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The term has been floating around lately. Is this a legit power struggle or tin foil hat hand wringing?

Curious to see CID's and Spandos's take...

There’s a showdown coming between Trump and the ‘deep state’ — and none of the outcomes are good



Ah, listen to that ominous phrase, the “Deep State.”

You hear the words hissing from the fur-lined rat hole of Breitbart. They ring from the pulpit of Greenwald. They sound in the silos of Salon and The Atlantic and Foreign Policy. And over on Twitter, the white nationalists are Jew-baiting the hapless Bill Kristol because he prefers the Deep State to the Trump State.

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/02/theres- ... -are-good/

You mean that presidents listen to experts who aren't elected? OMG! Call a constitutional convention right now! American voters and reality TV stars know just as much about cyber security and international trade and Byzantine Middle East affairs as these people do!

Pwns wrote:You mean that presidents listen to experts who aren't elected? OMG! Call a constitutional convention right now! American voters and reality TV stars know just as much about cyber security and international trade and Byzantine Middle East affairs as these people do!

I think you're kind of missing the point...

kalm wrote:

Pwns wrote:You mean that presidents listen to experts who aren't elected? OMG! Call a constitutional convention right now! American voters and reality TV stars know just as much about cyber security and international trade and Byzantine Middle East affairs as these people do!

I think you're kind of missing the point...

NO, I really don't think I am.

I think one of the most troubling things about Trump is filling up cabinet positions with toadies instead of people who are actual experts. I'm not sure that Trump wants to hear from any experts that tell him that something he wants to do is a bad idea. That's what the conflict between Trump and the "Deep state" is.

What the article refers to as "national security beauracracy" is people who have made careers out of intelligence and national security.

BTW, couldn't agencies like the SEC and the Treasury Department also be called "the deep state"? I hate it that it often seems like the Fox is guarding the hen house with those, but the alternative could be allowing some Ivy League economics professor who would be in over his head.

I just listened to a podcast with David Frum (GW Bush speech writer and Reagan Historian)
He goes into great detail about this exact issue

It's a long podcast but the first 20 minutes is substantial and critical data points on where we are now

https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/ ... -cucks-now

The problem that people are having problems with is admitting they are wrong and have been for sometime.

Trump is the one who is always right, his hiring practices of getting the most qualified person to do the work regardless of "who they know or how long they be an insider" is of little importance to anyone that matters.

We have been electing failures since Reagan, in the house and senate, filling cabinet positions with "the most qualified candidate and look where it has us?

Trump is right and this shake up is what Washington needed, its why we voted for him and the fact that both sides and all the establishment is complaining means its working. I would rather have chaos and circus folk than what we have had the last 20 years.

Deal with it Trump is right, you are wrong.


Is that "Deep Enough" for you?

kalm wrote:The term has been floating around lately. Is this a legit power struggle or tin foil hat hand wringing?

Curious to see CID's and Spandos's take...

There’s a showdown coming between Trump and the ‘deep state’ — and none of the outcomes are good



Ah, listen to that ominous phrase, the “Deep State.”

You hear the words hissing from the fur-lined rat hole of Breitbart. They ring from the pulpit of Greenwald. They sound in the silos of Salon and The Atlantic and Foreign Policy. And over on Twitter, the white nationalists are Jew-baiting the hapless Bill Kristol because he prefers the Deep State to the Trump State.

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/02/theres- ... -are-good/

It exists, definitely. It isn't as insidious as some people think - for various reasons... incompetence, etc. But every now and then it rears its ugly head. Trump is more of an enemy to entrenched D.C. bureaucrats than anyone in that office ever has been. It comes as no surprise that this is the leakiest admin in recent memory.

We have millions of people with security clearances, and hubris and self importance are issued at the door around here.

I completely agree with weakening worker "protections" in the Federal government. I have never encountered any place like this - this list of things that will get you fired around here is ridiculously short.


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Pwns wrote:

kalm wrote:
I think you're kind of missing the point...

NO, I really don't think I am.

I think one of the most troubling things about Trump is filling up cabinet positions with toadies instead of people who are actual experts. I'm not sure that Trump wants to hear from any experts that tell him that something he wants to do is a bad idea. That's what the conflict between Trump and the "Deep state" is.

What the article refers to as "national security beauracracy" is people who have made careers out of intelligence and national security.

BTW, couldn't agencies like the SEC and the Treasury Department also be called "the deep state"? I hate it that it often seems like the Fox is guarding the hen house with those, but the alternative could be allowing some Ivy League economics professor who would be in over his head.

Oh. I must have misread your post. You raise some good points here.

BTW this quote right here:

"The root of the problem is that, as the result of widespread and pervasive civic, political and historical ignorance, the aspirations of the polity to participate in governance vastly exceeds its capacity to do so responsibly."

Absolutely accurate.




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Trump is a dyckhead and will the damage he will do to this country. The "I'm always right" attitude will get him in trouble. Just watch!

He cant fuck this country up anymore than it already is.

mrklean wrote:Trump is a dyckhead and will the damage he will do to this country. The "I'm always right" attitude will get him in trouble. Just watch!

That's true for anyone in politics today. It isn't exclusive to Trump. Obama exhibited it. "Leaders" from both parties execute that attitude flawlessly.

ALPHAGRIZ1 wrote:He cant fuck this country up anymore than it already is.

How big a fucking snowflake do you have to be to think we got it tough here Alf?

Yeah it's just terrible around here!

Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:

ALPHAGRIZ1 wrote:He cant fuck this country up anymore than it already is.

How big a fucking snowflake do you have to be to think we got it tough here Alf?

Yeah it's just terrible around here!

Snowball?

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mrklean wrote:Trump is a dyckhead and will the damage he will do to this country. The "I'm always right" attitude will get him in trouble. Just watch!

Says the guy who posts a nonsequitur that reads just like a Trump tweet


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CID1990 wrote:BTW this quote right here:

"The root of the problem is that, as the result of widespread and pervasive civic, political and historical ignorance, the aspirations of the polity to participate in governance vastly exceeds its capacity to do so responsibly."

Absolutely accurate.




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As well as revulsion to the idea that voter ignorance is a big problem.

The very suggestion that voting carries responsibilities and the large voter turnout alone might not be a beautiful and great thing is considered unAmerican. And probably racist, too.

kalm wrote:

Pwns wrote:
NO, I really don't think I am.

I think one of the most troubling things about Trump is filling up cabinet positions with toadies instead of people who are actual experts. I'm not sure that Trump wants to hear from any experts that tell him that something he wants to do is a bad idea. That's what the conflict between Trump and the "Deep state" is.

What the article refers to as "national security beauracracy" is people who have made careers out of intelligence and national security.

BTW, couldn't agencies like the SEC and the Treasury Department also be called "the deep state"? I hate it that it often seems like the Fox is guarding the hen house with those, but the alternative could be allowing some Ivy League economics professor who would be in over his head.

Oh. I must have misread your post. You raise some good points here.

No, his first post was just too nuanced.

Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:

ALPHAGRIZ1 wrote:He cant fuck this country up anymore than it already is.

How big a fucking snowflake do you have to be to think we got it tough here Alf?

Yeah it's just terrible around here!

If you're white and male and living in America
and you can't find work or think it sucks here



YOU are your own biggest problem I guarantee that
without question (period, the end)

mrklean wrote:Trump is a dyckhead and will the damage he will do to this country. The "I'm always right" attitude will get him in trouble. Just watch!

Elections have consequences, bitch.

Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:

ALPHAGRIZ1 wrote:He cant fuck this country up anymore than it already is.

How big a fucking snowflake do you have to be to think we got it tough here Alf?

Yeah it's just terrible around here!

A rare swing and miss from you, Ursus.

Those two are not necessarily related.

But, how do you decide who is "informed" enough to vote?

These kind of tests could be worded by a Democratic SoS to black Republican demographics from voting and by a Republican SoS to block typically Democratic voters.

I don't see how there would be any way of implementing some sort of test it would just be abused like "congressional apportionment" turning into gerrymandering.

AZGrizFan wrote:

kalm wrote:
Oh. I must have misread your post. You raise some good points here.

No, his first post was just too nuanced.

How would you know?

AZGrizFan wrote:

Ursus A. Horribilis wrote: How big a fucking snowflake do you have to be to think we got it tough here Alf?

Yeah it's just terrible around here!

A rare swing and miss from you, Ursus.

Those two are not necessarily related.

Oh they really are. The quality of all of our lives is pretty good in this place, no matter who has been running it. That is really the prime factor in what level our country is at and how it has been managed.

Not perfect for sure. still damn good for almost all of us on here. So trying to act like a bitch just ain't gonna fly. I utilized the sweet spot and it was just so effortless you didn't think I made contact. I nailed it.

Part of the human condition is to whine, if you don't have real crap to whine about you make it up.

That is not exactly what you would call the definition of "fucked up".

Ursus A. Horribilis wrote: Part of the human condition is to whine

Our glorious POTUS! Actual quote.

I am the most fabulous whiner. I do whine because I want to win. And I'm not happy if I'm not winning. And I am a whiner. And I'm a whiner and I keep whining and whining until I win.

Skjellyfetti wrote:

Ursus A. Horribilis wrote: Part of the human condition is to whine

Our glorious POTUS! Actual quote.

I am the most fabulous whiner. I do whine because I want to win. And I'm not happy if I'm not winning. And I am a whiner. And I'm a whiner and I keep whining and whining until I win.

You know, for a POTUS who has been riddled with inaccuracies and just flat out dreamt up stuff, he does have the penchant from time to time to pull the curtain back on the truth of politics and politicians that you would never hear a seasoned politician ever admit to. You could drop the name of any politician into that quote and have a pretty good chance of being accurate.