Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby css75 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:47 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:
SDHornet wrote:Which brings me back to my question that has yet to be answered:

How do you obstruct entrapment?

I guess I'll keep waiting for an answer. :coffee:


It was not entrapment. All Trump had to do was to just take a "hands off" approach. Instead, he did things to obstruct the investigation.



How can you obstruct an imaginary crime?


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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby kalm » Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:05 pm

css75 wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
It was not entrapment. All Trump had to do was to just take a "hands off" approach. Instead, he did things to obstruct the investigation.



Why would you obstruct an imaginary crime?


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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby CID1990 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:37 pm

kalm wrote:
css75 wrote:

Why would you obstruct an imaginary crime?


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FYP.


Why wouldn’t a lefty already know the answer?

Doesn’t Trump have an oversized ego?


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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby Chizzang » Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:57 am

css75 wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
It was not entrapment. All Trump had to do was to just take a "hands off" approach. Instead, he did things to obstruct the investigation.



How can you obstruct an imaginary crime?



Somebody hasn't read the report..

:lol:

There are 10 instances of obvious obstruction
So indeed... Why would Trump say: "I'm fucked" and then proceed to obstruct..?

Can't indict a sitting Prez
but there were 10 indictable examples of this: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1001

Remember OJ Simpson
it's only circumstantial evidence
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby SDHornet » Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:30 pm

CID1990 wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
It was not entrapment. All Trump had to do was to just take a "hands off" approach. Instead, he did things to obstruct the investigation.



WHOOOSH


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Looks like I'll keep waiting. :lol: :dunce:

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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby houndawg » Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:26 am

CID1990 wrote:
SeattleGriz wrote:
Not keeping his dates correct.

Although his new attorney is requesting a ton of supposed Brady material, while claiming the prosecutors held it back on purpose.

Looking to get the case tossed.


So he’s charged with lying.

curious..

How to be a bit defensive on Sztzrtrock but not Flynn - I wonder how that works exactly




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Lock them all up in the same cell block, FBI on one side, Donald's Mob on the other side, so they can see each other and discuss the events that lead them all to the same location... :rofl:
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby JohnStOnge » Sun Sep 29, 2019 5:55 pm

css75 wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
It was not entrapment. All Trump had to do was to just take a "hands off" approach. Instead, he did things to obstruct the investigation.



How can you obstruct an imaginary crime?


The fact that you obstruct decreases the chance that the prosecutor will find sufficient evidence to convict for the underlying crime.

When one reads the Mueller report it becomes clear that the investigation had a problem due to obstruction. They made it very clear that their conclusion with respect to not finding sufficient evidence should not be construed as "it didn't happen." Here are the final few paragraph's of the Executive Summary of the

The investigation did not always yield admissible information or testimony, or a complete
picture of the activities undertaken by subjects of the investigation. Some individuals invoked
their Fifth Amendment right against compelled self-incrimination and were not, in the Office's
judgment, appropriate candidates for grants of immunity. The Office limited its pursuit of other
witnesses and information-such as information known to attorneys or individuals claiming to be
members of the media-in light of internal Department of Justice policies. See, e.g. , Justice
Manual§§ 9-13.400, 13.410. Some of the information obtained via court process, moreover, was
presumptively covered by legal privilege and was screened from investigators by a filter ( or
"taint") team. Even when individuals testified or agreed to be interviewed, they sometimes
provided information that was false or incomplete, leading to some of the false-statements charges
described above. And the Office faced practical limits on its ability to access relevant evidence as
well-numerous witnesses and subjects lived abroad, and documents were held outside the United
States.

Further, the Office learned that some of the individuals we interviewed or whose conduct
we investigated-including some associated with the Trump Campaign---deleted relevant
communications or communicated during the relevant period using applications that feature
encryption or that do not provide for long-term retention of data or communications records. In
such cases, the Office was not able to corroborate witness statements through comparison to
contemporaneous communications or fully question witnesses about statements that appeared
inconsistent with other known facts.

Accordingly, while this report embodies factual and legal determinations that the Office
believes to be accurate and complete to the greatest extent possible, given these identified gaps,
the Office cannot rule out the possibility that the unavailable information would shed additional
light on (or cast in a new light) the events described in the report.


Obstruction can lead to a situation in which there is not sufficient evidence to document the underlying crime. That's why it matters.
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby SDHornet » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:23 pm


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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby CID1990 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:31 am

JohnStOnge wrote:
css75 wrote:

How can you obstruct an imaginary crime?


The fact that you obstruct decreases the chance that the prosecutor will find sufficient evidence to convict for the underlying crime.

When one reads the Mueller report it becomes clear that the investigation had a problem due to obstruction. They made it very clear that their conclusion with respect to not finding sufficient evidence should not be construed as "it didn't happen." Here are the final few paragraph's of the Executive Summary of the

The investigation did not always yield admissible information or testimony, or a complete
picture of the activities undertaken by subjects of the investigation. Some individuals invoked
their Fifth Amendment right against compelled self-incrimination and were not, in the Office's
judgment, appropriate candidates for grants of immunity. The Office limited its pursuit of other
witnesses and information-such as information known to attorneys or individuals claiming to be
members of the media-in light of internal Department of Justice policies. See, e.g. , Justice
Manual§§ 9-13.400, 13.410. Some of the information obtained via court process, moreover, was
presumptively covered by legal privilege and was screened from investigators by a filter ( or
"taint") team. Even when individuals testified or agreed to be interviewed, they sometimes
provided information that was false or incomplete, leading to some of the false-statements charges
described above. And the Office faced practical limits on its ability to access relevant evidence as
well-numerous witnesses and subjects lived abroad, and documents were held outside the United
States.

Further, the Office learned that some of the individuals we interviewed or whose conduct
we investigated-including some associated with the Trump Campaign---deleted relevant
communications or communicated during the relevant period using applications that feature
encryption or that do not provide for long-term retention of data or communications records. In
such cases, the Office was not able to corroborate witness statements through comparison to
contemporaneous communications or fully question witnesses about statements that appeared
inconsistent with other known facts.

Accordingly, while this report embodies factual and legal determinations that the Office
believes to be accurate and complete to the greatest extent possible, given these identified gaps,
the Office cannot rule out the possibility that the unavailable information would shed additional
light on (or cast in a new light) the events described in the report.


Obstruction can lead to a situation in which there is not sufficient evidence to document the underlying crime. That's why it matters.


So which example here led to a lack of evidence?

The parts where Trump wondered aloud if no-one could rid him of this worrisome priest, or where he asked St. James d’Comey to lay off of Flynn?


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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby SeattleGriz » Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:52 am

Hmm. Heaven forbid Team Meuller abused the two hop rule.

We all know what was going on here. Political surveillance. This is the second ruling in two years on these 702 abuses.

Thanks Obama.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/fbis-use-o ... 1570559882
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby houndawg » Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:11 am

css75 wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
It was not entrapment. All Trump had to do was to just take a "hands off" approach. Instead, he did things to obstruct the investigation.



How can you obstruct an imaginary crime?


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:lol: ..you know he's dirty

He'd act completely different if he weren't. :coffee:
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby Skjellyfetti » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:03 am

SeattleGriz wrote:Hmm. Heaven forbid Team Meuller abused the two hop rule.

We all know what was going on here. Political surveillance. This is the second ruling in two years on these 702 abuses.

Thanks Obama.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/fbis-use-o ... 1570559882


Mueller isn't mentioned in the article.

Trump signing the 6 year renewal of the law is, though. Not sure why you say Thanks Obama. It was written under Bush. Renewed by Obama and Trump. It's as much Obama's fault as Bush and Trump's.
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Cid1990 wrote:It is going to be a sad day for a lot of people when all that comes of all of this is Flynn getting whacked.

Mueller is going to take a beating on the left before this business is over

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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby css75 » Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:42 pm

And the collusion is. ..........?

Let this stupid thread die.


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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby SeattleGriz » Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:09 pm

Skjellyfetti wrote:
SeattleGriz wrote:Hmm. Heaven forbid Team Meuller abused the two hop rule.

We all know what was going on here. Political surveillance. This is the second ruling in two years on these 702 abuses.

Thanks Obama.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/fbis-use-o ... 1570559882


Mueller isn't mentioned in the article.

Trump signing the 6 year renewal of the law is, though. Not sure why you say Thanks Obama. It was written under Bush. Renewed by Obama and Trump. It's as much Obama's fault as Bush and Trump's.


The violations that Boasberg is identifying (March 2017 through March 2018) must also include FISA database searches conducted by Mueller’s FBI team. It is all within the same system of electronic surveillance. The pattern, frequency and specifics of the Boasberg report are identical to the 2017 Rosemary Collyer report. Same violations. Same processes
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby Skjellyfetti » Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:46 am

You see that in the article? :suspicious:

Does WSJ give you a Red Hat version based on your browsing history?


Spoiler: show
Looks like it's from the conservative treehouse. Don't be ashamed SeattleGruz... you can still link to your quote. We won't judge you
"The unmasking thing was all created by Devin Nunes"
- Richard Burr, (R-NC)

Cid1990 wrote:It is going to be a sad day for a lot of people when all that comes of all of this is Flynn getting whacked.

Mueller is going to take a beating on the left before this business is over

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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby SeattleGriz » Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:56 am

Skjellyfetti wrote:You see that in the article? :suspicious:

Does WSJ give you a Red Hat version based on your browsing history?


Spoiler: show
Looks like it's from the conservative treehouse. Don't be ashamed SeattleGruz... you can still link to your quote. We won't judge you


Hardly ashamed, just didn't finish my post.

I've mentioned I follow this site quite a few times, as the guy seems fairly level headed for a blogger, and one of the few that actually has written about the 702 searches.

You know what else? He's been far more correct than the Russia collusion side.

Here's the link.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/20 ... veillance/
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby SeattleGriz » Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:53 pm

Here you go Smelly. Another blogger.

While I know it is a long thread, I did make mention of not using mainstream information to follow this whole Russia collusion.

Former FBI gives us the lay of the land in regards to Flynn.

https://meaninginhistory.blogspot.com/2 ... e.html?m=1
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