I can agree with all of that but I don't think that the answer is a lurch to the left. The answer involves both sides working together but both are so certain of the righteousness of their cause that they refuse to listen to the other.Chizzang wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:09 pm We do need to seriously evaluate a system where Americans are more productive than ever before in history
and Corporate America is making more money than ever before
1) and wages are flat
2) homes are more expensive than ever
3) wages are flat
4) College Education is more expensive then ever
5) Wages are flat
6) healthcare is broken
8) we're the world police at an unreasonably high expense
9) Our infrastructure is below the entirety of Europe and Japan
This seems like something should change
and Trump obsessed with Deregulation and Wall Street profits
He's not "The Answer" to a crumbling America
We're not Number one in anything - but corporate profits, guns, bombs and global military bases
We trail in
Middle class wages
Infrastructure hardware
Infrastructure Technology
Healthcare
Education
Political memes, Posters, Funny Pics, Etc.
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Re: Political memes, Posters, Funny Pics, Etc.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
Re: Political memes, Posters, Funny Pics, Etc.
I mean the short answer is yes. I'm more radical of course in that I support the dissolution of the federal government (aka. United States) into a many smaller federal governments.UNI88 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:11 pmBut you're willing to risk destroying it in order to improve it?∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:44 pm Oh lord love that argument: "If you don't like it then leave." Yeah that's always healthy...give up if you don't like something instead of improving it.
I've said it many times now: America is my friends, my neighbors, my family, my coworkers, my teachers and doctors and accountants, etc. The Constitution isn't America. The land isn't America. The history isn't America. The people are America. That's why I love it.
Of course most Americans don't want that (I think), which I respect. That's why I'm supporting Sanders as he'll be more or less the same except with a conscious and policy-points I mostly agree with. He'll still be "checked" by Congress, but his voice can plant the seeds for future generations to continue the changes.
The cat's out of the bag. If neoliberalism worked, you wouldn't see this backlash against it.
Bern it down.
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I think you’re ignoring the lurch to the right by both parties since the 1960’s.UNI88 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:16 pmI can agree with all of that but I don't think that the answer is a lurch to the left. The answer involves both sides working together but both are so certain of the righteousness of their cause that they refuse to listen to the other.Chizzang wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:09 pm We do need to seriously evaluate a system where Americans are more productive than ever before in history
and Corporate America is making more money than ever before
1) and wages are flat
2) homes are more expensive than ever
3) wages are flat
4) College Education is more expensive then ever
5) Wages are flat
6) healthcare is broken
8) we're the world police at an unreasonably high expense
9) Our infrastructure is below the entirety of Europe and Japan
This seems like something should change
and Trump obsessed with Deregulation and Wall Street profits
He's not "The Answer" to a crumbling America
We're not Number one in anything - but corporate profits, guns, bombs and global military bases
We trail in
Middle class wages
Infrastructure hardware
Infrastructure Technology
Healthcare
Education
Equating Bernie to Soviet style communism is not dissimilar to calling Trump a Nazi.
Don’t go all Chris Matthews on us now...
https://www.newsweek.com/chris-matthews ... 1582451976
Last edited by kalm on Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Political memes, Posters, Funny Pics, Etc.
I heart Bernie! Don't screw him again, DNC. Give the man a chance!!
Go, Bernie go!
Go, Bernie go!
Delaware Football: 1889-2012; 2022-
Re: Political memes, Posters, Funny Pics, Etc.
Also, great job UNI88, standing up to the mob in this thread.
Delaware Football: 1889-2012; 2022-
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Examples of how we've lurched to the right?kalm wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:51 pmI think you’re ignoring the lurch to the right by both parties since the 1960’s.
Equating Bernie to Soviet style communism is not dissimilar to calling Trump a Nazi.
Don’t go all Chris Matthews on us now...
https://www.newsweek.com/chris-matthews ... 1582451976
Yes, the Donks have become almost as beholden to Wall Street as the Conks but what important liberal policies/institutions have they really taken away? There are some such as Glass Steagall repeal but there are also thinks like No Child Left Behind to offset them. It's been more status quo with slight shifts back and forth and that includes Trump's 3 years.
Calling Bernie a communist might be a little hyperbolic but I don't think Trump honeymooned in Nazi Germany so Bernie is has a much stronger link to Soviet-style communism than Trump does to Nazism. Do I believe that Bernie's true goal is a socialist government? Yes. Do I think that our checks and balances will prevent him from achieving that goal? Yes. So I'm not quite like Trip and the other Chicken Littles who think the death of the republic (not democracy) is nigh because of Trump's election. I have faith in this country and its institutions.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
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any American making under $80K a year should be praying for Bernie to get elected...
Which by the way is 65% of Trumps base
Which by the way is 65% of Trumps base
Q: Name something that offends Republicans?
A: The actual teachings of Jesus
A: The actual teachings of Jesus
Re: Political memes, Posters, Funny Pics, Etc.
Nigh? It's been long dead; the US is a corporatocracy parading around as a Republic or Democracy or whatever anyone wants to call it.
And on top of that you've got a system where the triple pillars of government doesn't work for the same reason why triumvirates don't work...two will always gang up on one. Historically it's the executive and judicial branches ganging up on the one institution representing the People...which is further handicapped by having two sub-branches which have to agree with each other.
The whole system is designed so the will of the people is kept in check. It's no surprise it was engineered by prominent and wealthy (white) men of the time. Even the election of a President is done indirectly.
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“Tolerance and Apathy are the last virtues of a dying society.” Aristotle
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
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“Tolerance and Apathy are the last virtues of a dying society.” Aristotle
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
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Nice rant.Chizzang wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:09 pm We do need to seriously evaluate a system where Americans are more productive than ever before in history
and Corporate America is making more money than ever before
1) and wages are flat
2) homes are more expensive than ever
3) wages are flat
4) College Education is more expensive then ever
5) Wages are flat
6) healthcare is broken
8) we're the world police at an unreasonably high expense
9) Our infrastructure is below the entirety of Europe and Japan
This seems like something should change
and Trump obsessed with Deregulation and Wall Street profits
He's not "The Answer" to a crumbling America
We're not Number one in anything - but corporate profits, guns, bombs and global military bases
We trail in
Middle class wages
Infrastructure hardware
Infrastructure Technology
Healthcare
Education
Wages are not flat. 5% growth YOY. Growing faster at the low end than the high end. But don’t let that stand in the way of your BS.
And I would love to know what “infrasture” we Trail Europe in. I’ve been to England, Ireland, Spain, Italy & Greece in the past 18 months. Vast majority of these places? Absolute shithole tourist traps. And when you get OFF the beaten path and the non-touristy places, most places in mainland Europe look like third world countries. So tell me again, what infrastructure are we “trailing” in?
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Re: Political memes, Posters, Funny Pics, Etc.
I suspect that calling someone a socialist in politics is now about as worthless as calling someone a racist, but regardless, this will definitely not help Sanders...
Celebrate Diversity.*
*of appearance only. Restrictions apply.
*of appearance only. Restrictions apply.
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Re: Political memes, Posters, Funny Pics, Etc.
AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:37 pmNice rant.Chizzang wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:09 pm We do need to seriously evaluate a system where Americans are more productive than ever before in history
and Corporate America is making more money than ever before
1) and wages are flat
2) homes are more expensive than ever
3) wages are flat
4) College Education is more expensive then ever
5) Wages are flat
6) healthcare is broken
8) we're the world police at an unreasonably high expense
9) Our infrastructure is below the entirety of Europe and Japan
This seems like something should change
and Trump obsessed with Deregulation and Wall Street profits
He's not "The Answer" to a crumbling America
We're not Number one in anything - but corporate profits, guns, bombs and global military bases
We trail in
Middle class wages
Infrastructure hardware
Infrastructure Technology
Healthcare
Education
Wages are not flat. 5% growth YOY. Growing faster at the low end than the high end. But don’t let that stand in the way of your BS.
And I would love to know what “infrasture” we Trail Europe in. I’ve been to England, Ireland, Spain, Italy & Greece in the past 18 months. Vast majority of these places? Absolute shithole tourist traps. And when you get OFF the beaten path and the non-touristy places, most places in mainland Europe look like third world countries. So tell me again, what infrastructure are we “trailing” in?
Here's a link (Wages over time)
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/W270RE1A156NBEA
here's a link (personal expenditures over time)
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DPCE ... categories
I await YOUR link to support your claim
Q: Name something that offends Republicans?
A: The actual teachings of Jesus
A: The actual teachings of Jesus
Re: Political memes, Posters, Funny Pics, Etc.
AZ's number comes from the fact that "wages" are up for the wealthy, which also corresponds with the increase in the wealth gap under Trump. All statistic show real wages among the middle and lower class have been stagnant.Chizzang wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:34 pmHere's a link
Here's a link (Wages over time)
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/W270RE1A156NBEA
here's a link (personal expenditures over time)
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DPCE ... categories
I await YOUR link to support your claim
For simplicity, 99 employees make $100 each; the CEO makes $1100. The board raises the CEO's salary to $1650, now wages are up 5%.
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Re: Political memes, Posters, Funny Pics, Etc.
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/wage-growthChizzang wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:34 pmAZGrizFan wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:37 pm
Nice rant.
Wages are not flat. 5% growth YOY. Growing faster at the low end than the high end. But don’t let that stand in the way of your BS.
And I would love to know what “infrasture” we Trail Europe in. I’ve been to England, Ireland, Spain, Italy & Greece in the past 18 months. Vast majority of these places? Absolute shithole tourist traps. And when you get OFF the beaten path and the non-touristy places, most places in mainland Europe look like third world countries. So tell me again, what infrastructure are we “trailing” in?
Here's a link (Wages over time)
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/W270RE1A156NBEA
here's a link (personal expenditures over time)
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DPCE ... categories
I await YOUR link to support your claim
4.5-5% growth YOY
And analjelly, stick this in your pipe and smoke it:
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/13/workers ... wages.html
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
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That's nice AZ, conveniently leaving out that 50% of Americans didn't receive a raise last year, or that 44% of Americans 18-64 are now making $18,000 or less a year. Fourty-four. That 3.4% increase in low-wage jobs accounts to approximately $600/yr (without including inflation). Even for a middle-class person like me, 5% makes no discernible difference (and I haven't seen anywhere near 5%).
Start looking at the big picture. The stock market is a terrible economic metric, and wage percentages don't tell the whole story. People are hurting, working more hours, falling behind on bills, going into debt, holding off children, etc...yet you've convinced yourself the economy is helping everyone. Maybe for the wealthy and upper-middle class, but I don't see it from where I sit.
Start looking at the big picture. The stock market is a terrible economic metric, and wage percentages don't tell the whole story. People are hurting, working more hours, falling behind on bills, going into debt, holding off children, etc...yet you've convinced yourself the economy is helping everyone. Maybe for the wealthy and upper-middle class, but I don't see it from where I sit.
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Re: Political memes, Posters, Funny Pics, Etc.
You mean this...∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:25 pm That's nice AZ, conveniently leaving out that 50% of Americans didn't receive a raise last year, or that 44% of Americans 18-64 are now making $18,000 or less a year. Fourty-four. That 3.4% increase in low-wage jobs accounts to approximately $600/yr (without including inflation). Even for a middle-class person like me, 5% makes no discernible difference (and I haven't seen anywhere near 5%).
Start looking at the big picture. The stock market is a terrible economic metric, and wage percentages don't tell the whole story. People are hurting, working more hours, falling behind on bills, going into debt, holding off children, etc...yet you've convinced yourself the economy is helping everyone. Maybe for the wealthy and upper-middle class, but I don't see it from where I sit.
if you look hard enough you can find the "average Employee" margin increase in this graph... it takes a minute
AZ likes to fancy himself an super valuable executive so this one ^ always annoys him...
I found a video of me and AZ talking about the economy
Q: Name something that offends Republicans?
A: The actual teachings of Jesus
A: The actual teachings of Jesus
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No what I find funny is that you like to take a data set that includes a couple hundred CEO’s who grossly overweight that graph and then throw it into faces of normal, working people to tell/show them how unloved they are.
I do find it funny when you consistently try to make it about me though. Starting to worry about you,
I also find it funny that you say “wages are flat” or “wages are stagnant” NOW, then post a graph that literally stops the middle of Obama’s 2nd term.
I do find it funny when you consistently try to make it about me though. Starting to worry about you,
I also find it funny that you say “wages are flat” or “wages are stagnant” NOW, then post a graph that literally stops the middle of Obama’s 2nd term.
Last edited by AZGrizFan on Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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I love how you spout stats with zero proof. It’s so cute. Got any links to back up all that bloviating?∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:25 pm That's nice AZ, conveniently leaving out that 50% of Americans didn't receive a raise last year, or that 44% of Americans 18-64 are now making $18,000 or less a year. Fourty-four. That 3.4% increase in low-wage jobs accounts to approximately $600/yr (without including inflation). Even for a middle-class person like me, 5% makes no discernible difference (and I haven't seen anywhere near 5%).
Start looking at the big picture. The stock market is a terrible economic metric, and wage percentages don't tell the whole story. People are hurting, working more hours, falling behind on bills, going into debt, holding off children, etc...yet you've convinced yourself the economy is helping everyone. Maybe for the wealthy and upper-middle class, but I don't see it from where I sit.
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
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Well I just said as much. What’s your next move, Einstein?
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Link? It's Chizzy's MO to make up statistics to support his argument. It's funny when he does it to 89 but it's not working here.∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:25 pm That's nice AZ, conveniently leaving out that 50% of Americans didn't receive a raise last year, or that 44% of Americans 18-64 are now making $18,000 or less a year. Fourty-four. That 3.4% increase in low-wage jobs accounts to approximately $600/yr (without including inflation). Even for a middle-class person like me, 5% makes no discernible difference (and I haven't seen anywhere near 5%).
Start looking at the big picture. The stock market is a terrible economic metric, and wage percentages don't tell the whole story. People are hurting, working more hours, falling behind on bills, going into debt, holding off children, etc...yet you've convinced yourself the economy is helping everyone. Maybe for the wealthy and upper-middle class, but I don't see it from where I sit.
And 5% makes no discernible difference? It's called compounding and it makes a difference for your retirement and your overall pay. 5% might not be a big change from one year to the next but it adds up over time. Your impatience is your problem, not a national catastrophe.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
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44% of people between the ages of 18-64 are making $18000 or less?
Gonna need to see a link on that one, Treep
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Gonna need to see a link on that one, Treep
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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You forgot the part where 25 employees were laid off to show a profit, so the CEO can get a $10,000 bonus in stock options.∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:42 pmAZ's number comes from the fact that "wages" are up for the wealthy, which also corresponds with the increase in the wealth gap under Trump. All statistic show real wages among the middle and lower class have been stagnant.Chizzang wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:34 pmHere's a link
Here's a link (Wages over time)
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/W270RE1A156NBEA
here's a link (personal expenditures over time)
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DPCE ... categories
I await YOUR link to support your claim
For simplicity, 99 employees make $100 each; the CEO makes $1100. The board raises the CEO's salary to $1650, now wages are up 5%.