Tax Bill is a loser

[CID1990]

I know I don't hold a popular view of this, but home costs are artificially and GROSSLY inflated. In the free market sense they are generally in ranged that the market will bear.

But at the end of the day, a pine frame covered in vinyl, sitting on a concrete slab is not worth $500,000, I don't care where it is.

But there's no way to fix it without destroying a significant part of the wealth in the country. It is artificial wealth, but we aren't the only country that accepts it


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[houndawg]

I know I don't hold a popular view of this, but home costs are artificially and GROSSLY inflated. In the free market sense they are generally in ranged that the market will bear.

But at the end of the day, a pine frame covered in vinyl, sitting on a concrete slab is not worth $500,000, I don't care where it is.

But there's no way to fix it without destroying a significant part of the wealth in the country. It is artificial wealth, but we aren't the only country that accepts it


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People need to feel like they have an investment in the system, something the new guys haven't figured out yet.

[houndawg]

The mortgage deduction will be the interesting thing. Economists almost generally say it's not money well spent - it inflates the value of homes, it encourages people to park money in homes that could be spent elsewhere, it exposes the economy to significant impacts when the housing market hits a downturn (2008), and it generally favors people with larger homes in higher income areas. And there aren't really that many countries that allow income taxes to be reduced based on housing loans - we're a bit of an outlier there. Of course, the crux of something like this is the suddenness of it - having this deduction go away overnight (well, from one year to the next) with little indication that it was going to happen is surely going to have an instantaneous drop in housing prices and will jack up the taxes on people who are heavily in debt to a house. It could very well be a painful experiment in tax policy as we see how the market reacts and corrects itself in this new reality.

Just want to be like the big boys...

[JohnStOnge]

I know I don't hold a popular view of this, but home costs are artificially and GROSSLY inflated. In the free market sense they are generally in ranged that the market will bear.

But at the end of the day, a pine frame covered in vinyl, sitting on a concrete slab is not worth $500,000, I don't care where it is.

I think that the value of something is established by how much someone is willing to pay for it. It's like diamond jewelry. Why on EARTH do people pay what they pay for diamond jewelry? What makes a diamond ring worth $5,000, $6,000, $10,000, $100,000, $1,000,000? Diamond rings have absolutely zero practical value.

Or a work of art. Like this painting sold for $110 million:



I wouldn't have paid 10 cents for that painting if I just looked at it. I've got better looking illustrations that my 5 year old grand daughter did under magnets on my refrigerator. But it was worth $110 million because someone was willing to pay that much for it.

If you put your house up for sale at a $500,000 asking price and people offer you the asking price or more your house is worth at least $500,000. It is what it is.

[SDHornet]

Housing prices are artificially inflated because demand is artificially inflated by loose lending demands. Too many people that have no business (and $$$) are being allowed to buy houses they can't afford again. I'm expecting another housing crash in the next four years...

...I'm also expecting so swoop up a few rentals shortly thereafter.

[Chizzang]

Housing prices are artificially inflated because demand is artificially inflated by loose lending demands. Too many people that have no business (and $$$) are being allowed to buy houses they can't afford again. I'm expecting another housing crash in the next four years...

...I'm also expecting so swoop up a few rentals shortly thereafter.

We rented our house in Palm Springs during Coachella...
6 days $9,500.00 of course that included the BMW 6 series convertible in the garage
Salt Water Pool and the worlds cutest Honduran maid service...

It's like printing money

[Chizzang]

Housing prices are artificially inflated because demand is artificially inflated by loose lending demands. Too many people that have no business (and $$$) are being allowed to buy houses they can't afford again. I'm expecting another housing crash in the next four years...

...I'm also expecting so swoop up a few rentals shortly thereafter.

We rented our house in Palm Springs during Coachella...
6 days $9,500.00 of course that included the BMW 6 series convertible in the garage
Salt Water Pool and the worlds cutest Honduran maid service...

It's like printing money

Of course the people that rented it were from Los Angeles - 90 minutes away...
The insanity is palpable

[CID1990]

Housing prices are artificially inflated because demand is artificially inflated by loose lending demands. Too many people that have no business (and $$$) are being allowed to buy houses they can't afford again. I'm expecting another housing crash in the next four years...

...I'm also expecting so swoop up a few rentals shortly thereafter.

We rented our house in Palm Springs during Coachella...
6 days $9,500.00 of course that included the BMW 6 series convertible in the garage
Salt Water Pool and the worlds cutest Honduran maid service...

It's like printing money

"world's cutest Honduran maid service" is not nearly contextual enough. You might as well say "world's least smelly owl poop"

[Ibanez]

I know I don't hold a popular view of this, but home costs are artificially and GROSSLY inflated. In the free market sense they are generally in ranged that the market will bear.

But at the end of the day, a pine frame covered in vinyl, sitting on a concrete slab is not worth $500,000, I don't care where it is.

I think that the value of something is established by how much someone is willing to pay for it.

Thank you, Adam Smith.

[CAA Flagship]

...I'm also expecting

Whew. I thought your sudden weight gain was a thyroid problem. Good to see it is only pregnancy.

[bandl]

...I'm also expecting

Whew. I thought your sudden weight gain was a thyroid problem. Good to see it is only pregnancy.

haha
boom
roast
suck it
SDH

[OL FU]

OK so I heard that the grandfathered current mortgages to keep the deduction. Any body else hear that? That is a good thing. I remember and watched working in the commercial real estate industry in the 80s when the first Tax reform bill incentivized commercial developers to construct buildings on the economics of tax shelters and then 4 years later ended that shelter. Wasn't fun watching the commercial real estate business tank for 5 years.

Personally, I am ok with the mortgage deduction going away. I am ok with the state and local tax deduction going away although I still think limiting double taxation is more appropriate so I would prefer for that to stay.

Truthfully, I think almost all deductions should go away (with the exception of family size). I have never thought the tax code should incentivize certain behaviors. But as I said before, It would be easier to swallow disappearing deductions if they were actually materially lowering the rates, which they aren't. And they can't not with a 20trillion plus debt.

[CAA Flagship]

I think I just heard that the Senate's version of the bill will be unveiled on Thursday.
Either that or the McRib is coming back on Thursday.
Something like that. I'm not sure.

[Rob Iola]

I think I just heard that the Senate's version of the bill will be unveiled on Thursday.
Either that or the McRib is coming back on Thursday.
Something like that. I'm not sure.

What about the KFC Double Down? Is that coming back on Thursday too?

[bandl]

I think I just heard that the Senate's version of the bill will be unveiled on Thursday.
Either that or the McRib is coming back on Thursday.
Something like that. I'm not sure.

What about the KFC Double Down? Is that coming back on Thursday too?

Either of you two seen the Peanut Butter Twix yet? Those fuckers have been hard to track down.

[CAA Flagship]

I think I just heard that the Senate's version of the bill will be unveiled on Thursday.
Either that or the McRib is coming back on Thursday.
Something like that. I'm not sure.

What about the KFC Double Down? Is that coming back on Thursday too?

No. That will be through you by Wednesday night.

[Ibanez]

What about the KFC Double Down? Is that coming back on Thursday too?

Either of you two seen the Peanut Butter Twix yet? Those fuckers have been hard to track down.

[CID1990]

And they can't not with a 20trillion plus debt.

THIS^^^^

This is why true fiscal conservatives are going to have the flimsiest tightrope to walk

Simply saying "cut taxes and spend less" isn't going to cut it anymore, because we're already in trouble with our debt

We've reached the point that fiscal hawks feared a long time ago - that now the only real remedy is higher taxes AND lower spending, which taken together are a political third rail

And the big spenders who whistle past the graveyard and think economic growth alone will absorb the debt are not going to accept austerity



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[AZGrizFan]

And they can't not with a 20trillion plus debt.

THIS^^^^

This is why true fiscal conservatives are going to have the flimsiest tightrope to walk

Simply saying "cut taxes and spend less" isn't going to cut it anymore, because we're already in trouble with our debt

We've reached the point that fiscal hawks feared a long time ago - that now the only real remedy is higher taxes AND lower spending, which taken together are a political third rail

And the big spenders who whistle past the graveyard and think economic growth alone will absorb the debt are not going to accept austerity



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Yep. Greece proved that "austerity" does NOT sell...

[Chizzang]

I think I just heard that the Senate's version of the bill will be unveiled on Thursday.
Either that or the McRib is coming back on Thursday.
Something like that. I'm not sure.

This entertained me...

in these troubled times

[Chizzang]

We rented our house in Palm Springs during Coachella...
6 days $9,500.00 of course that included the BMW 6 series convertible in the garage
Salt Water Pool and the worlds cutest Honduran maid service...

It's like printing money

"world's cutest Honduran maid service" is not nearly contextual enough. You might as well say "world's least smelly owl poop"

Also note:
I only own 15% of that house
and it's my brothers car

I'm really just a nobody - but the Honduran maid is fantastic
Long time family friend - She's having babies here in the USA like her vagina is a clown car

[Ivytalk]

"world's cutest Honduran maid service" is not nearly contextual enough. You might as well say "world's least smelly owl poop"

Also note:
I only own 15% of that house
and it's my brothers car

I'm really just a nobody - but the Honduran maid is fantastic
Long time family friend - She's having babies here in the USA like her vagina is a clown car

Has Schwarzenegger nailed her yet?

[SDHornet]

Whew. I thought your sudden weight gain was a thyroid problem. Good to see it is only pregnancy.

haha
boom
roast
suck it
SDH

Got me...got me good...

[CID1990]

"world's cutest Honduran maid service" is not nearly contextual enough. You might as well say "world's least smelly owl poop"

She's having babies here in the USA like her vagina is a clown car

Really- you didn't even have to disclose that

I assumed it

[bluehenbillk]

OK so I heard that the grandfathered current mortgages to keep the deduction. Any body else hear that? That is a good thing. I remember and watched working in the commercial real estate industry in the 80s when the first Tax reform bill incentivized commercial developers to construct buildings on the economics of tax shelters and then 4 years later ended that shelter. Wasn't fun watching the commercial real estate business tank for 5 years.

Personally, I am ok with the mortgage deduction going away. I am ok with the state and local tax deduction going away although I still think limiting double taxation is more appropriate so I would prefer for that to stay.

Truthfully, I think almost all deductions should go away (with the exception of family size). I have never thought the tax code should incentivize certain behaviors. But as I said before, It would be easier to swallow disappearing deductions if they were actually materially lowering the rates, which they aren't. And they can't not with a 20trillion plus debt.

I don't think they are grandfathering anything & unless it's a million-dollar plus home that was just bought it matters very little the way they're setting things up. They're removing/cutting so much that can be itemized under the current tax laws that 98- plus of the people that do itemize currently would no longer be doing so under the House introductory tax rollout and be taking the doubled standard deduction instead.