of who'll witness each structure's death.

Plus it's a good opportunity for this generation to leave something even better for the next ones.

Then again, there's quite a few buildings people find worth saving that I think should be torn down. :lol:
There’s a city you’d love then...

Their “urban planning” board is chock full of little Treeps

It is called Saigon and they can’t demolish and uproot fast enough. It was a beautiful city just 10 years ago
I find the evolution of cities quite beautiful. To me, they's one of mankind's ultimate achievements and reflect our story. When they stay the same, it only shows a society's lack of progress or disastrous encounter.

I've never been to Ho Chi Minh, but I'm sure it'll benefit from modern structures than ones that are decades past their useful lives, regardless of how "pretty" they looked. It's simply the way of the world.

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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by kalm »

∞∞∞ wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
There’s a city you’d love then...

Their “urban planning” board is chock full of little Treeps

It is called Saigon and they can’t demolish and uproot fast enough. It was a beautiful city just 10 years ago
I find the evolution of cities quite beautiful. To me, they's one of mankind's ultimate achievements and reflect our story. When they stay the same, it only shows a society's lack of progress or disastrous encounter.

I've never been to Ho Chi Minh, but I'm sure it'll benefit from modern structures than ones that are decades past their useful lives, regardless of how "pretty" they looked. It's simply the way of the world.
It’s been decades since I read the Fountainhead but for some reason you’re reminding me right now of sOme JSO-Howard Roarke hybrid...

Which is quite unsettling...
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Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by CID1990 »

∞∞∞ wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
There’s a city you’d love then...

Their “urban planning” board is chock full of little Treeps

It is called Saigon and they can’t demolish and uproot fast enough. It was a beautiful city just 10 years ago
I find the evolution of cities quite beautiful. To me, they's one of mankind's ultimate achievements and reflect our story. When they stay the same, it only shows a society's lack of progress or disastrous encounter.

I've never been to Ho Chi Minh, but I'm sure it'll benefit from modern structures than ones that are decades past their useful lives, regardless of how "pretty" they looked. It's simply the way of the world.
I’m not talking about HCMC... I’m talking about Saigon.

Do you know the difference?

This is Saigon City Hall, which is in Ho Chi Minh City:
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Saigon Opera House:

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Saigon Central Post Office:

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Saigon Notre Dame:

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All of these buildings are on the eventual chopping block. Ironic that the French colonial buildings are the last to go... the Vietnamese got rid of most of their indigenous architecture years ago.

The author of this article also doesn’t understand the distinction between Saigon and HCMC- yet the entire article is about District 1, which is Saigon:

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019 ... ge-vietnam





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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by ∞∞∞ »

I did not understand the distinction.

Those are gorgeous buildings, but if society's slated for their destruction for whatever's necessary, it's their choice. I'm not sure why the Cathedral would be destroyed unless its outgrown the parish, but I'm sure there's no separation of church and state in Vietnam (which is a separate subject).

Again, I don't think every structure ever created that's reached a certain age is worth saving.

I do think something like Notre Dame with rich history and architecture is worth it, but I don't weep its destruction unless human lives are involved. Luckily Notre Dame was saved and can now be built into something even better; the fire is now part of its history and this generation can add to the story.

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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by 93henfan »

Good God, so much talk. The thing burned. They failed to install a proper retrofitted fire suppression system. If it was really the end of the world if it burned, they would have planned better. It's 2019. Yeah, it sucks to lose historical artifacts, but jeez, some basic planning would have averted this. Take the insurance money and build a new one that isn't a tinderbox.

Trip is right on this one.
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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by CID1990 »

93henfan wrote:Good God, so much talk. The thing burned. They failed to install a proper retrofitted fire suppression system. If it was really the end of the world if it burned, they would have planned better. It's 2019. Yeah, it sucks to lose historical artifacts, but jeez, some basic planning would have averted this. Take the insurance money and build a new one that isn't a tinderbox.

Trip is right on this one.
Well that’s another issue - of course this could have been prevented


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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by ∞∞∞ »

93henfan wrote:Good God, so much talk. The thing burned. They failed to install a proper retrofitted fire suppression system. If it was really the end of the world if it burned, they would have planned better. It's 2019. Yeah, it sucks to lose historical artifacts, but jeez, some basic planning would have averted this. Take the insurance money and build a new one that isn't a tinderbox.

Trip is right on this one.
It'll be a better cathedral because of this, and hopefully last even longer.

And the history will still be there; if anything, the fire adds to it.

The best thing here is that no one died.

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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by CID1990 »

∞∞∞ wrote:
93henfan wrote:Good God, so much talk. The thing burned. They failed to install a proper retrofitted fire suppression system. If it was really the end of the world if it burned, they would have planned better. It's 2019. Yeah, it sucks to lose historical artifacts, but jeez, some basic planning would have averted this. Take the insurance money and build a new one that isn't a tinderbox.

Trip is right on this one.
It'll be a better cathedral because of this, and hopefully last even longer.

And the history will still be there; if anything, the fire adds to it.

The best thing here is that no one died.
God’s getting rusty in his old age.

He used to take out whole parishes when he dropped these things


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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by ∞∞∞ »

CID1990 wrote:
∞∞∞ wrote: It'll be a better cathedral because of this, and hopefully last even longer.

And the history will still be there; if anything, the fire adds to it.

The best thing here is that no one died.
God’s getting rusty in his old age.

He used to take out whole parishes when he dropped these things.
My favorite are those grasping for symbolism in this, especially connecting it to "western decline."

Hell we've lost more grand structures to natural disasters, fire, neglect, obsoletion, and war than we've saved. A fire like this is pretty normal when it comes to the course of human history. If anything it's a miracle Notre Dame lasted this long without a major disaster. :lol:

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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by Ivytalk »

kalm wrote:
∞∞∞ wrote: I find the evolution of cities quite beautiful. To me, they's one of mankind's ultimate achievements and reflect our story. When they stay the same, it only shows a society's lack of progress or disastrous encounter.

I've never been to Ho Chi Minh, but I'm sure it'll benefit from modern structures than ones that are decades past their useful lives, regardless of how "pretty" they looked. It's simply the way of the world.
It’s been decades since I read the Fountainhead but for some reason you’re reminding me right now of sOme JSO-Howard Roarke hybrid...

Which is quite unsettling...
You’re a better Libertarian than I am. ;) I find Ayn Rand’s prose dense and occasionally unintelligible. Haven’t completed a chapter of any of her books. I guess that makes me an LP apostate.

But I hear she fucked like a bunny, so there’s that.
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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by Ibanez »

Ivytalk wrote:
kalm wrote:
It’s been decades since I read the Fountainhead but for some reason you’re reminding me right now of sOme JSO-Howard Roarke hybrid...

Which is quite unsettling...
You’re a better Libertarian than I am. ;) I find Ayn Rand’s prose dense and occasionally unintelligible. Haven’t completed a chapter of any of her books. I guess that makes me an LP apostate.

But I hear she fucked like a bunny, so there’s that.
I wanted to read Ayn Rand's books...then I decided to just listen to them on tape.


Then I decided to listen to something better. Her writing is atrocious. It's pure coveffe.
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Re: Miscellaneous news items that don't warrant their own thread

Post by Col Hogan »

93henfan wrote:Good God, so much talk. The thing burned. They failed to install a proper retrofitted fire suppression system. If it was really the end of the world if it burned, they would have planned better. It's 2019. Yeah, it sucks to lose historical artifacts, but jeez, some basic planning would have averted this. Take the insurance money and build a new one that isn't a tinderbox.

Trip is right on this one.
CBS News did a feature on Notre Dame a few months ago, focusing on the lack of money to maintain the facility...there is no insurance...they couldn’t even keep the building from slowly falling apart...

The core of the CBS feature was on the fund raising going on to try and simply fix some of the structural deficiencies that have developed over the centuries of no care...

So, maybe the fire will be a blessing in disguise...one French billionaire and his company has already pledged 200 million euros...and the Japanese government has agreed to help fund reconstruction efforts...

:coffee:
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