Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby Ivytalk » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:09 pm

Ibanez wrote:
GannonFan wrote:
But think of the wrench this throws into the campaign finance control crowd. If all you have to do to swing an election is spend $13k on poll rigging and another small amount on targeted Facebook adverstisements, then who cares about the millions of dollars campaigns spend on all the other stuff that apparently doesn't even matter.


Good point. The 2016 election cost about $6B.


That money could've been used on something better.

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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby Ibanez » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:05 pm

Ivytalk wrote:
Ibanez wrote:
Good point. The 2016 election cost about $6B.


That money could've been used on something better.

Heck, if we had public financing of all federal elections, the lobbyist problem would vanish overnight, and all of us could afford a house in Kalorama! — Pollyanna

Heck!!




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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby HI54UNI » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:56 pm

Ivytalk wrote:
Ibanez wrote:
Good point. The 2016 election cost about $6B.


That money could've been used on something better.

Heck, if we had public financing of all federal elections, the lobbyist problem would vanish overnight, and all of us could afford a house in Kalorama! — Pollyanna


Did Gannonfan hack your account?
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby Ivytalk » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:59 pm

HI54UNI wrote:
Ivytalk wrote:Heck, if we had public financing of all federal elections, the lobbyist problem would vanish overnight, and all of us could afford a house in Kalorama! — Pollyanna


Did Gannonfan hack your account?

Heck, no! :mrgreen:
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby SDHornet » Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:34 pm

Ibanez wrote:
GannonFan wrote:
But think of the wrench this throws into the campaign finance control crowd. If all you have to do to swing an election is spend $13k on poll rigging and another small amount on targeted Facebook adverstisements, then who cares about the millions of dollars campaigns spend on all the other stuff that apparently doesn't even matter.


Good point. The 2016 election cost about $6B.


That money could've been used on something better.

Like hookers and blow.

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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby SDHornet » Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:43 pm

Testimony last year before a House task force investigating the Trump-Russia affair confirmed that top Justice Department officials knew about the Trump dossier earlier than first thought, and that among those who knew was Andrew Weissmann, who went on to become the top deputy of special counsel Robert Mueller.


The Ohr testimony suggests that not only did top FBI officials know about the dossier, but top Justice Department officials did, too. And two of them, Weissmann and Ahmad, went on to work for Mueller.


"So you specifically told the bureau that the information you were passing on came from someone who was employed by the DNC, albeit in a somewhat triangulated way?" asked Gowdy.

"I don't believe I used — I didn't know they were employed by the DNC," Ohr answered. "But I certainly said yes, that — that they were working for — you know, they were somehow working, associated with the Clinton campaign. And I also told the FBI that my wife worked for Fusion GPS, or was a contractor for Fusion GPS."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... &ocid=iehp

So the FBI and DOJ knew the dossier was fake and about its shady origins and still used it in the FISA warrant application to spy on the Trump campaign. But no Deep State, right jellybelly?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby Pwns » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:12 am

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/17/politics ... index.html

Looks like the media might be falling for Buzzfeed's tricks again. Still no independent corroboration yet.
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby Skjellyfetti » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:24 am

Yeah, would also like to see some corroboration on that.


Will say, though... those two BuzzFeed guys do seem to have some sources involved in the SDNY investigation.

They broke the Moscow Trump Tower story in May 2018... months before it was confirmed via court filings.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/an ... r-campaign

SDNY has interviewed Trump Org folks. It doesn't seem Mueller and Co. have done so yet. So, I think the sourcing is out of SDNY or FBI field office there. And, it's likely the same sources that have proven to be right before.
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby mainejeff » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:33 am

#LockHimUp.
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby Ibanez » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:50 am

Skjellyfetti wrote:Yeah, would also like to see some corroboration on that.


Will say, though... those two BuzzFeed guys do seem to have some sources involved in the SDNY investigation.

They broke the Moscow Trump Tower story in May 2018... months before it was confirmed via court filings.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/an ... r-campaign

SDNY has interviewed Trump Org folks. It doesn't seem Mueller and Co. have done so yet. So, I think the sourcing is out of SDNY or FBI field office there. And, it's likely the same sources that have proven to be right before.


While I think BuzzFeed isn't the best source for legit news, the two authors have a history of being right as well as award nomination/winning for their investigative journalism. These aren't two nitwits writing click bait content.
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby CAA Flagship » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:12 am

Ibanez wrote:
Skjellyfetti wrote:Yeah, would also like to see some corroboration on that.


Will say, though... those two BuzzFeed guys do seem to have some sources involved in the SDNY investigation.

They broke the Moscow Trump Tower story in May 2018... months before it was confirmed via court filings.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/an ... r-campaign

SDNY has interviewed Trump Org folks. It doesn't seem Mueller and Co. have done so yet. So, I think the sourcing is out of SDNY or FBI field office there. And, it's likely the same sources that have proven to be right before.


While I think BuzzFeed isn't the best source for legit news, the two authors have a history of being right as well as award nomination/winning for their investigative journalism. These aren't two nitwits writing click bait content.

:rofl: :rofl:
Really? You are bringing THAT up on THIS board? :facepalm:

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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby Grizalltheway » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:21 am

CAA Flagship wrote:
Ibanez wrote:
While I think BuzzFeed isn't the best source for legit news, the two authors have a history of being right as well as award nomination/winning for their investigative journalism. These aren't two nitwits writing click bait content.

:rofl: :rofl:
Really? You are bringing THAT up on THIS board? :facepalm:

We know.

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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby CAA Flagship » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:27 am

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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby 93henfan » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:44 am

mainejeff wrote:#LockHimUp.


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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby Silenoz » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:55 pm

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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby JohnStOnge » Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:04 pm

Pwns wrote:https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/17/politics/buzzfeed-trump-cohen-lie-congress-moscow/index.html

Looks like the media might be falling for Buzzfeed's tricks again. Still no independent corroboration yet.


From what I've seen they are being very cautious about it. Yes, they are talking a lot. But there's a lot of "if true" and "hasn't been confirmed by (insert media entity)" stuff.

I hope it turns out to be true so we can get rid of this guy. I'll never vote for Pence and hope if he does ascend he gets clobbered in the next election. But at least we would have an adult that has SOME idea as to what he's doing in the job.

But here is what mediabiasfactcheck has to say about Buzzfeed:

Overall, we rate Buzzfeed Left-Center Biased due to story selection that tends to favor the left and Mixed for factual reporting based on poor sourcing and a few failed fact checks. (6/30/2016) Updated (M. Huitsing 12/23/18)


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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby SeattleGriz » Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:55 pm

After Cohen, the next "bombshell" will be on Donald Trump Jr. Dem playbook.
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby SeattleGriz » Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:10 pm

Interesting to see how much more the DOJ attorneys let Bruce Ohr speak.

His testimony proved Adam Schiff was Adam Schitt in real life. He lied in the Dems version of the FISA release.
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby 93henfan » Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:43 pm

A Mueller spokesperson has just stated that the characterization of documents and testimony in the Buzzfeed report is not accurate.

I hope Buzzfeed has good lawyers, 'cause the Trump Train is coming your way, boys! :lol:
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby Pwns » Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:39 pm

CNN and NBC should be embarassed at how much credulity they gave to a story that was basically broken by a clickbait hub.
We get the government we deserve. :nod:

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Re: RE: Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby SeattleGriz » Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:50 pm

Pwns wrote:CNN and NBC should be embarassed at how much credulity they gave to a story that was basically broken by a clickbait hub.
This will happen again. Planting of bogus stories.

What bombshell story was this?
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby mainejeff » Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:34 pm

#LockHimUp
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby JohnStOnge » Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:37 pm

Pwns wrote:CNN and NBC should be embarassed at how much credulity they gave to a story that was basically broken by a clickbait hub.


Actually I think the problem here is that the media have to walk on eggshells because about 40% of the population is waiting to pounce on them. I was home today and had MSNBC on all day. Obviously that's a left leaning network. But the basic message conveyed all day was accurate. It was: There is a Buzzfeed story saying Trump told Cohen to lie to Congress, We have not confirmed it is true. No other news organization has confirmed it is true. Here are some reasons why it seems to fit some other things. Here are some reasons to be skeptical about it. If it is true it would be very serious. They talked about the checkered background of one of the Buzzfeed reporters. They talked about elements of the story that didn't seem likely.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. One could say they talked about it too much but it's a 24 hour news station. That's going to happen. But I did not see them say anything inaccurate all day. That 40% of the population, however, is going to say "SEE THE LIBERAL MEDIA GOT IT WRONG BECAUSE THEY HATE TRUMP" when, in reality, one media entity that is not among the leaders in that universe was apparently wrong to at least some extent.

And the "some extent" part is important. The Special Counsel's Office statement was very vague. If I say, "I caught a lot of fish, 31 crappie and 7 largemouth" and in reality I miscounted and had 30 crappie along with 8 largemouth I was not accurate. But I caught a lot of fish and the basic impression I created was pretty close. Buzzfeed is standing by its story and asking the Special Counsel's office to be specific about what's not accurate. The Special Counsel's office is not going to do that. But the Special Counsel's office did not say, "We don't have evidence to say Trump told Cohen to lie." It did not dispute the basic point of the story and it's quite possible for the basic point of the story to be correct while the story is not completely accurate.

Time will tell.
Last edited by JohnStOnge on Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby mainejeff » Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:46 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:
Pwns wrote:CNN and NBC should be embarassed at how much credulity they gave to a story that was basically broken by a clickbait hub.


Actually I think the problem here is that the media have to walk on eggshells because about 40% of the population is waiting to pounce on them.


Can you imagine if 60% of the population was waiting to pounce on them?

:coffee:
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Postby JohnStOnge » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:06 pm

mainejeff wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
Actually I think the problem here is that the media have to walk on eggshells because about 40% of the population is waiting to pounce on them.


Can you imagine if 60% of the population was waiting to pounce on them?

:coffee:


It's kind of a guess but I think most people Trust the media more than Trump. The latest poll I could quickly find on it is from September:

https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... than-trump

However, a problem is illustrated by the distribution of answers to this question:

Who do you trust more to tell you the truth about important issues: President Trump
or the news media?


72% of Republicans said they trusted Trump more while only 12% said they trust the media more. I'm sorry, but if you trust Trump to tell you the truth about important issues more than you trust the news media you are an idiot. You either have no critical thinking skills or you have suspended them.

Fortunately, I guess, Independents trusted the media more by 54% to 27%. I say "I guess" because having 27% of ANY group think they can trust Donald Trump to tell them the truth about ANYTHING is disturbing. Even if you think you can only trust the media to tell the truth 50% of the time 50% is greater than 0%.

The most intelligent distribution of responses was, of course, provided by Democrats. They trusted the news media more than Trump to tell the truth by 89% to 1%. Serendipity borne of opposition, perhaps. But it's consistent with the fact that Trump can be trusted to tell the truth 0% of the time.
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