Obama Wiretapping Trump

[kalm]

It's absolute fact that he owes one Chines bank $350 Million
and likely another $200 million

The tower at 1290 Avenue of Americas, near Rockefeller Center.
Loan documents show that Bank of China — agreed in November 2012 to lend $950 million to the three companies that own the building. Those companies, obscurely named HWA 1290 III LLC, HWA 1290 IV LLC and HWA 1290 V LLC, One of those obscurities is a Trump company

Trump is a 30 percent owner of that building... and the debt

A similar ownership structure is in place at 555 California Street in San Francisco, formerly the Bank of America Center. There, Pacific Life Insurance Company and Metropolitan Life Insurance Company lent $600 million in 2011 to a limited liability company of which Vornado owns 70 percent and Mr. Trump owns 30 percent.

The building is leveraged almost 300% higher than it's actual value
Making Trump Corp. a $200 Million debt owner...

And the list goes on and on and on... As Ivy already said, Trump is leveraged to the absolute hilt
He's a walking portfolio of monster debt

You've painted clear picture of why it is quite fitting that Trump should be our President

He's like a metaphor for American fiscal policy

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[CAA Flagship]

Is it? Or is Trump operating so far over your head that you can't see it?

Weeeeeeeee!!!!

Quiet. I'm trolling.

[YoUDeeMan]

Oh I definitely think there was probable cause to get a warrant to check on the servers in Trump Tower that are connected to Russian banks. There's plenty of smoke there

It's pretty obvious that Trump has biz interests there.

It's also probable that he has biz interests with China, Uzbekistan, Mozambique, Benin and Liechtenstein.

But the Russians hacked the DNC - the political mill of a President and others with whom Putin had an axe to grind. So of course here we are- any ties to Russia are prima fascie evidence of collusion

If Trump and Co did coordinate with the Russians on the hacking it would be the most monumentally stupid act by any Presidential hopeful in the history of this country - because I doubt Putin needed any encouragement. And they've meddled before

(Actually McCain choosing Palin might have been dumber but you get the picture)

It's absolute fact that he owes one Chines bank $350 Million
and likely another $200 million

The tower at 1290 Avenue of Americas, near Rockefeller Center.
Loan documents show that Bank of China — agreed in November 2012 to lend $950 million to the three companies that own the building. Those companies, obscurely named HWA 1290 III LLC, HWA 1290 IV LLC and HWA 1290 V LLC, One of those obscurities is a Trump company

Trump is a 30 percent owner of that building... and the debt

A similar ownership structure is in place at 555 California Street in San Francisco, formerly the Bank of America Center. There, Pacific Life Insurance Company and Metropolitan Life Insurance Company lent $600 million in 2011 to a limited liability company of which Vornado owns 70 percent and Mr. Trump owns 30 percent.

The building is leveraged almost 300% higher than it's actual value
Making Trump Corp. a $200 Million debt owner...

And the list goes on and on and on... As Ivy already said, Trump is leveraged to the absolute hilt
He's a walking portfolio of monster debt

You are really, really bad at math.

[CAA Flagship]

Oh I definitely think there was probable cause to get a warrant to check on the servers in Trump Tower that are connected to Russian banks. There's plenty of smoke there

It's pretty obvious that Trump has biz interests there.

It's also probable that he has biz interests with China, Uzbekistan, Mozambique, Benin and Liechtenstein.

But the Russians hacked the DNC - the political mill of a President and others with whom Putin had an axe to grind. So of course here we are- any ties to Russia are prima fascie evidence of collusion

If Trump and Co did coordinate with the Russians on the hacking it would be the most monumentally stupid act by any Presidential hopeful in the history of this country - because I doubt Putin needed any encouragement. And they've meddled before

(Actually McCain choosing Palin might have been dumber but you get the picture)

It's absolute fact that he owes one Chines bank $350 Million
and likely another $200 million

The tower at 1290 Avenue of Americas, near Rockefeller Center.
Loan documents show that Bank of China — agreed in November 2012 to lend $950 million to the three companies that own the building. Those companies, obscurely named HWA 1290 III LLC, HWA 1290 IV LLC and HWA 1290 V LLC, One of those obscurities is a Trump company

Trump is a 30 percent owner of that building... and the debt

A similar ownership structure is in place at 555 California Street in San Francisco, formerly the Bank of America Center. There, Pacific Life Insurance Company and Metropolitan Life Insurance Company lent $600 million in 2011 to a limited liability company of which Vornado owns 70 percent and Mr. Trump owns 30 percent.

The building is leveraged almost 300% higher than it's actual value
Making Trump Corp. a $200 Million debt owner...

And the list goes on and on and on... As Ivy already said, Trump is leveraged to the absolute hilt
He's a walking portfolio of monster debt

Chizzy, do you know what you are talking about here or are you just spouting numbers?
I ask because this is real estate we are talking about. I owe nearly $500k on my house. And sadly the mortgage is not in an LLC that I could walk away from if things got bad.
Seriously, what is the relative problem with anything you wrote?
Maybe it's the 300% thing? Sounds bad, but how abnormal is that?

[houndawg]

It's absolute fact that he owes one Chines bank $350 Million
and likely another $200 million

The tower at 1290 Avenue of Americas, near Rockefeller Center.
Loan documents show that Bank of China — agreed in November 2012 to lend $950 million to the three companies that own the building. Those companies, obscurely named HWA 1290 III LLC, HWA 1290 IV LLC and HWA 1290 V LLC, One of those obscurities is a Trump company

Trump is a 30 percent owner of that building... and the debt

A similar ownership structure is in place at 555 California Street in San Francisco, formerly the Bank of America Center. There, Pacific Life Insurance Company and Metropolitan Life Insurance Company lent $600 million in 2011 to a limited liability company of which Vornado owns 70 percent and Mr. Trump owns 30 percent.

The building is leveraged almost 300% higher than it's actual value
Making Trump Corp. a $200 Million debt owner...

And the list goes on and on and on... As Ivy already said, Trump is leveraged to the absolute hilt
He's a walking portfolio of monster debt

Chizzy, do you know what you are talking about here or are you just spouting numbers?
I ask because this is real estate we are talking about. I owe nearly $500k on my house. And sadly the mortgage is not in an LLC that I could walk away from if things got bad.
Seriously, what is the relative problem with anything you wrote?
Maybe it's the 300% thing? Sounds bad, but how abnormal is that?

how do you let yourself get into that situation?

(Flaggy, you and Cuck need to see a tailor about Batman and Robin suits. They'll be of great help in your quest to defend Trump whenever and wherever his name is taken in vain. We'll let you two decide who gets to be Robin..)

[CAA Flagship]

Chizzy, do you know what you are talking about here or are you just spouting numbers?
I ask because this is real estate we are talking about. I owe nearly $500k on my house. And sadly the mortgage is not in an LLC that I could walk away from if things got bad.
Seriously, what is the relative problem with anything you wrote?
Maybe it's the 300% thing? Sounds bad, but how abnormal is that?

how do you let yourself get into that situation?

(Flaggy, you and Cuck need to see a tailor about Batman and Robin suits. They'll be of great help in your quest to defend Trump whenever and wherever his name is taken in vain. We'll let you two decide who gets to be Robin..)

What situation? A mortgage?
I'm not defending Trump here, I'm trying to understand the numbers. I'm not sure what Chizzy relatively means by "owe" and "debt".

[Skjellyfetti]

Has there ever been evidence that proves that Trump is/was under audit?

Well, he says he was many times.

If you're point is: should we believe anything he says? Yeah, probably not.

[CAA Flagship]

Has there ever been evidence that proves that Trump is/was under audit?

Well, he says he was many times.

If you're point is: should we believe anything he says? Yeah, probably not.

I just don't understand how the IRS can't confirm this. And if the tax returns are in the IRS's control, whether under audit or not, can the Intelligence Agencies gain access to them in the case of an investigation?

I guess what I am getting at is that I don't care if the public sees the tax returns as much as I am concerned that the appropriate Federal agencies see them.

[Aho Old Guy]

The Trumptanic's net worth, like many of us (including me, %#!* !!), took a major kick to the groin after the Boosh Financial Crisis. The value of much of his real estate empire re-set to 2002-levels and is now, 15 years later, just starting to rebound.

And as typical of some, El Don-Oh pumps the value of his holdings on his balance sheet to paint a pretty picture of his net worth --- while low-balling property values to govt officials to reduce his property taxes and local fees ...

Trump’s Golf Havens Fight Taxes and Shrink Local Revenues

After the fustercluck of LTCM in the late '90s, some of us were fortunate enough to see the crash of the 'Financial Weapons of Mass Destruction' on the horizon, cleaned-up our balance sheets, and paid-off debt. My goal was 'Debt-Free by 2003' (in my case it was actually late 2004).

By 2005 our Wall Street Bankster friends had successfully leveraged single dollars 50X with their FWMD, and were tossing **Hot Taters** back-and-forth to close overnight accounts.

[Skjellyfetti]

I just don't understand how the IRS can't confirm this. And if the tax returns are in the IRS's control, whether under audit or not, can the Intelligence Agencies gain access to them in the case of an investigation?

I guess what I am getting at is that I don't care if the public sees the tax returns as much as I am concerned that the appropriate Federal agencies see them.

Yeah, the Treasury Department's Financial Crimes unit is part of the investigation.

So, yeah. I'm sure they have access to them. And, I'm sure there is a reason they were included in the investigation.

[kalm]

The Trumptanic's net worth, like many of us (including me, %#!* !!), took a major kick to the groin after the Boosh Financial Crisis. The value of much of his real estate empire re-set to 2002-levels and is now, 15 years later, just starting to rebound.

And as typical of some, El Don-Oh pumps the value of his holdings on his balance sheet to paint a pretty picture of his net worth --- while low-balling property values to govt officials to reduce his property taxes and local fees ...

Trump’s Golf Havens Fight Taxes and Shrink Local Revenues

After the fustercluck of LTCM in the late '90s, some of us were fortunate enough to see the crash of the 'Financial Weapons of Mass Destruction' on the horizon, cleaned-up our balance sheets, and paid-off debt. My goal was 'Debt-Free by 2003' (in my case it was actually late 2004).

By 2005 our Wall Street Bankster friends had successfully leveraged single dollars 50X with their FWMD, and were tossing **Hot Taters** back-and-forth to close overnight accounts.

which begs another question...is Trump really a 3 handicap?

[Chizzang]

It's absolute fact that he owes one Chines bank $350 Million
and likely another $200 million

The tower at 1290 Avenue of Americas, near Rockefeller Center.
Loan documents show that Bank of China — agreed in November 2012 to lend $950 million to the three companies that own the building. Those companies, obscurely named HWA 1290 III LLC, HWA 1290 IV LLC and HWA 1290 V LLC, One of those obscurities is a Trump company

Trump is a 30 percent owner of that building... and the debt

A similar ownership structure is in place at 555 California Street in San Francisco, formerly the Bank of America Center. There, Pacific Life Insurance Company and Metropolitan Life Insurance Company lent $600 million in 2011 to a limited liability company of which Vornado owns 70 percent and Mr. Trump owns 30 percent.

The building is leveraged almost 300% higher than it's actual value
Making Trump Corp. a $200 Million debt owner...

And the list goes on and on and on... As Ivy already said, Trump is leveraged to the absolute hilt
He's a walking portfolio of monster debt

Chizzy, do you know what you are talking about here or are you just spouting numbers?
I ask because this is real estate we are talking about. I owe nearly $500k on my house. And sadly the mortgage is not in an LLC that I could walk away from if things got bad.
Seriously, what is the relative problem with anything you wrote?
Maybe it's the 300% thing? Sounds bad, but how abnormal is that?

Trump has already walked away 4 times from failed over leveraged properties
(Hint: It's called Bankruptcy)

Do some research on the guy
it's absolutely mind boggling what you'll find

[Ibanez]

Has there ever been evidence that proves that Trump is/was under audit?

Well, he says he was many times.

If you're point is: should we believe anything he says? Yeah, probably not.

Didn't he say he has been continuously audited for 12 or so years? That seems unusual to me.

[Grizalltheway]

Well, he says he was many times.

If you're point is: should we believe anything he says? Yeah, probably not.

Didn't he say he has been continuously audited for 12 or so years? That seems unusual to me.

When you're as skeezy and morally bankrupt as he is? Not really.

[kalm]

Didn't he say he has been continuously audited for 12 or so years? That seems unusual to me.

When you're as skeezy and morally bankrupt as he is? Not really.

Haven't heard "skeezy" for awhile.

What a buzzard!

[CID1990]

Well, he says he was many times.

If you're point is: should we believe anything he says? Yeah, probably not.

I just don't understand how the IRS can't confirm this. And if the tax returns are in the IRS's control, whether under audit or not, can the Intelligence Agencies gain access to them in the case of an investigation?

I guess what I am getting at is that I don't care if the public sees the tax returns as much as I am concerned that the appropriate Federal agencies see them.

The FBI can access them but tax returns are private - so they would need to jump through the usual hoops to get them. They probably don't have cause. Another thing to consider is that the IRS itself can take action on wrongdoing in its own wheelhouse- evasion, etc. Also, if tax returns point to some other criminal wrongdoing then the IRS can ping the FBI.

My guess is that whatever snooping the FBI is doing on the Russia thing the tax returns aren't material to that. They probably show conflicts of interest but those aren't necessarily criminal in and of themselves.

I've said before- our rules governing Presidential conflicts of interest a geared towards career politicians rather than CEOs. It is going to be interesting to see how it all plays out but I suspect we'll just see a lot of gnashing of teeth and speculation that Trump is doing X because of his business ties to Y, and little else.




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[JohnStOnge]

I believe Levin used almost all articles from left wing papers to put the story together. Used their own stories against them. You calling the WaPo and NYT fake news, or worse, liars?

I'm calling Levin a liar if that's what he said.

There's nothing in the WaPo or NYT that insinuates Obama ordered a wiretap... or anything close to that.

There's information that suggests that Trump and/or his associates may have been wiretapped. But, that's pretty **** different than saying Obama ordered it or had anything to do with it.

Agreed. I tried looking at the Breitbart "article" on the situation at http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... ine-trump/. I'd say the two key assertions are that "The Obama administration files a request with the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISA) to monitor communications involving Donald Trump and several advisers" and "The Obama administration submits a new, narrow request to the FISA court, now focused on a computer server in Trump Tower suspected of links to Russian bank."

There are two issues. One is that both claims link the same article from something called "Heat Street." It could be credible. Or it might not be. It's certainly not a universally recognized name among mainstream news organizations. The second issue is that the Heat Street article doesn't say "The Obama Administration." It says "The FBI."

Just found an interesting web site query represented as assessing the bias of any given news organization:

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/?s=Heat+Street

[JohnStOnge]

It's gotten to the point where I think of my "side," the conservative side, every time I see this commercial:

phpBB [video]

Over the past 18 months or so the conservative movement has shown that it has a brain tumor or something. It's just gone completely off the rails. It's in the process of totally destroying it's credibility basically forever.

[JohnStOnge]

[GannonFan]

It's just gone completely off the rails. It's in the process of totally destroying it's credibility basically forever.

Irony, thy screen name is JSO.

[Skjellyfetti]

The FBI can access them but tax returns are private - so they would need to jump through the usual hoops to get them. They probably don't have cause. Another thing to consider is that the IRS itself can take action on wrongdoing in its own wheelhouse- evasion, etc. Also, if tax returns point to some other criminal wrongdoing then the IRS can ping the FBI.

The Treasury Deparment's financial crimes unit has been assisting the FBI. Don't think they'd have much issue getting Trump's [and all his associate's] tax returns.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politic ... 31799.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... 002659817c
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/19/us/p ... .html?_r=0

[CID1990]

The FBI can access them but tax returns are private - so they would need to jump through the usual hoops to get them. They probably don't have cause. Another thing to consider is that the IRS itself can take action on wrongdoing in its own wheelhouse- evasion, etc. Also, if tax returns point to some other criminal wrongdoing then the IRS can ping the FBI.

The Treasury Deparment's financial crimes unit has been assisting the FBI. Don't think they'd have much issue getting Trump's [and all his associate's] tax returns.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politic ... 31799.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... 002659817c
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/19/us/p ... .html?_r=0

It doesn't work that way. And yes, they would have an issue getting them if Treasury is following the law.

It depends on if there is evidence of interstate criminal activity like money laundering. In absence of that the IRS can't just hand over the returns for a fishing expedition. Violations of the tax code are not in Justice's purview, and if Treasury is looking into Trump, it's tax related. I deal with this interagency stuff all the time - DEA, ICE, etc asking for citizenship or other data in their investigations. There are very specific rules governing access to privacy data and tax returns are definitely PII.

By all means though- feel free to post several more links from news agencies that also don't fully understand the process. I think 10-15 or so should do the trick


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[SDHornet]

It's just gone completely off the rails. It's in the process of totally destroying it's credibility basically forever.

Irony, thy screen name is JSO.

[YoUDeeMan]

The Treasury Deparment's financial crimes unit has been assisting the FBI. Don't think they'd have much issue getting Trump's [and all his associate's] tax returns.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politic ... 31799.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... 002659817c
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/19/us/p ... .html?_r=0

It doesn't work that way. And yes, they would have an issue getting them if Treasury is following the law.

It depends on if there is evidence of interstate criminal activity like money laundering. In absence of that the IRS can't just hand over the returns for a fishing expedition. Violations of the tax code are not in Justice's purview, and if Treasury is looking into Trump, it's tax related. I deal with this interagency stuff all the time - DEA, ICE, etc asking for citizenship or other data in their investigations. There are very specific rules governing access to privacy data and tax returns are definitely PII.

By all means though- feel free to post several more links from news agencies that also don't fully understand the process. I think 10-15 or so should do the trick


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jellybean quotes the Main Stream Media...and CID brings in reality.

[Aho Old Guy]

----
which begs another question...is Trump really a 3 handicap?

You betcha (wink-wink): Donald (duck!) on the links . . .

phpBB [video]

**Big Fat NOOOOOO!**