JFK Files

[GannonFan]

So, what's the consensus of the new stuff that came out last night, and of course, of the fact that even with a 25 year warning, the CIA and FBI still hadn't gotten around to going over the documents and had to ask for another delay?

Hard not to believe there wasn't a conspiracy - all the evidence seems to point to Oswald not acting alone. Whether it was a group of the CIA that was involved (anger over the Bay of Pigs but also the South Vietemese assassination), or some other group in the government (I don't buy that it was Castro - I don't think Cuba had enough reach to do that - and I don't buy that the Soviets did it), and whether there was a second gunman, I don't doubt that there was at least a conspiracy. Heck, a lot of what's coming out now just builds the case that Oliver Stone made in "JFK".

[CID1990]

So, what's the consensus of the new stuff that came out last night, and of course, of the fact that even with a 25 year warning, the CIA and FBI still hadn't gotten around to going over the documents and had to ask for another delay?

Hard not to believe there wasn't a conspiracy - all the evidence seems to point to Oswald not acting alone. Whether it was a group of the CIA that was involved (anger over the Bay of Pigs but also the South Vietemese assassination), or some other group in the government (I don't buy that it was Castro - I don't think Cuba had enough reach to do that - and I don't buy that the Soviets did it), and whether there was a second gunman, I don't doubt that there was at least a conspiracy. Heck, a lot of what's coming out now just builds the case that Oliver Stone made in "JFK".

I don’t think the Diem assassination has anything to do with it at all. I’m not saying there aren’t things we don’t know, just that the whole Diem thing happened in something of a bubble- except the USG withdrawing support for him probably facilitated the killing

[GannonFan]

So, what's the consensus of the new stuff that came out last night, and of course, of the fact that even with a 25 year warning, the CIA and FBI still hadn't gotten around to going over the documents and had to ask for another delay?

Hard not to believe there wasn't a conspiracy - all the evidence seems to point to Oswald not acting alone. Whether it was a group of the CIA that was involved (anger over the Bay of Pigs but also the South Vietemese assassination), or some other group in the government (I don't buy that it was Castro - I don't think Cuba had enough reach to do that - and I don't buy that the Soviets did it), and whether there was a second gunman, I don't doubt that there was at least a conspiracy. Heck, a lot of what's coming out now just builds the case that Oliver Stone made in "JFK".

I don’t think the Diem assassination has anything to do with it at all. I’m not saying there aren’t things we don’t know, just that the whole Diem thing happened in something of a bubble- except the USG withdrawing support for him probably facilitated the killing

Only throwing it up there in the scenario that Diem was the CIA's "guy" - someone they could use and work with, and then when the US backed away from him and opened the government up there to a coup, potentially someone in the CIA could've been miffed over that. Same way that elements in the CIA were upset that their guys in the Bay of Pigs invasion were cut off.

[CID1990]

I don’t think the Diem assassination has anything to do with it at all. I’m not saying there aren’t things we don’t know, just that the whole Diem thing happened in something of a bubble- except the USG withdrawing support for him probably facilitated the killing

Only throwing it up there in the scenario that Diem was the CIA's "guy" - someone they could use and work with, and then when the US backed away from him and opened the government up there to a coup, potentially someone in the CIA could've been miffed over that. Same way that elements in the CIA were upset that their guys in the Bay of Pigs invasion were cut off.

That doesn’t set Diem apart from any of 100 other heads of state during that time. He was just high profile. Plus, the CIA doesn’t (and didn’t) work that way. They are much too compartmentalized. Besides, by the time he was killed, Diem had few to no allies in the agency. He was too much of a rogue

[GannonFan]

Only throwing it up there in the scenario that Diem was the CIA's "guy" - someone they could use and work with, and then when the US backed away from him and opened the government up there to a coup, potentially someone in the CIA could've been miffed over that. Same way that elements in the CIA were upset that their guys in the Bay of Pigs invasion were cut off.

That doesn’t set Diem apart from any of 100 other heads of state during that time. He was just high profile. Plus, the CIA doesn’t (and didn’t) work that way. They are much too compartmentalized. Besides, by the time he was killed, Diem had few to no allies in the agency. He was too much of a rogue

But it does fit into the narrative, at least, that the CIA was very active in inserting and removing heads of states elsewhere in the world, especially then. Wouldn't take a leap of imagination for one of those compartmentalized cells to think knocking off the US President could be an option too.

[Pwns]

That doesn’t set Diem apart from any of 100 other heads of state during that time. He was just high profile. Plus, the CIA doesn’t (and didn’t) work that way. They are much too compartmentalized. Besides, by the time he was killed, Diem had few to no allies in the agency. He was too much of a rogue

But it does fit into the narrative, at least, that the CIA was very active in inserting and removing heads of states elsewhere in the world, especially then. Wouldn't take a leap of imagination for one of those compartmentalized cells to think knocking off the US President could be an option too.

And the CIA had a relationship with organized crime which could be used to keep their fingerprints off of it. Why exactly did Jack Ruby go on a suicide mission to get rid of him, anyways?

[93henfan]

All I can offer is that I visited and walked the extent of Dealey Plaza and Book Depository when I went to the FCS NCG in Jan 2011. I stood in the crook of the picket fence over the grassy knoll and it just felt like the kill shot came from there and Oswald was a sideshow. Here are three pictures I took:

If I'm Oswald and NOT part of a multi-shooter scenario, I just take a really easy shot on Kennedy directly below me on Houston St:


If I know there's another shooter on the grassy knoll, that's the only reason I'd wait for the limo to take the turn onto Elm and not start shooting until it's going away from me and much farther away (the white car to the right of the traffic cones):


Here is where the logical kill shot would be set up. X marks the spot. Kennedy's head would look like a jumbo pumpkin from that close. Hide is in the shade with quick egress by the shooter into the parking lot and out to either of the major freeways that intersect right there:

[Jjoey52]

There is a TV series called JFK declassified, it followed all of Oswald’s movements. Bottom line they found Cuban involvement and that Oswald was headed for a safe house in Dallas when he shot the policeman. That caused him to go to the movie. If he had taken the bus to the safe house he could have gotten away.

Real interesting series with lots of detail, I know it can be seen on demand with Comcast, not sure of anywhere else.


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[GannonFan]

Agreed - especially when you consider the whole Warren Commission finding has to be held up on the crazy supposition that the magic bullet actually happened. Again, Oliver Stone had it right, once you have to factor in one more bullet, then it's clear that Oswald wasn't alone and then, by definition, you have a conspiracy. It's not like it had to be a big one, either. Get a group of motivated CIA trained guys with the right weapons and some insider information, and it was actually pretty easy. And the fact that the CIA and FBI can still, to this day, prevent the paperwork getting out on something that happened in 1963 is pretty amazing. I'm sure there's no real smoking gun (at least I hope there isn't) in the files - geez, if there's a memo that details exactly what happened and we're holding on to it then I wouldn't know what to say - but if they're still blocking stuff today clearly there was some bad stuff going on then, and frankly, most everyone thinks we (the US, via the CIA and FBI) were doing some bad stuff globally anyway.

[bandl]

"Oswald was a fag."

Name the movie.

[Ibanez]

"Oswald was a fag."

Name the movie.

The Usual Suspects


"Gutter is a tool!"

[bluehenbillk]

I agree Gannon Fan - one has to be pretty gullible to believe that Oswald did it & acted alone. Some part of the government was either directly involved in the assassination or has covered up the actions of another part for 54 years now.

What's the harm in releasing all the files & letting the truth out now? Everyone involved from the those times in '63 are either dead or in an old age home. Everyone knows Washington is corrupt & it's obviously just not Congress.

[bandl]

"Oswald was a fag."

Name the movie.

The Usual Suspects


"Gutter is a tool!"

PCU

"You can't sell horse tranquilizers to a midget!"

[houndawg]

But it does fit into the narrative, at least, that the CIA was very active in inserting and removing heads of states elsewhere in the world, especially then. Wouldn't take a leap of imagination for one of those compartmentalized cells to think knocking off the US President could be an option too.

And the CIA had a relationship with organized crime which could be used to keep their fingerprints off of it. Why exactly did Jack Ruby go on a suicide mission to get rid of him, anyways?

This here is, to me, the head scratcher.

[Jjoey52]

The guys who did the aforementioned JFK declassified are doing their next series on Jack Ruby. Looking forward to that one also.

Did anyone see JFK:The smoking Gun? The bottom line on this is that a Secret Service Agent (can’t recall name) was getting his gun out to shoot up at Oswald and accidentally shot Kennedy. They do have a film clip of the agent with a gun out there. This would also explain the cover up.


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[houndawg]

The guys who did the aforementioned JFK declassified are doing their next series on Jack Ruby. Looking forward to that one also.

Did anyone see JFK:The smoking Gun? The bottom line on this is that a Secret Service Agent (can’t recall name) was getting his gun out to shoot up at Oswald and accidentally shot Kennedy. They do have a film clip of the agent with a gun out there. This would also explain the cover up.


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[AZGrizFan]

I agree Gannon Fan - one has to be pretty gullible to believe that Oswald did it & acted alone. Some part of the government was either directly involved in the assassination or has covered up the actions of another part for 54 years now.

What's the harm in releasing all the files & letting the truth out now? Everyone involved from the those times in '63 are either dead or in an old age home. Everyone knows Washington is corrupt & it's obviously just not Congress.

BELIEVING the government is corrupt and having PROOF that elements inside our OWN government killed a sitting president are two vastly different things. If that, indeed was "the truth", I'm not sure this country survives that.

And I've stood in the 6th floor window like 93. I walked the route. I stood behind the fence. I've seen the video of Kennedy's head blasted BACKWARDS. There's no doubt there was a second shooter. No doubt.

[Jjoey52]

After seeing the detailed programs, my conclusion is Oswald acted alone as the gunman but had help on an escape route, which he failed to get to. Also, I mentioned about a Secret Service Agent accidentally shooting him while getting a weapon out to shoot up in the Depository. All this is well documented.


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[Chizzang]

Okay, this thread...TL/DR
So who shot JFK..?

[CID1990]

Okay, this thread...TL/DR
So who shot JFK..?

A rifle


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[houndawg]

Okay, this thread...TL/DR
So who shot JFK..?

A rifle


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guns don't kill people....

[houndawg]

After seeing the detailed programs, my conclusion is Oswald acted alone as the gunman but had help on an escape route, which he failed to get to. Also, I mentioned about a Secret Service Agent accidentally shooting him while getting a weapon out to shoot up in the Depository. All this is well documented.


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[Jjoey52]

After seeing the detailed programs, my conclusion is Oswald acted alone as the gunman but had help on an escape route, which he failed to get to. Also, I mentioned about a Secret Service Agent accidentally shooting him while getting a weapon out to shoot up in the Depository. All this is well documented.


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https://www.nbcnews.com/news/other/acci ... 2D11634276





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[93henfan]

Some interesting food for thought:

1. Lee Harvey Oswald allegedly used 6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano ammunition to kill JFK.

2. Casings found in book depository were traced to Western Cartridge and a batch sold to the US Marine Corps in 1954.

3. USMC had no weapons chambered in 6.5mm M-C in 1954.

4. So what agency of the USG were they really for?

Hmmmmm. Quick, fun read:

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg ... m%2006.pdf

[CAA Flagship]

"JFK blown away, what else to I have to say?"