The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby kalm » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:09 am

HI54UNI wrote:
kalm wrote:
Whoopie anecdotal!

I have a relative about to declare bankruptcy with a 6 figure income due to healthcare expenses. I have friends with similar incomes (which is a ton in the Spokane economy), living paycheck to paycheck.

My parents 30 years ago were retiring in their 50’s, traveling the world, and owned a vacation home on teachers and coaching salaries.

I knew people who worked their way through college. :rofl:

(Not all Trumps fault...and I’m sure he’s working on it)


No health insurance?


She has it but it’s not great coverage and a massive deductible. There are always other factors but the medical bills and drug expenses tipped her over the top.
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby AZGrizFan » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:19 am

Ibanez wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
Word of advice: tell that relative to file a MEDICAL bankruptcy. And yes, its a thing. Will be looked at differently than if he just says “**** it” and throws in everything.

I didn't know that existed. Does it still destroy your credit?


Yes, but they're looked at differently by creditors than a full on Chapter 7. You only write off the medical bills associated with some catastrophic procedure, but don't lump in the credit cards, cars, etc., etc.

When I was a mortgage loan officer back in the day for B of A, I wrote approximately 1200 mortgage loans in 2 years...58 of those were filed by people who had a BK on their credit report. ONE of those 58 got approved...and it was a guy with a medical BK, who went into the doc for a routine exam and ended up having a heart attack on the exam table....they had to open him up and do an emergency triple bypass and the dude didn't have health insurance.
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby AZGrizFan » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:20 am

kalm wrote:
HI54UNI wrote:
No health insurance?


She has it but it’s not great coverage and a massive deductible. There are always other factors but the medical bills and drug expenses tipped her over the top.


Six figure income :suspicious: :suspicious: :suspicious:
"Massive" deductible??? :suspicious: :suspicious: :suspicious:

Sounds like somebody is living the American dream (as in, "beyond their means"....) :coffee: :coffee:
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby kalm » Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:11 pm

AZGrizFan wrote:
kalm wrote:
She has it but it’s not great coverage and a massive deductible. There are always other factors but the medical bills and drug expenses tipped her over the top.


Six figure income :suspicious: :suspicious: :suspicious:
"Massive" deductible??? :suspicious: :suspicious: :suspicious:

Sounds like somebody is living the American dream (as in, "beyond their means"....) :coffee: :coffee:


No doubt, but most Americans at the income level and below are closer to the edge than many people think. :nod:
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby AZGrizFan » Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:26 pm

kalm wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
Six figure income :suspicious: :suspicious: :suspicious:
"Massive" deductible??? :suspicious: :suspicious: :suspicious:

Sounds like somebody is living the American dream (as in, "beyond their means"....) :coffee: :coffee:


No doubt, but most Americans at the income level and below are closer to the edge than many people think. :nod:

:ohno: :ohno: :ohno:
Sadly, you are correct. And by their own volition....
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby UNI88 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:25 pm

AZGrizFan wrote:
kalm wrote:
No doubt, but most Americans at the income level and below are closer to the edge than many people think. :nod:

:ohno: :ohno: :ohno:
Sadly, you are correct. And by their own volition....


True.

What qualifies as a massive deductible? My family routinely carried a $5k deductible but we did it because we could cover it in an emergency and our premiums were low enough to more than pay the difference between that and a lower deductible. We saved money year to year.

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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby Skjellyfetti » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:32 pm

Not sure it's the case in kalm's realative's case... but, annual/lifetime maximums can be a backbreaker at no fault of your own.
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Mueller is going to take a beating on the left before this business is over

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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby AZGrizFan » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:41 am

Skjellyfetti wrote:Not sure it's the case in kalm's realative's case... but, annual/lifetime maximums can be a backbreaker at no fault of your own.


That's true. And in today's world, it doesn't have to be cancer or some other long-term chronic thing...My BIL just had a heart transplant...he spent four weeks in the ICU at UW Medical Center (figure about $10k/day?) and then has to stay IN Seattle for another 3 months and go back every day to the hospital. I can't even imagine what the final tally will be when he's done....and he'll never really be "done". He will take up to 60 pills a day now for the rest of his life. And he's only 61. :ohno: :ohno: :ohno:
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby HI54UNI » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:19 am

I thought Obamacare prohibited lifetime limits and maximums?
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby Skjellyfetti » Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:24 am

Kinda.

There are plenty of exceptions. Obamacare improved things... but, it's not perfect. It can definitely be improved further. :nod:
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Cid1990 wrote:It is going to be a sad day for a lot of people when all that comes of all of this is Flynn getting whacked.

Mueller is going to take a beating on the left before this business is over

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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby AZGrizFan » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:36 pm

Skjellyfetti wrote:Kinda.

There are plenty of exceptions. Obamacare improved things... but, it's not perfect. It can definitely be improved further. :nod:


It didn't improve things. But keep flailing. :thumb:
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby SDHornet » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:15 pm

kalm wrote:
SDHornet wrote:Yeah curious what Trump could do other than how he has played it already. Maybe kalm is outraged about the kids in cages narrative...I mean never mind that that started before Trump took office but whatevs yo!


Umm....start jailing illegal employers, build the wall, bomb Mexico.

:lol: :clap:

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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby SDHornet » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:23 pm

AZGrizFan wrote:
Skjellyfetti wrote:Kinda.

There are plenty of exceptions. Obamacare improved things... but, it's not perfect. It can definitely be improved further. :nod:


It didn't improve things. But keep flailing. :thumb:

Next thing you know he's going to be telling us that Trump colluded with the Russ...oh wait. :lol:

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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby SDHornet » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:24 pm

AZGrizFan wrote:
kalm wrote:
She has it but it’s not great coverage and a massive deductible. There are always other factors but the medical bills and drug expenses tipped her over the top.


Six figure income :suspicious: :suspicious: :suspicious:
"Massive" deductible??? :suspicious: :suspicious: :suspicious:

Sounds like somebody is living the American dream (as in, "beyond their means"....) :coffee: :coffee:

My thoughts exactly. Spending less than you make is not that fvcking complicated.

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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby css75 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:57 pm

Skjellyfetti wrote:Kinda.

There are plenty of exceptions. Obamacare improved things... but, it's not perfect. It can definitely be improved further. :nod:



Actually it sucks, but keep on trying.


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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby kalm » Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:08 am

SDHornet wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
Six figure income :suspicious: :suspicious: :suspicious:
"Massive" deductible??? :suspicious: :suspicious: :suspicious:

Sounds like somebody is living the American dream (as in, "beyond their means"....) :coffee: :coffee:

My thoughts exactly. Spending less than you make is not that fvcking complicated.


You’re correct in a way but if it were only that simple. Not that she doesn’t own the situation but there are kids involved also with health issues, parenting agreements that required living in a high rent area, absentee ex’s, mental health issues, etc. And this is one of the smartest and at one point most successful people I know.

And she’s not alone. There were many truly smart people who went down or barely held on after the Great Recession.

Point being, as I said earlier, the financial cliff edge is way closer than we think. It’s the American way. :nod:
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby JohnStOnge » Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:49 pm

Here is the best article I've seen so far on Trump's regulatory reform related to environmental regulation:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... backs.html

There are a lot of things in there but the authors did a nice short summary of each of them. Doesn't take long to scroll through and get an idea.
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby SDHornet » Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:40 pm

kalm wrote:
SDHornet wrote:My thoughts exactly. Spending less than you make is not that fvcking complicated.


You’re correct in a way but if it were only that simple. Not that she doesn’t own the situation but there are kids involved also with health issues, parenting agreements that required living in a high rent area, absentee ex’s, mental health issues, etc. And this is one of the smartest and at one point most successful people I know.

And she’s not alone. There were many truly smart people who went down or barely held on after the Great Recession.

Point being, as I said earlier, the financial cliff edge is way closer than we think. It’s the American way. :nod:

Assuming the health issue is hereditary, pretty much all of what you listed can be attributed to poor/questionable life decisions. For the most part, people living on the edge of financial ruin have only themselves to blame.

I also put a lot of blame on the education system for failing to prep people with basic life skills. I never learned budgeting in school, my dad taught me all I needed to know about it which is spend less than you earn. It's not that complicated or hard.

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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby JohnStOnge » Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:09 pm

AZGrizFan wrote:
Skjellyfetti wrote:Kinda.

There are plenty of exceptions. Obamacare improved things... but, it's not perfect. It can definitely be improved further. :nod:


It didn't improve things. But keep flailing. :thumb:


I don't know if it did or not but many people would say that it did simply because it requires insurance companies to cover people with pre-existing conditions and allows parents to keep their kids on their health insurance until they are 26.

Also the rate of increase in cost slowed. See https://www.statnews.com/2019/03/22/aff ... ols-costs/ for one analysis.

One thing ACA opponents do is say that health care costs have increased since it went into effect. And they have. But they have increased at a lower rate than what was projected for a scenario in which there was no ACA.
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby kalm » Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:38 am

SDHornet wrote:
kalm wrote:
You’re correct in a way but if it were only that simple. Not that she doesn’t own the situation but there are kids involved also with health issues, parenting agreements that required living in a high rent area, absentee ex’s, mental health issues, etc. And this is one of the smartest and at one point most successful people I know.

And she’s not alone. There were many truly smart people who went down or barely held on after the Great Recession.

Point being, as I said earlier, the financial cliff edge is way closer than we think. It’s the American way. :nod:

Assuming the health issue is hereditary, pretty much all of what you listed can be attributed to poor/questionable life decisions. For the most part, people living on the edge of financial ruin have only themselves to blame.

I also put a lot of blame on the education system for failing to prep people with basic life skills. I never learned budgeting in school, my dad taught me all I needed to know about it which is spend less than you earn. It's not that complicated or hard.


Sure it can, and like I said, she owns it. I won’t go into further details but modern life is far more complicated than you’re letting on and even those with immense success are much closer to the edge than simply blowing it off as poor life decisions. That’s a judgemental cop out and there but for the grace of god....

The humble masses are obviously in even greater jeopardy.

And none of that is to say we don’t have it easy here in America compared to life elsewhere or that that we don’t deserve it. I just happen to think a little compassion and gratitude are decent things.
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby Ibanez » Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:35 am

So, what do you all think about Trump inviting foreign government to spy on candidates? :coffee:


Contrary to what Trump thinks and says, Christopher Steele wasn't a foreign government or acting as an agent of one. The dossier was the work product of a DC based research firm hired by a conservative media group then the Democrats. Accepting opposition research from a company you hired is acceptable. Trump talking to world leaders, as part of his job is one thing.

Accepting it from a foreign government is another. Not reporting it, to me, is unethical. You think Russia is going to offer damaging information and not expect something in return?

I don't know...just seems highly unethical. Our founding fathers warned us against it - but that doesn't matter since neither party truly gives :twocents: about what our founders thought.
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby AZGrizFan » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:27 am

kalm wrote:
SDHornet wrote:Assuming the health issue is hereditary, pretty much all of what you listed can be attributed to poor/questionable life decisions. For the most part, people living on the edge of financial ruin have only themselves to blame.

I also put a lot of blame on the education system for failing to prep people with basic life skills. I never learned budgeting in school, my dad taught me all I needed to know about it which is spend less than you earn. It's not that complicated or hard.


Sure it can, and like I said, she owns it. I won’t go into further details but modern life is far more complicated than you’re letting on and even those with immense success are much closer to the edge than simply blowing it off as poor life decisions. That’s a judgemental cop out and there but for the grace of god....

The humble masses are obviously in even greater jeopardy.

And none of that is to say we don’t have it easy here in America compared to life elsewhere or that that we don’t deserve it. I just happen to think a little compassion and gratitude are decent things.


Yes, compassion and gratitude are decent things, but they have nothing to do with one's life choices. America isn't "on the edge". We're not all teetering on collapse. You're buying into hype from a certain political party.
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby GannonFan » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:50 am

Ibanez wrote:So, what do you all think about Trump inviting foreign government to spy on candidates? :coffee:


Contrary to what Trump thinks and says, Christopher Steele wasn't a foreign government or acting as an agent of one. The dossier was the work product of a DC based research firm hired by a conservative media group then the Democrats. Accepting opposition research from a company you hired is acceptable. Trump talking to world leaders, as part of his job is one thing.

Accepting it from a foreign government is another. Not reporting it, to me, is unethical. You think Russia is going to offer damaging information and not expect something in return?

I don't know...just seems highly unethical. Our founding fathers warned us against it - but that doesn't matter since neither party truly gives :twocents: about what our founders thought.


It's what Trump always does - he acts like a buffoon. It's not a schtick, it's just who he is.

As for the Christopher Steele thing, let's be honest, even though he wasn't a foreign government or agent, everyone knew where he was getting his information. He was hired because of his extensive contacts in Russia and as we all know now from this past Red Scare, any Russian is a de facto agent of the Russian government. If Steele was talking to anybody from Russia, he was basically talking to the Russian government (unless we want to back off of that "every Russian is a spy of the Russian government" thing, and that changes a lot of the past 2-3 years).

Almost everything Trump does is unethical, but he also lacks the ability, unlike his predecessors, of being able to cloak his unethical behavior with fancy sounding speeches and tried and true political talk that makes the unethical behavior sound okay. He can't sugarcoat anything. Of course he never should say out loud that he'll listen to foreign agents/governments regarding damaging information, but the reality is we've probably always done that. What we do with that is something else entirely. I don't specifically recall the Founding Fathers covering events like this - I don't think their imagination could fathom where we are right now.
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby kalm » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:52 am

AZGrizFan wrote:
kalm wrote:
Sure it can, and like I said, she owns it. I won’t go into further details but modern life is far more complicated than you’re letting on and even those with immense success are much closer to the edge than simply blowing it off as poor life decisions. That’s a judgemental cop out and there but for the grace of god....

The humble masses are obviously in even greater jeopardy.

And none of that is to say we don’t have it easy here in America compared to life elsewhere or that that we don’t deserve it. I just happen to think a little compassion and gratitude are decent things.


Yes, compassion and gratitude are decent things, but they have nothing to do with one's life choices. America isn't "on the edge". We're not all teetering on collapse. You're buying into hype from a certain political party.


I never said "America is on the edge" or that we're "teetering on collapse", Sparky. We're just having a discussion. My god are you guys triggered. :lol:
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby GannonFan » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:52 am

AZGrizFan wrote:
kalm wrote:
Sure it can, and like I said, she owns it. I won’t go into further details but modern life is far more complicated than you’re letting on and even those with immense success are much closer to the edge than simply blowing it off as poor life decisions. That’s a judgemental cop out and there but for the grace of god....

The humble masses are obviously in even greater jeopardy.

And none of that is to say we don’t have it easy here in America compared to life elsewhere or that that we don’t deserve it. I just happen to think a little compassion and gratitude are decent things.


Yes, compassion and gratitude are decent things, but they have nothing to do with one's life choices. America isn't "on the edge". We're not all teetering on collapse. You're buying into hype from a certain political party.


Indeed. When you lead with the idea, as even the former President said, that the Republic will cease to be if so and so is elected, it leaves you very little room to operate once that person does indeed become elected. It ain't so bad here in America, despite people desperately wanting it to be so.
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