The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

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Re: The Official

Post by Chizzang »

Ivytalk wrote:
Chizzang wrote:

The Church has been shoveling their moral high ground into this dumpster fire for 2 years now...
Proving that their faith in their book is bullsh!t
Proving that their morality is more posturing than a belief system

Proving by their own actions and words
that American Christianity is a actually just a well run money grab

:coffee:
Mainline Protestant denominations have been losing members and money for years, although that may have levelled off recently. Evangelicals holding their own but not surging. Fastest growing group over past 20 years is the “unchurched”/ “Nones”/ Chizzangs. :nod:
It's easy to believe in a higher power
something beyond ourselves and beyond our understanding
Without having to believe in magical iron age goat herders

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Re: RE: Re: The Official

Post by JohnStOnge »

ALPHAGRIZ1 wrote:
BDKJMU wrote:US economy grows by 3.2% in the first quarter, topping expectations

....best growth to start a year in four years. First-quarter GDP expanded by 3.2%, the Bureau of Economic Analysis said in its initial read of the economy for that period. Economists polled by Dow Jones expected the U.S. economy increased by 2.5% in the first quarter. It was the first time since 2015 that first-quarter GDP topped 3%.....”
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/26/gdp-q1- ... -read.html
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Just shows that Trump really is smarter than everyone else commenting on him.

TRUMP did this against everyone else, its why hes Americas President and its why we voted for him.

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You think that because Trump was President during a first quarter, 2019, that had GDP growth ALMOST as large as we had during half (two of four) of the first quarters during Obama's second term? We had 3.6% growth in the first quarter of 2013 and 3.3% growth during the first quarter of 2015. We also had 3.2% first quarter growth in 2012. So we had 3.2% or better first quarter growth during three of the final five years of Obama's term.

3.2% first quarter growth is not a rare thing. Once again: Trump people are trying to sell the idea that things have REALLY taken off and gotten better now that the Dear Leader is President. It's a snow job.
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Post by JohnStOnge »

In all seriousness about the GDP thing I've thought for a while that what we've seen is a decrease in the variability of quarterly GDP growth. I found a graph that really shows that. It's quarterly GDP growth for the past 10 years. So it's going back to the big recession around 2009 through the present. See below. You can see that during the Obama administration the "swings" were bigger. We had both higher and lower quarterly GDP growth than we've had so far during Trump's administration. You can also see that most of quarterly growth rates during Trump are actually below the trend line. It's not like the quarter to quarter variations tend to break "upward" during Trump to suggest that the overall central trend has gotten "better."

The overall central trend has not changed. There's no perceptable upswing in GDP associated with Trump taking office. Just a decrease in variability. The highs haven't been as high and the lows haven't been as low as they were during the Obama administration. You can generate the graph at https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp-growth.

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Re: The Official

Post by JohnStOnge »

CID1990 wrote:Clitz will love this one -

French is spot on

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/04/ ... l-witness/


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Agreed. I like it because it's similar to terminology I've used in conversations with certain Evangelical Christian family members. Like my sister in law. I tell them that my understanding is that "witness" is one of the most important things about Christianity and that White Evangelical Christians supporting Trump seriously compromises that. The problem is that some of those people actually believe Trump "accepted Christ and changed his life." And nothing you can say will stop them from rationalizing the obvious contradictions of that outlook. It's really is, I think, like trying to rescue somebody from a cult.
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Post by CID1990 »

Ibanez wrote:
CID1990 wrote:Clitz will love this one -

French is spot on

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/04/ ... l-witness/


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:clap: French nailed it. I never read NR, I may have to throw it into the rotation.
Wut?

It’s Bill Buckley’s old rag

Pretty much the flagship classic conservative outlet. Generally pretty negative towards Trump - but they’ll throw him a bone when he gets something right, too


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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Post by CID1990 »

Chizzang wrote:
CID1990 wrote:Clitz will love this one -

French is spot on

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/04/ ... l-witness/

The Church has been shoveling their moral high ground into this dumpster fire for 2 years now...
Proving that their faith in their book is bullsh!t - it's just a tool to be used against others
Proving that their morality is more posturing than any actual belief system

Proving by their own actions and words
that American Christianity is a actually just a well run money grab

:coffee:
Ugh dude

You wound me when you don’t read me- really

Support for Trump is absolutely consistent with conservative, Old Testament Christianity

Trump is Cyrus. It really IS that simple.

French is right that politics are as transactional for Christians as for any other advocacy group. But that has no relation to people’s faith... if you’re a bible thumping Oral Roberts type you have zero moral conflict with Trump being President. You might even believe he was on his way to hell before he took office.. but not now- he redeemed himself in the eyes of the dude upstairs.

No story could be MORE Christian


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Re: The Official

Post by Chizzang »

CID1990 wrote:
Chizzang wrote:

The Church has been shoveling their moral high ground into this dumpster fire for 2 years now...
Proving that their faith in their book is bullsh!t - it's just a tool to be used against others
Proving that their morality is more posturing than any actual belief system

Proving by their own actions and words
that American Christianity is a actually just a well run money grab

:coffee:
Ugh dude

You wound me when you don’t read me- really

Support for Trump is absolutely consistent with conservative, Old Testament Christianity

Trump is Cyrus. It really IS that simple.

French is right that politics are as transactional for Christians as for any other advocacy group. But that has no relation to people’s faith... if you’re a bible thumping Oral Roberts type you have zero moral conflict with Trump being President. You might even believe he was on his way to hell before he took office.. but not now- he redeemed himself in the eyes of the dude upstairs.

No story could be MORE Christian

I get that part... nothing could be more Christian than selling your soul for power
as long as it's like a fabled version of the same dishonorable trait
It's also an incredible flaw in the Cosmic Santa Claus Club

Again: Understood (Check)
it's super Christian to be hypocritical and smarmy as long as you get something back

My point still stands
It's a goat herding iron age train wreck of a religion due for a serious upgrade
and just because American moms and dads indoctrinated their kids into it doesn't mean I need to respect it

:coffee:
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A: The actual teachings of Jesus

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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Post by JohnStOnge »

AZGrizFan wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
Now, see, when you quote that one wonders why one thinks that means things are better now under Trump. It's saying that it's the best 1st quarter growth rate since the one that happened during Obama's second to last year. And if you look it up you find that the 1st quarter growth rate during Obama's second to last year was slightly higher than 3.2% at 3.3%.

So...like...the fact that it was the highest first quarter rate since it happened under Obama is supposed to make everybody thing "OH WOW! THINGS ARE REALLY A LOT BETTER NOW!"
You’re right, John. Because economic conditions in 2015 were EXACTLY like they are today. Obama achieved 3.3% in a zero rate environment after THREE massive QE’s. Trump achieved 3.2% in the face of NINE rate increases and the Fed unwinding their balance sheet, but you already knew that. You seriously need to just STFU when it comes to economic discussions.
You are really, really reaching now. Sure, there are all kinds of differences between what was going on during Obama and what has been going on during Trump. One of them is that Obama took over when an economic crisis was going on. We were in the midst of a severe recession. Trump took over when we were already in a well established economic recovery.

It's not to say either Obama or Trump caused anything. It's just that if you are just looking at what the economy has done over time it's not a situation where the economy was "bad" then Trump took over and now it's "good." It's just not. With respect to GDP the only change is that variation in quarterly GDP growth has decreased. Annual GDP growth, so far, has been consistent with what it's been during the now 10 year long expansion.
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Post by AZGrizFan »

JohnStOnge wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
You’re right, John. Because economic conditions in 2015 were EXACTLY like they are today. Obama achieved 3.3% in a zero rate environment after THREE massive QE’s. Trump achieved 3.2% in the face of NINE rate increases and the Fed unwinding their balance sheet, but you already knew that. You seriously need to just STFU when it comes to economic discussions.
You are really, really reaching now. Sure, there are all kinds of differences between what was going on during Obama and what has been going on during Trump. One of them is that Obama took over when an economic crisis was going on. We were in the midst of a severe recession. Trump took over when we were already in a well established economic recovery.

It's not to say either Obama or Trump caused anything. It's just that if you are just looking at what the economy has done over time it's not a situation where the economy was "bad" then Trump took over and now it's "good." It's just not. With respect to GDP the only change is that variation in quarterly GDP growth has decreased. Annual GDP growth, so far, has been consistent with what it's been during the now 10 year long expansion.
No, it’s a situation where the economy under Obama was easy, with the skids greased by ZERO percent rates and zero rate increases in 8 years. Now it’s hard, with the Fed unwinding their balance sheet and 9 rate increases in two years. And yes, it’s been a 10-year expansion in which during Obama’s ENTIRE 8 year presidency it was EASY. Now it’s not so easy. Comparing the two and saying Trump hasn’t accomplished anything just completely exposes your TDS.
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Post by AZGrizFan »

JohnStOnge wrote:In all seriousness about the GDP thing I've thought for a while that what we've seen is a decrease in the variability of quarterly GDP growth. I found a graph that really shows that. It's quarterly GDP growth for the past 10 years. So it's going back to the big recession around 2009 through the present. See below. You can see that during the Obama administration the "swings" were bigger. We had both higher and lower quarterly GDP growth than we've had so far during Trump's administration. You can also see that most of quarterly growth rates during Trump are actually below the trend line. It's not like the quarter to quarter variations tend to break "upward" during Trump to suggest that the overall central trend has gotten "better."

The overall central trend has not changed. There's no perceptable upswing in GDP associated with Trump taking office. Just a decrease in variability. The highs haven't been as high and the lows haven't been as low as they were during the Obama administration. You can generate the graph at https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp-growth.

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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Post by CID1990 »

Chizzang wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
Ugh dude

You wound me when you don’t read me- really

Support for Trump is absolutely consistent with conservative, Old Testament Christianity

Trump is Cyrus. It really IS that simple.

French is right that politics are as transactional for Christians as for any other advocacy group. But that has no relation to people’s faith... if you’re a bible thumping Oral Roberts type you have zero moral conflict with Trump being President. You might even believe he was on his way to hell before he took office.. but not now- he redeemed himself in the eyes of the dude upstairs.

No story could be MORE Christian

I get that part... nothing could be more Christian than selling your soul for power
as long as it's like a fabled version of the same dishonorable trait
It's also an incredible flaw in the Cosmic Santa Claus Club

Again: Understood (Check)
it's super Christian to be hypocritical and smarmy as long as you get something back

My point still stands
It's a goat herding iron age train wreck of a religion due for a serious upgrade
and just because American moms and dads indoctrinated their kids into it doesn't mean I need to respect it

:coffee:
I’m not refuting your point

You just seem to be confused - that somehow people who follow organized religions are somehow supposed to be principled and consistent in the application of their iron age superstitions




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Re: The Official

Post by Chizzang »

CID1990 wrote:
Chizzang wrote:

I get that part... nothing could be more Christian than selling your soul for power
as long as it's like a fabled version of the same dishonorable trait
It's also an incredible flaw in the Cosmic Santa Claus Club

Again: Understood (Check)
it's super Christian to be hypocritical and smarmy as long as you get something back

My point still stands
It's a goat herding iron age train wreck of a religion due for a serious upgrade
and just because American moms and dads indoctrinated their kids into it doesn't mean I need to respect it

:coffee:
I’m not refuting your point

You just seem to be confused - that somehow people who follow organized religions are somehow supposed to be principled and consistent in the application of their iron age superstitions
I would actually argue that faithful Christians are more likely to be less principled
precisely because of their poorly constructed book and poorly rendered fables
fraught with exceptions and excuses

:coffee:
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Re: The Official

Post by kalm »

CID1990 wrote:
Chizzang wrote:

I get that part... nothing could be more Christian than selling your soul for power
as long as it's like a fabled version of the same dishonorable trait
It's also an incredible flaw in the Cosmic Santa Claus Club

Again: Understood (Check)
it's super Christian to be hypocritical and smarmy as long as you get something back

My point still stands
It's a goat herding iron age train wreck of a religion due for a serious upgrade
and just because American moms and dads indoctrinated their kids into it doesn't mean I need to respect it

:coffee:
I’m not refuting your point

You just seem to be confused - that somehow people who follow organized religions are somehow supposed to be principled and consistent in the application of their iron age superstitions




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They aren’t supposed to be? :?

I’ll admit to be confused as well.
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Re: RE: Re: The Official

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
I’m not refuting your point

You just seem to be confused - that somehow people who follow organized religions are somehow supposed to be principled and consistent in the application of their iron age superstitions




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They aren’t supposed to be? :?

I’ll admit to be confused as well.
It's pretty simple. Christians don't like to be called hypocrites for supporting lying, philandering scumbags and socialists don't like to be called hypocrites for being millionaires. It's a do as I say not as I do kind of thing.

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Re: RE: Re: The Official

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote:
kalm wrote:
They aren’t supposed to be? :?

I’ll admit to be confused as well.
It's pretty simple. Christians don't like to be called hypocrites for supporting lying, philandering scumbags and socialists don't like to be called hypocrites for being millionaires. It's a do as I say not as I do kind of thing.

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How many American socialists are opposed to millionaires?
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Post by JohnStOnge »

AZGrizFan wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
You are really, really reaching now. Sure, there are all kinds of differences between what was going on during Obama and what has been going on during Trump. One of them is that Obama took over when an economic crisis was going on. We were in the midst of a severe recession. Trump took over when we were already in a well established economic recovery.

It's not to say either Obama or Trump caused anything. It's just that if you are just looking at what the economy has done over time it's not a situation where the economy was "bad" then Trump took over and now it's "good." It's just not. With respect to GDP the only change is that variation in quarterly GDP growth has decreased. Annual GDP growth, so far, has been consistent with what it's been during the now 10 year long expansion.
No, it’s a situation where the economy under Obama was easy, with the skids greased by ZERO percent rates and zero rate increases in 8 years. Now it’s hard, with the Fed unwinding their balance sheet and 9 rate increases in two years. And yes, it’s been a 10-year expansion in which during Obama’s ENTIRE 8 year presidency it was EASY. Now it’s not so easy. Comparing the two and saying Trump hasn’t accomplished anything just completely exposes your TDS.
What's being exposed is you trying to find SOME way to say things have significantly changed under Trump. Data are data. There are always things going on. But your thing is to try to find SOME way to say that, even though there been any "significant" changes in measures such as the trend in unemployment and real GDP there is evidence that Trump REALLY improved things. No way. The quantitative evidence just isn't there.

It's just amazing to me that you say things were EASY for a President coming in when we were in the midst of a severe recession but it was HARD for a President coming in when we were in the 10th year of an economic expansion. Just step back and contemplate the absurdity of that position. And it IS absurd.
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Post by kalm »

JohnStOnge wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
No, it’s a situation where the economy under Obama was easy, with the skids greased by ZERO percent rates and zero rate increases in 8 years. Now it’s hard, with the Fed unwinding their balance sheet and 9 rate increases in two years. And yes, it’s been a 10-year expansion in which during Obama’s ENTIRE 8 year presidency it was EASY. Now it’s not so easy. Comparing the two and saying Trump hasn’t accomplished anything just completely exposes your TDS.
What's being exposed is you trying to find SOME way to say things have significantly changed under Trump. Data are data. There are always things going on. But your thing is to try to find SOME way to say that, even though there been any "significant" changes in measures such as the trend in unemployment and real GDP there is evidence that Trump REALLY improved things. No way. The quantitative evidence just isn't there.

It's just amazing to me that you say things were EASY for a President coming in when we were in the midst of a severe recession but it was HARD for a President coming in when we were in the 10th year of an economic expansion. Just step back and contemplate the absurdity of that position. And it IS absurd.
Not all of it. Nowhere to go but up....Cyclical economics....

The inconsistency lies in the belief that if you just deregulate and cut taxes enough, you will go up in perpetuity and take care of debt.
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Re: RE: Re: The Official

Post by ALPHAGRIZ1 »

kalm wrote:
UNI88 wrote:It's pretty simple. Christians don't like to be called hypocrites for supporting lying, philandering scumbags and socialists don't like to be called hypocrites for being millionaires. It's a do as I say not as I do kind of thing.

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How many American socialists are opposed to millionaires?
9?
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: The Official

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote:
UNI88 wrote:It's pretty simple. Christians don't like to be called hypocrites for supporting lying, philandering scumbags and socialists don't like to be called hypocrites for being millionaires. It's a do as I say not as I do kind of thing.

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How many American socialists are opposed to millionaires?
All of them if you interpret the desire to redistribute income and provide Cadillac social services via high taxes as opposition.

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: The Official

Post by Chizzang »

UNI88 wrote:
kalm wrote:
How many American socialists are opposed to millionaires?
All of them if you interpret the desire to redistribute income and provide Cadillac social services via high taxes as opposition.
I don't know what the answer is...
but I've never heard one billionaire (or millionaire for that matter)
ever make the claim that high taxes kept them from becoming or staying a billionaire

:geek:

not one..
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: The Official

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote:
kalm wrote:
How many American socialists are opposed to millionaires?
All of them if you interpret the desire to redistribute income and provide Cadillac social services via high taxes as opposition.

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Who’s advocating for Cadillac social services? Define Cadillac.

As redistribution, at least some of those pesky middle class deductions were eliminated. :thumb:
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: The Official

Post by kalm »

Chizzang wrote:
UNI88 wrote:
All of them if you interpret the desire to redistribute income and provide Cadillac social services via high taxes as opposition.
I don't know what the answer is...
but I've never heard one billionaire (or millionaire for that matter)
ever make the claim that high taxes kept them from becoming or staying a billionaire

:geek:

not one..
I know that Northern Europe doesn’t have a single millionaire.

Fact.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: The Official

Post by Chizzang »

kalm wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
I don't know what the answer is...
but I've never heard one billionaire (or millionaire for that matter)
ever make the claim that high taxes kept them from becoming or staying a billionaire

:geek:

not one..
I know that Northern Europe doesn’t have a single millionaire.

Fact.
Look I'm NOT for higher taxes...
But it's not the problem we're led to believe it is

BTW: reducing taxes doesn't deliver anything even close to what we're promised will happen either

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: The Official

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote:
UNI88 wrote:
All of them if you interpret the desire to redistribute income and provide Cadillac social services via high taxes as opposition.

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Who’s advocating for Cadillac social services? Define Cadillac.

As redistribution, at least some of those pesky middle class deductions were eliminated. :thumb:
Define socialist. A true socialist (not democratic socialist) is opposed to the accumulation of wealth through private sector initiatives. They would want to tax such wealth to the point where they can redistribute it (after taking out the government's cut and using it to buy themselves a lakeside dacha in Vermont).

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kalm
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: The Official

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote:
kalm wrote:
Who’s advocating for Cadillac social services? Define Cadillac.

As redistribution, at least some of those pesky middle class deductions were eliminated. :thumb:
Define socialist. A true socialist (not democratic socialist) is opposed to the accumulation of wealth through private sector initiatives. They would want to tax such wealth to the point where they can redistribute it (after taking out the government's cut and using it to buy themselves a lakeside dacha in Vermont).

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Well I’m pretty sure Bernie isn’t a true socialist but that’s the beauty of our system. You can neither be a true socialist or true capitalist where you accept competition and democracy crushing monopolies...waiting for the market to take them down. :geek:
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