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Post by Gil Dobie »

GannonFan wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
Agreed. :nod: :nod:
Agreed. This has to be one of the saddest aspects of the government that we have now (and have had for the past decade or so) - we know we have an area (immigration) where we should be working on making it very clear what the law is, or what we want to change it to, and then enforcing what we agree to. It doesn't seem, despite talking about this for at least 8 years now, that we've even really started the discussion of how to fix this. And really, this is probably one of the least controversial agenda items to tackle and we can't even get started on this one. The new blood in government has to take over some time - too many old folks in government doing nothing but staying on in government.
Sad thing is, their job appears to be Party first, American 2nd.
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Post by Chizzang »

Ask the right questions:


why aren't we going after the companies that hire illegals ..?
Why aren't we enforcing the employment laws on the books

Who decides what laws to enforce and what laws to ignore ..?
Why is it so easy to "get work" illegally in this country..?

:geek:

Are we even asking the right questions..?
Last edited by Chizzang on Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by ALPHAGRIZ1 »

Gil Dobie wrote:
GannonFan wrote:
Agreed. This has to be one of the saddest aspects of the government that we have now (and have had for the past decade or so) - we know we have an area (immigration) where we should be working on making it very clear what the law is, or what we want to change it to, and then enforcing what we agree to. It doesn't seem, despite talking about this for at least 8 years now, that we've even really started the discussion of how to fix this. And really, this is probably one of the least controversial agenda items to tackle and we can't even get started on this one. The new blood in government has to take over some time - too many old folks in government doing nothing but staying on in government.
Sad thing is, their job appears to be Party first, American 2nd.
Wrong, every single person in Congrees is in it for themselves first, then power then party.

That's it nobody on either side is in it for their constituents. Not one

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Post by 89Hen »

Chizzang wrote:Ask the right questions:


why aren't we going after the companies that hire illegals ..?
Why aren't we enforcing the employment laws on the books

Who decides what laws to enforce and what laws to ignore ..?
Why is it so easy to "get work" illegally in this country..?

:geek:

Are we even asking the right questions..?
Illegals can have SSN's and drivers licenses. When we take a mortgage application we are required to ask if somebody is a citizen, but we are not required to ask for proof.
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Post by BDKJMU »

89Hen wrote:
Chizzang wrote:Ask the right questions:


why aren't we going after the companies that hire illegals ..?
Why aren't we enforcing the employment laws on the books

Who decides what laws to enforce and what laws to ignore ..?
Why is it so easy to "get work" illegally in this country..?

:geek:

Are we even asking the right questions..?
Illegals can have SSN's and drivers licenses. When we take a mortgage application we are required to ask if somebody is a citizen, but we are not required to ask for proof.
Not according to the SSA:
“..Generally, only noncitizens authorized to work in the United States by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) can get a Social Security number.”
https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10096.pdf
If an illegal produces a SS#, its highly likely stolen.
Course MD, DE are included in the 13 current states + DC where illegals can get DLs:
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Are you allowed to ask for proof?

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Post by Chizzang »

89Hen wrote:
Chizzang wrote:Ask the right questions:


why aren't we going after the companies that hire illegals ..?
Why aren't we enforcing the employment laws on the books

Who decides what laws to enforce and what laws to ignore ..?
Why is it so easy to "get work" illegally in this country..?

:geek:

Are we even asking the right questions..?
Illegals can have SSN's and drivers licenses. When we take a mortgage application we are required to ask if somebody is a citizen, but we are not required to ask for proof.
Sure,
They can have anything money can buy
but the questions I am asking are not yet answered
and so what if 1% of illegals have a fraudulent SS# that processes correctly
that's not THE problem

We're NOT going after the illegal employers - that is THE problem - why are we not going after them..?

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Post by CID1990 »

Chizzang wrote:Ask the right questions:


why aren't we going after the companies that hire illegals ..?
Why aren't we enforcing the employment laws on the books

Who decides what laws to enforce and what laws to ignore ..?
Why is it so easy to "get work" illegally in this country..?

:geek:

Are we even asking the right questions..?
Of course enforcement is key -

And that is usually where laws go to die. Law enforcement is an exercise in prioritization. On average, there are between 2 and 4 police officers per 1000 people. Obviously for that number to be sufficient, it requires a majority of people to be normal, law abiding citizens, which we mostly are.

But to satisfy the public interest in the illusion of “safety” those 2-4 cops have to spend most of their time answering calls for service, and detectives have to pursue cases in order of severity and public interest. As a result, a LOT of lawbreaking goes un policed. I’m fine with that... we are over criminalized as it is.

At the Federal level, it is even worse. There aren’t enough prosecutors and judges, and going after the CEO of a corporation is a dicey affair when it is HR that does the hiring. Add to this the fact that at least in the past, the crime of hiring illegals isn’t the sexiest crime out there.... Federal solicitors have to agree to take the cases, and they rarely do. Hell, passport fraud cases go un-prosecuted every day. A lot of work goes into investigating these crimes just to see the applicable prosecutor not pursue them with indictments. And it isn’t just because they are low yield cases... there just isn’t enough time to go after everything.

A little political will might help things, but at the end of the day, going after fat cats is going to have maybe a 5% success rate. And it is the actual hiring authority (usually the HR manager or mid level managers) that do that. Frog-walking Joe the plant manager would still have a chilling effect on hiring illegals, but again, you have to go after the murderers and sex traffickers and Russian troll farm owners first.


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Post by dbackjon »

CID1990 wrote:
Chizzang wrote:Ask the right questions:


why aren't we going after the companies that hire illegals ..?
Why aren't we enforcing the employment laws on the books

Who decides what laws to enforce and what laws to ignore ..?
Why is it so easy to "get work" illegally in this country..?

:geek:

Are we even asking the right questions..?
Of course enforcement is key -

And that is usually where laws go to die. Law enforcement is an exercise in prioritization. On average, there are between 2 and 4 police officers per 1000 people. Obviously for that number to be sufficient, it requires a majority of people to be normal, law abiding citizens, which we mostly are.

But to satisfy the public interest in the illusion of “safety” those 2-4 cops have to spend most of their time answering calls for service, and detectives have to pursue cases in order of severity and public interest. As a result, a LOT of lawbreaking goes un policed. I’m fine with that... we are over criminalized as it is.

At the Federal level, it is even worse. There aren’t enough prosecutors and judges, and going after the CEO of a corporation is a dicey affair when it is HR that does the hiring. Add to this the fact that at least in the past, the crime of hiring illegals isn’t the sexiest crime out there.... Federal solicitors have to agree to take the cases, and they rarely do. Hell, passport fraud cases go un-prosecuted every day. A lot of work goes into investigating these crimes just to see the applicable prosecutor not pursue them with indictments. And it isn’t just because they are low yield cases... there just isn’t enough time to go after everything.

A little political will might help things, but at the end of the day, going after fat cats is going to have maybe a 5% success rate. And it is the actual hiring authority (usually the HR manager or mid level managers) that do that. Frog-walking Joe the plant manager would still have a chilling effect on hiring illegals, but again, you have to go after the murderers and sex traffickers and Russian troll farm owners first.


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So the DEA should just stick to small time drug users, and leave El Chapo alone?
:thumb:

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Political memes, Posters, Funny Pics, Etc.

Post by CID1990 »

dbackjon wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
Of course enforcement is key -

And that is usually where laws go to die. Law enforcement is an exercise in prioritization. On average, there are between 2 and 4 police officers per 1000 people. Obviously for that number to be sufficient, it requires a majority of people to be normal, law abiding citizens, which we mostly are.

But to satisfy the public interest in the illusion of “safety” those 2-4 cops have to spend most of their time answering calls for service, and detectives have to pursue cases in order of severity and public interest. As a result, a LOT of lawbreaking goes un policed. I’m fine with that... we are over criminalized as it is.

At the Federal level, it is even worse. There aren’t enough prosecutors and judges, and going after the CEO of a corporation is a dicey affair when it is HR that does the hiring. Add to this the fact that at least in the past, the crime of hiring illegals isn’t the sexiest crime out there.... Federal solicitors have to agree to take the cases, and they rarely do. Hell, passport fraud cases go un-prosecuted every day. A lot of work goes into investigating these crimes just to see the applicable prosecutor not pursue them with indictments. And it isn’t just because they are low yield cases... there just isn’t enough time to go after everything.

A little political will might help things, but at the end of the day, going after fat cats is going to have maybe a 5% success rate. And it is the actual hiring authority (usually the HR manager or mid level managers) that do that. Frog-walking Joe the plant manager would still have a chilling effect on hiring illegals, but again, you have to go after the murderers and sex traffickers and Russian troll farm owners first.


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So the DEA should just stick to small time drug users, and leave El Chapo alone?
I pretty much explained the opposite if that, but I’ll help you out-

El Chapo was a priority, Jon. Cross birder drug kingpins are the top of the list

Passport forgers and employers of illegals in floor sweeping jobs are not

Law enforcement priorities are publicly driven, Jon. That’s you and me


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Post by kalm »

89Hen wrote:
Chizzang wrote:Ask the right questions:


why aren't we going after the companies that hire illegals ..?
Why aren't we enforcing the employment laws on the books

Who decides what laws to enforce and what laws to ignore ..?
Why is it so easy to "get work" illegally in this country..?

:geek:

Are we even asking the right questions..?
Illegals can have SSN's and drivers licenses. When we take a mortgage application we are required to ask if somebody is a citizen, but we are not required to ask for proof.
Employers do. Your crooked industry is just more crooked.
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Post by Skjellyfetti »

89Hen wrote:When we take a mortgage application we are required to ask if somebody is a citizen, but we are not required to ask for proof.
Really? Does it affect the application negatively if the answer is no?
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Cid1990 wrote:It is going to be a sad day for a lot of people when all that comes of all of this is Flynn getting whacked.

Mueller is going to take a beating on the left before this business is over

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Post by dbackjon »

CID1990 wrote:
dbackjon wrote:

So the DEA should just stick to small time drug users, and leave El Chapo alone?
I pretty much explained the opposite if that, but I’ll help you out-

El Chapo was a priority, Jon. Cross birder drug kingpins are the top of the list

Passport forgers and employers of illegals in floor sweeping jobs are not

Law enforcement priorities are publicly driven, Jon. That’s you and me


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But the guys sweeping the floors, and wringing the necks for your Chik-fil-a sandwich are, especially if they work for a company that is trying to avoid paying out discrimination lawsuits. Got it.


So the whole immigration thing is just a dog and pony show designed to rile up the idiotic, racist Trump base while he and his cronies steal the country blind, using illegal immigrant labor themselves.
:thumb:

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Post by Skjellyfetti »

Image
"The unmasking thing was all created by Devin Nunes"
- Richard Burr, (R-NC)
Cid1990 wrote:It is going to be a sad day for a lot of people when all that comes of all of this is Flynn getting whacked.

Mueller is going to take a beating on the left before this business is over

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Post by Skjellyfetti »

Image
"The unmasking thing was all created by Devin Nunes"
- Richard Burr, (R-NC)
Cid1990 wrote:It is going to be a sad day for a lot of people when all that comes of all of this is Flynn getting whacked.

Mueller is going to take a beating on the left before this business is over

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Post by ALPHAGRIZ1 »

dbackjon wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
I pretty much explained the opposite if that, but I’ll help you out-

El Chapo was a priority, Jon. Cross birder drug kingpins are the top of the list

Passport forgers and employers of illegals in floor sweeping jobs are not

Law enforcement priorities are publicly driven, Jon. That’s you and me


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But the guys sweeping the floors, and wringing the necks for your Chik-fil-a sandwich are, especially if they work for a company that is trying to avoid paying out discrimination lawsuits. Got it.


So the whole immigration thing is just a dog and pony show designed to rile up the idiotic, racist Trump base while he and his cronies steal the country blind, using illegal immigrant labor themselves.
If it makes you weep then it's ok with me. It's pure entertainment watching you clowns justify breaking the law. "That ones ok but this one isnt"

Dance chickens dance

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Post by ALPHAGRIZ1 »

Skjellyfetti wrote:Image
Oh now you sick bastards are picking on handicapped people?!

Disgusting!

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Post by CID1990 »

dbackjon wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
I pretty much explained the opposite if that, but I’ll help you out-

El Chapo was a priority, Jon. Cross birder drug kingpins are the top of the list

Passport forgers and employers of illegals in floor sweeping jobs are not

Law enforcement priorities are publicly driven, Jon. That’s you and me


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But the guys sweeping the floors, and wringing the necks for your Chik-fil-a sandwich are, especially if they work for a company that is trying to avoid paying out discrimination lawsuits. Got it.


So the whole immigration thing is just a dog and pony show designed to rile up the idiotic, racist Trump base while he and his cronies steal the country blind, using illegal immigrant labor themselves.
I'm not sure what it is you are trying to argue here -

I'm all for locking up people who hire illegal aliens. I am simply trying to put into layman's terms why it doesn't happen today

If that makes you mad, then I suggest you write to your Congresscritter and ask them to throw more money at law enforcement and focus on locking up scofflaw employers
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Post by Chizzang »

dbackjon wrote:
So the whole immigration thing is just a dog and pony show designed to rile up the idiotic, racist Trump base while he and his cronies steal the country blind, using illegal immigrant labor themselves.
That ^ is a stone cold fact...

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Post by CID1990 »

Chizzang wrote:
dbackjon wrote:
So the whole immigration thing is just a dog and pony show designed to rile up the idiotic, racist Trump base while he and his cronies steal the country blind, using illegal immigrant labor themselves.
That ^ is a stone cold fact...

:coffee:
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Post by GannonFan »

CID1990 wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
That ^ is a stone cold fact...

:coffee:
I'm not sure I know what you two old hens mean when you say "whole immigration thing"
It's like the term "common sense gun laws". Nobody likes to wade into the details, those don't make for the most retweeted tweets or the best memes. Details can't fit nicely into headline grabbing social media so they're left out. Besides, details are only helpful if you're looking for a solution - politics and partisans (like those two guys, but they have plenty of company on both sides of the aisle) today don't really care about solutions - party above all else. :ohno:
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Post by 89Hen »

BDKJMU wrote:
89Hen wrote: Illegals can have SSN's and drivers licenses. When we take a mortgage application we are required to ask if somebody is a citizen, but we are not required to ask for proof.
Not according to the SSA:
“..Generally, only noncitizens authorized to work in the United States by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) can get a Social Security number.”
https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10096.pdf
If an illegal produces a SS#, its highly likely stolen.
Course MD, DE are included in the 13 current states + DC where illegals can get DLs:
Image

Are you allowed to ask for proof?
Many illegals are folks who have stayed past their welcome, so yes, illegals can have SSN's.

No, we are not to ask for proof.
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Post by Pwns »

All you have to do is bring up the issue of H1B visas to get suburban liberal whites complaining about foreigners coming into the country and driving down wages and and taking people's jobs. But when Bubba and Jim complain about illegal Mexican immigrants they're bigots. Why? And on that note why is strong opposition to illegal immigration by black voters ignored? Are they a bunch of racist, xenophobic bigots too? Or is it that white liberals can afford to love it because their neighborhoods will have some distance to where poor immigrants live?

The idea that either party wants to make immigration work for America is laughable. Democrats just want more anchor babies and naturalizations to change the demographics in their favor and Republicans investor class donors want the labor.
We get the government we deserve. :nod:

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Post by 89Hen »

Skjellyfetti wrote:
89Hen wrote:When we take a mortgage application we are required to ask if somebody is a citizen, but we are not required to ask for proof.
Really? Does it affect the application negatively if the answer is no?
If they answer no, then we are required to get a copy of their Green Card if they are a Perm-Res or a copy of their work visa if they are Non-Perm. If the latter, they must then meet extra guidelines to make sure their stay is 3+ years.
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