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It was also something that all of them experienced. That’s where the comparison begins to bite, because insisting that sexual desire was beastly, horrid, filthy, etc. didn’t make it go away, or deprive it of its substantial role in motivating human behavior. It just meant that people got hypocritical about it. Some pretended that it wasn’t there. Some insisted that in certain sharply defined contexts—for example, within the bounds of legal marriage—it wasn’t the same, no, of course not, how could you suggest such a horrid thing? Some pursued any of the other dodges, and there were plenty of them, that allowed people to pretend that they weren’t getting sexually aroused and acting on their arousal when, in fact, that’s what they were doing.

That’s what happens whenever people decide that an ordinary human emotion is unacceptable and insist that good people don’t experience it. A culture of pretense, hypocrisy, and evasion springs up to allow them to vent the unacceptable emotion on some set of acceptable targets without admitting that they were doing so. That’s what emerged in Victorian society once people convinced themselves that sexual desire was the root of all evil, and it’s what has emerged in our time as people have convinced themselves that hate fills the same role. In a very real sense, these days, hate is the new sex.

If you have any doubts concerning this, dear reader, observe the way that the same people who were sporting LOVE TRUMPS HATE bumper stickers a year ago talk about Donald Trump and his supporters today. Back in January of 2016, when I first predicted Trump’s victory, I pointed out that if you wanted to hear really over-the-top hate speech, all you had to do was listen to a group of comfortably well-to-do Americans in the bicoastal urban bubble talk about white working class Americans in the flyover states. That’s become even more true now than it was then. Take the rhetoric currently being flung by well-off Democratic voters at Trump supporters, swap out the ethnic labels for any other set you choose, and you’ll have a hard time telling it apart from the rantings of any other group of bigots.

The class dimension of all this rhetoric about hate, by the way, is one of the most telling things about it. Back in the Victorian era, the privileged classes defined themselves as the Good People, the moral, virtuous, pure people, which in the language of the time meant the people who didn’t have sexual desires. They accordingly defined their social inferiors as beastly, horrid, filthy—that is to say, sexual beings. Nowadays, what defines the Good People has changed, but the class bigotry hasn’t; now the privileged people claim to be the ones who don’t hate, and define their social inferiors as hate-filled bigots. The relative behavior of the two groups, it bears repeating, does not exactly justify this claim.....

Gil Dobie wrote:Hate, like Sex has it's perverted side. And those people don't belong in public.

kalm wrote:

Gil Dobie wrote:Hate, like Sex has it's perverted side. And those people don't belong in public.

Define perverted.

Gil Dobie wrote:

kalm wrote:
Define perverted.

Adults having sex with children, animals, rape, are a few examples.

kalm wrote:Interesting read by John Michael Greer. Hate is like sex in the Victorian era and should be shunned. Except it's a natural part of the human condition and condemning it turns many into giant hypocrites.

Is hate ok?

It was also something that all of them experienced. That’s where the comparison begins to bite, because insisting that sexual desire was beastly, horrid, filthy, etc. didn’t make it go away, or deprive it of its substantial role in motivating human behavior. It just meant that people got hypocritical about it. Some pretended that it wasn’t there. Some insisted that in certain sharply defined contexts—for example, within the bounds of legal marriage—it wasn’t the same, no, of course not, how could you suggest such a horrid thing? Some pursued any of the other dodges, and there were plenty of them, that allowed people to pretend that they weren’t getting sexually aroused and acting on their arousal when, in fact, that’s what they were doing.

That’s what happens whenever people decide that an ordinary human emotion is unacceptable and insist that good people don’t experience it. A culture of pretense, hypocrisy, and evasion springs up to allow them to vent the unacceptable emotion on some set of acceptable targets without admitting that they were doing so. That’s what emerged in Victorian society once people convinced themselves that sexual desire was the root of all evil, and it’s what has emerged in our time as people have convinced themselves that hate fills the same role. In a very real sense, these days, hate is the new sex.

If you have any doubts concerning this, dear reader, observe the way that the same people who were sporting LOVE TRUMPS HATE bumper stickers a year ago talk about Donald Trump and his supporters today. Back in January of 2016, when I first predicted Trump’s victory, I pointed out that if you wanted to hear really over-the-top hate speech, all you had to do was listen to a group of comfortably well-to-do Americans in the bicoastal urban bubble talk about white working class Americans in the flyover states. That’s become even more true now than it was then. Take the rhetoric currently being flung by well-off Democratic voters at Trump supporters, swap out the ethnic labels for any other set you choose, and you’ll have a hard time telling it apart from the rantings of any other group of bigots.

The class dimension of all this rhetoric about hate, by the way, is one of the most telling things about it. Back in the Victorian era, the privileged classes defined themselves as the Good People, the moral, virtuous, pure people, which in the language of the time meant the people who didn’t have sexual desires. They accordingly defined their social inferiors as beastly, horrid, filthy—that is to say, sexual beings. Nowadays, what defines the Good People has changed, but the class bigotry hasn’t; now the privileged people claim to be the ones who don’t hate, and define their social inferiors as hate-filled bigots. The relative behavior of the two groups, it bears repeating, does not exactly justify this claim.....

http://www.ecosophia.net/hate-new-sex/

kalm wrote:

Gil Dobie wrote:
Adults having sex with children, animals, rape, are a few examples.

Sure. So not the Victorian view? Some hate is not perverted?

93henfan wrote: The part I bolded rings so true in my daily experience. I travel 90 miles from a red bastion to a blue bastion each day. From a zip code with a median household income of $45k to an area where the median household income is $110k.

I do NOT discuss politics at work, as outing yourself as a conservative, or worse a Trump voter, would be career suicide. I am not exaggerating. This is absolutely true; you'll just have to trust me.

The snide remarks I hear about those outside the DC bubble may me want to vomit, but again, I don't say a word.

I have an interesting moment coming up in a few weekends. A coworker (athletic female of the lesbian persuasion, not bad looking either) invited herself to crash at my pad when she comes to the beach for some running event. I have to sanitize my house before she gets there, and by "sanitize" I mean make it look like I'm a liberal ninny. Hide the guns, hide the hunting and NASCAR stuff, hide the Trump shit, coach the sons not to talk about politics ESPECIALLY WHO DAD VOTED FOR. Etc. Not a damn thing I can do about the neighbors and their Trump and NASCAR gear. I'll have to distract.

Oughta be a fun weekend!

93henfan wrote: I have an interesting moment coming up in a few weekends. A coworker (athletic female of the lesbian persuasion, not bad looking either) invited herself to crash at my pad when she comes to the beach for some running event. I have to sanitize my house before she gets there, and by "sanitize" I mean make it look like I'm a liberal ninny. Hide the guns, hide the hunting and NASCAR stuff, hide the Trump shit, coach the sons not to talk about politics ESPECIALLY WHO DAD VOTED FOR. Etc. Not a damn thing I can do about the neighbors and their Trump and NASCAR gear. I'll have to distract.

Oughta be a fun weekend!

AZGrizFan wrote:

93henfan wrote: I have an interesting moment coming up in a few weekends. A coworker (athletic female of the lesbian persuasion, not bad looking either) invited herself to crash at my pad when she comes to the beach for some running event. I have to sanitize my house before she gets there, and by "sanitize" I mean make it look like I'm a liberal ninny. Hide the guns, hide the hunting and NASCAR stuff, hide the Trump shit, coach the sons not to talk about politics ESPECIALLY WHO DAD VOTED FOR. Etc. Not a damn thing I can do about the neighbors and their Trump and NASCAR gear. I'll have to distract.

Oughta be a fun weekend!

You at least gonna get a BJ out of this deal?

93henfan wrote:

kalm wrote:Interesting read by John Michael Greer. Hate is like sex in the Victorian era and should be shunned. Except it's a natural part of the human condition and condemning it turns many into giant hypocrites.

Is hate ok?




http://www.ecosophia.net/hate-new-sex/

The part I bolded rings so true in my daily experience. I travel 90 miles from a red bastion to a blue bastion each day. From a zip code with a median household income of $45k to an area where the median household income is $110k.

I do NOT discuss politics at work, as outing yourself as a conservative, or worse a Trump voter, would be career suicide. I am not exaggerating. This is absolutely true; you'll just have to trust me.

The snide remarks I hear about those outside the DC bubble may me want to vomit, but again, I don't say a word.

I have an interesting moment coming up in a few weekends. A coworker (athletic female of the lesbian persuasion, not bad looking either) invited herself to crash at my pad when she comes to the beach for some running event. I have to sanitize my house before she gets there, and by "sanitize" I mean make it look like I'm a liberal ninny. Hide the guns, hide the hunting and NASCAR stuff, hide the Trump ****, coach the sons not to talk about politics ESPECIALLY WHO DAD VOTED FOR. Etc. Not a damn thing I can do about the neighbors and their Trump and NASCAR gear. I'll have to distract.

Oughta be a fun weekend!

Ivytalk wrote:

93henfan wrote:
The part I bolded rings so true in my daily experience. I travel 90 miles from a red bastion to a blue bastion each day. From a zip code with a median household income of $45k to an area where the median household income is $110k.

I do NOT discuss politics at work, as outing yourself as a conservative, or worse a Trump voter, would be career suicide. I am not exaggerating. This is absolutely true; you'll just have to trust me.

The snide remarks I hear about those outside the DC bubble may me want to vomit, but again, I don't say a word.

I have an interesting moment coming up in a few weekends. A coworker (athletic female of the lesbian persuasion, not bad looking either) invited herself to crash at my pad when she comes to the beach for some running event. I have to sanitize my house before she gets there, and by "sanitize" I mean make it look like I'm a liberal ninny. Hide the guns, hide the hunting and NASCAR stuff, hide the Trump ****, coach the sons not to talk about politics ESPECIALLY WHO DAD VOTED FOR. Etc. Not a damn thing I can do about the neighbors and their Trump and NASCAR gear. I'll have to distract.

Oughta be a fun weekend!

Why didn't you just tell the differently- oriented broad to sleep under the boardwalk?

CAA Flagship wrote:

Ivytalk wrote: Why didn't you just tell the differently- oriented broad to sleep under the boardwalk?

He has peephole cameras set up throughout the house.

93henfan wrote:

kalm wrote:Interesting read by John Michael Greer. Hate is like sex in the Victorian era and should be shunned. Except it's a natural part of the human condition and condemning it turns many into giant hypocrites.

Is hate ok?




http://www.ecosophia.net/hate-new-sex/

The part I bolded rings so true in my daily experience. I travel 90 miles from a red bastion to a blue bastion each day. From a zip code with a median household income of $45k to an area where the median household income is $110k.

I do NOT discuss politics at work, as outing yourself as a conservative, or worse a Trump voter, would be career suicide. I am not exaggerating. This is absolutely true; you'll just have to trust me.

The snide remarks I hear about those outside the DC bubble may me want to vomit, but again, I don't say a word.

I have an interesting moment coming up in a few weekends. A coworker (athletic female of the lesbian persuasion, not bad looking either) invited herself to crash at my pad when she comes to the beach for some running event. I have to sanitize my house before she gets there, and by "sanitize" I mean make it look like I'm a liberal ninny. Hide the guns, hide the hunting and NASCAR stuff, hide the Trump ****, coach the sons not to talk about politics ESPECIALLY WHO DAD VOTED FOR. Etc. Not a damn thing I can do about the neighbors and their Trump and NASCAR gear. I'll have to distract.

Oughta be a fun weekend!

93henfan wrote:

kalm wrote:Interesting read by John Michael Greer. Hate is like sex in the Victorian era and should be shunned. Except it's a natural part of the human condition and condemning it turns many into giant hypocrites.

Is hate ok?




http://www.ecosophia.net/hate-new-sex/

The part I bolded rings so true in my daily experience. I travel 90 miles from a red bastion to a blue bastion each day. From a zip code with a median household income of $45k to an area where the median household income is $110k.

I do NOT discuss politics at work, as outing yourself as a conservative, or worse a Trump voter, would be career suicide. I am not exaggerating. This is absolutely true; you'll just have to trust me.

The snide remarks I hear about those outside the DC bubble may me want to vomit, but again, I don't say a word.

I have an interesting moment coming up in a few weekends. A coworker (athletic female of the lesbian persuasion, not bad looking either) invited herself to crash at my pad when she comes to the beach for some running event. I have to sanitize my house before she gets there, and by "sanitize" I mean make it look like I'm a liberal ninny. Hide the guns, hide the hunting and NASCAR stuff, hide the Trump shit, coach the sons not to talk about politics ESPECIALLY WHO DAD VOTED FOR. Etc. Not a damn thing I can do about the neighbors and their Trump and NASCAR gear. I'll have to distract.

Oughta be a fun weekend!

93henfan wrote:

kalm wrote:Interesting read by John Michael Greer. Hate is like sex in the Victorian era and should be shunned. Except it's a natural part of the human condition and condemning it turns many into giant hypocrites.

Is hate ok?




http://www.ecosophia.net/hate-new-sex/

The part I bolded rings so true in my daily experience. I travel 90 miles from a red bastion to a blue bastion each day. From a zip code with a median household income of $45k to an area where the median household income is $110k.

I do NOT discuss politics at work, as outing yourself as a conservative, or worse a Trump voter, would be career suicide. I am not exaggerating. This is absolutely true; you'll just have to trust me.

The snide remarks I hear about those outside the DC bubble may me want to vomit, but again, I don't say a word.

I have an interesting moment coming up in a few weekends. A coworker (athletic female of the lesbian persuasion, not bad looking either) invited herself to crash at my pad when she comes to the beach for some running event. I have to sanitize my house before she gets there, and by "sanitize" I mean make it look like I'm a liberal ninny. Hide the guns, hide the hunting and NASCAR stuff, hide the Trump shit, coach the sons not to talk about politics ESPECIALLY WHO DAD VOTED FOR. Etc. Not a damn thing I can do about the neighbors and their Trump and NASCAR gear. I'll have to distract.

Oughta be a fun weekend!