Roy Moore

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Re: Roy Moore

Postby 93henfan » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:18 am

Ibanez wrote:
kalm wrote:
Aside from Senate numbers it was also a battle ground in the primary between the alt right wing and establishment conks. Is Steve Bannon still king maker?

In the last few weeks of the general, it was a bit of a test to see if Trump's support carried any value.

:geek:

But this win didn't hand down a mandate or a crushing defeat. It was a narrow victory.


Not trying to lube dem cocks here, but let’s be honest: this was a crushing defeat for Republicans and a preview of 2018. The Republicans need to find a way to move Trump and get Pence in there mosh kosh.

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Re: Roy Moore

Postby Ibanez » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:23 am

93henfan wrote:
Ibanez wrote:But this win didn't hand down a mandate or a crushing defeat. It was a narrow victory.


Not trying to lube dem cocks here, but let’s be honest: this was a crushing defeat for Republicans and a preview of 2018. The Republicans need to find a way to move Trump and get Pence in there mosh kosh.

I can see that. I'm talking more of the stats - it was ~49-48. DJ won by a razor thin majority. What's sad is that there are men and women that in Alabama (every state really) that put party before country and would rather have a man that would assuredly be under investigation and a powerless senator than someone with a few contrary ideals.
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Re: Roy Moore

Postby CAA Flagship » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:45 am

Ibanez wrote:
93henfan wrote:
Not trying to lube dem cocks here, but let’s be honest: this was a crushing defeat for Republicans and a preview of 2018. The Republicans need to find a way to move Trump and get Pence in there mosh kosh.

I can see that. I'm talking more of the stats - it was ~49-48. DJ won by a razor thin majority. What's sad is that there are men and women that in Alabama (every state really) that put party before country and would rather have a man that would assuredly be under investigation and a powerless senator than someone with a few contrary ideals.

Party before country? I could argue that party is country, and that the Moore voters put party/country before morals.

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Re: Roy Moore

Postby Ibanez » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:49 am

CAA Flagship wrote:
Ibanez wrote:I can see that. I'm talking more of the stats - it was ~49-48. DJ won by a razor thin majority. What's sad is that there are men and women that in Alabama (every state really) that put party before country and would rather have a man that would assuredly be under investigation and a powerless senator than someone with a few contrary ideals.

Party before country? I could argue that party is country, and that the Moore voters put party/country before morals.

Party is country? Explain.
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Re: Roy Moore

Postby CAA Flagship » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:50 am

93henfan wrote:
Ibanez wrote:But this win didn't hand down a mandate or a crushing defeat. It was a narrow victory.


Not trying to lube dem cocks here, but let’s be honest: this was a crushing defeat for Republicans and a preview of 2018. The Republicans need to find a way to move Trump and get Pence in there mosh kosh.

I don't believe anything can be taken from this Special Election from a political standpoint. Every argument has a valid counter argument. The only one-sided factor is the misconduct allegations.

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Re: Roy Moore

Postby CAA Flagship » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:51 am

Ibanez wrote:
CAA Flagship wrote:Party before country? I could argue that party is country, and that the Moore voters put party/country before morals.

Party is country? Explain.

You vote for a party because you want the country to move in a direction opposite of the opposing party.

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Re: Roy Moore

Postby Ibanez » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:53 am

CAA Flagship wrote:
Ibanez wrote:Party is country? Explain.

You vote for a party because you want the country to move in a direction opposite of the opposing party.

You vote for what's in the best interest of the country - even if that means you're a Republican and vote Democrat.

And that's problem - too many Rs and Ds. Vote for the person and their character. That's less malleable than their politics, IMO. :twocents:
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Re: Roy Moore

Postby kalm » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:57 am

Ibanez wrote:
CAA Flagship wrote:You vote for a party because you want the country to move in a direction opposite of the opposing party.

You vote for what's in the best interest of the country - even if that means you're a Republican and vote Democrat.

And that's problem - too many Rs and Ds. Vote for the person and their character. That's less malleable than their politics, IMO. :twocents:


:ohno:
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Re: Roy Moore

Postby CAA Flagship » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:03 am

Ibanez wrote:
CAA Flagship wrote:You vote for a party because you want the country to move in a direction opposite of the opposing party.

You vote for what's in the best interest of the country - even if that means you're a Republican and vote Democrat.

And that's problem - too many Rs and Ds. Vote for the person and their character. That's less malleable than their politics, IMO. :twocents:

That's all well and good, but let's face it, nothing major gets done unless one party controls the WH and Congress. (Although the WH can pull some end runs with Executive Orders. Congress can't pull the same end runs.)
So you vote for a Prez that will push a certain agenda (and not veto certain Congressional actions), and you vote for Congressional candidates that will follow through with lawmaking that is to your liking.

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Re: Roy Moore

Postby Ibanez » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:06 am

kalm wrote:
Ibanez wrote:You vote for what's in the best interest of the country - even if that means you're a Republican and vote Democrat.

And that's problem - too many Rs and Ds. Vote for the person and their character. That's less malleable than their politics, IMO. :twocents:


:ohno:

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Re: Roy Moore

Postby Ibanez » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:07 am

CAA Flagship wrote:
Ibanez wrote:You vote for what's in the best interest of the country - even if that means you're a Republican and vote Democrat.

And that's problem - too many Rs and Ds. Vote for the person and their character. That's less malleable than their politics, IMO. :twocents:

That's all well and good, but let's face it, nothing major gets done unless one party controls the WH and Congress. (Although the WH can pull some end runs with Executive Orders. Congress can't pull the same end runs.)
So you vote for a Prez that will push a certain agenda (and not veto certain Congressional actions), and you vote for Congressional candidates that will follow through with lawmaking that is to your liking.

I know. Even then..it's a problem. Republicans hate it when Democrats do it and vice versa. Either way....nothing gets done. We get ****.
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Re: Roy Moore

Postby GannonFan » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:08 am

I don't think Trump has ever really had coattails for Republicans - people who voted for Trump voted for him because he was the middle finger to politics as usual - they didn't vote for Trump because they agreed with or loved the Republican party. On the contrary, Trump repeatedly and thoroughly dismissed the Republicans during the primaries and the general election. Heck, that's how a mouth-breather like JSO could get so hot and bothered that he actually became a huge Hillary supporter.

Long term, this is kinda neutral for the GOP and Dems. They now don't have to worry about how to handle Moore in the Senate if he had won the seat. There would've been pressure to censure or even refuse to seat Moore and there would've been ethics investigations well before he even got there. Now none of that happens. Franken is definitely gone now - no way can he back himself into office when even voters in Alabama voted not to send someone like Franken to the Senate. As for governing, 52-48 isn't very different from 51-49, especially with a handful of GOP Senators that were already retiring and were already running rouge from the party anyway. And there's only so much you can push through without needing 60 votes anyway. The GOP will get whatever tax bill they come up with, so that will happen. And after that, it will be business as usual in Washington, which means no business. Democrats have something like 25 Senate seats up for grabs versus a far lower number for the GOP. I think the Dems have a better chance of flipping the House than they do the Senate, and I don't think they flip that either. An election like this means that the GOP can run without regards to Trump - he's not winning races for them and he's just a GOP guy in name only - he's his own party. With no legislative things likely to happen, other than this tax bill, while Trump is on office, the only thing left is the SCOTUS, and if the GOP holds on to 50 seats (Pence tiebreak) they can put on whomever they want.

I don't see that anything has changed - a really divided electorate is still going to be very divided for quite awhile.
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Re: Roy Moore

Postby kalm » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:26 am

GannonFan wrote:I don't think Trump has ever really had coattails for Republicans - people who voted for Trump voted for him because he was the middle finger to politics as usual - they didn't vote for Trump because they agreed with or loved the Republican party. On the contrary, Trump repeatedly and thoroughly dismissed the Republicans during the primaries and the general election. Heck, that's how a mouth-breather like JSO could get so hot and bothered that he actually became a huge Hillary supporter.

Long term, this is kinda neutral for the GOP and Dems. They now don't have to worry about how to handle Moore in the Senate if he had won the seat. There would've been pressure to censure or even refuse to seat Moore and there would've been ethics investigations well before he even got there. Now none of that happens. Franken is definitely gone now - no way can he back himself into office when even voters in Alabama voted not to send someone like Franken to the Senate. As for governing, 52-48 isn't very different from 51-49, especially with a handful of GOP Senators that were already retiring and were already running rouge from the party anyway. And there's only so much you can push through without needing 60 votes anyway. The GOP will get whatever tax bill they come up with, so that will happen. And after that, it will be business as usual in Washington, which means no business. Democrats have something like 25 Senate seats up for grabs versus a far lower number for the GOP. I think the Dems have a better chance of flipping the House than they do the Senate, and I don't think they flip that either. An election like this means that the GOP can run without regards to Trump - he's not winning races for them and he's just a GOP guy in name only - he's his own party. With no legislative things likely to happen, other than this tax bill, while Trump is on office, the only thing left is the SCOTUS, and if the GOP holds on to 50 seats (Pence tiebreak) they can put on whomever they want.

I don't see that anything has changed - a really divided electorate is still going to be very divided for quite awhile.


Someone like Franken? Ugh. The accusations are significantly different and that distinction is important unless you want the act of consensual hugging to eventually be labeled sexual assault.
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Re: Roy Moore

Postby GannonFan » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:42 am

kalm wrote:
GannonFan wrote:I don't think Trump has ever really had coattails for Republicans - people who voted for Trump voted for him because he was the middle finger to politics as usual - they didn't vote for Trump because they agreed with or loved the Republican party. On the contrary, Trump repeatedly and thoroughly dismissed the Republicans during the primaries and the general election. Heck, that's how a mouth-breather like JSO could get so hot and bothered that he actually became a huge Hillary supporter.

Long term, this is kinda neutral for the GOP and Dems. They now don't have to worry about how to handle Moore in the Senate if he had won the seat. There would've been pressure to censure or even refuse to seat Moore and there would've been ethics investigations well before he even got there. Now none of that happens. Franken is definitely gone now - no way can he back himself into office when even voters in Alabama voted not to send someone like Franken to the Senate. As for governing, 52-48 isn't very different from 51-49, especially with a handful of GOP Senators that were already retiring and were already running rouge from the party anyway. And there's only so much you can push through without needing 60 votes anyway. The GOP will get whatever tax bill they come up with, so that will happen. And after that, it will be business as usual in Washington, which means no business. Democrats have something like 25 Senate seats up for grabs versus a far lower number for the GOP. I think the Dems have a better chance of flipping the House than they do the Senate, and I don't think they flip that either. An election like this means that the GOP can run without regards to Trump - he's not winning races for them and he's just a GOP guy in name only - he's his own party. With no legislative things likely to happen, other than this tax bill, while Trump is on office, the only thing left is the SCOTUS, and if the GOP holds on to 50 seats (Pence tiebreak) they can put on whomever they want.

I don't see that anything has changed - a really divided electorate is still going to be very divided for quite awhile.


Someone like Franken? Ugh. The accusations are significantly different and that distinction is important unless you want the act of consensual hugging to eventually be labeled sexual assault.


Eh, depends who you talk to. I hearken back to the women's study professor I have as a friend on Facebook so I feel "woke" with regards to the cutting edge. Franken's stuff he did clearly crossed the line into sexual assault - once you touch another body without permission it's assault. Granted, in Moore's case there were also accusations of pedophilia as well as assault on of age women, but as I see on my Facebook feed, assault is assault is assault. Franken=Moore=Trump=All the other guys who have been outed as sexual assaulters in the past few months. Or so says the women's studies folks.
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Re: Roy Moore

Postby kalm » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:54 am

GannonFan wrote:
kalm wrote:
Someone like Franken? Ugh. The accusations are significantly different and that distinction is important unless you want the act of consensual hugging to eventually be labeled sexual assault.


Eh, depends who you talk to. I hearken back to the women's study professor I have as a friend on Facebook so I feel "woke" with regards to the cutting edge. Franken's stuff he did clearly crossed the line into sexual assault - once you touch another body without permission it's assault. Granted, in Moore's case there were also accusations of pedophilia as well as assault on of age women, but as I see on my Facebook feed, assault is assault is assault. Franken=Moore=Trump=All the other guys who have been outed as sexual assaulters in the past few months. Or so says the women's studies folks.


It's not that black and white...at all. :roll: Sounds like toxic feminism...
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Re: Roy Moore

Postby GannonFan » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:56 am

kalm wrote:
GannonFan wrote:
Eh, depends who you talk to. I hearken back to the women's study professor I have as a friend on Facebook so I feel "woke" with regards to the cutting edge. Franken's stuff he did clearly crossed the line into sexual assault - once you touch another body without permission it's assault. Granted, in Moore's case there were also accusations of pedophilia as well as assault on of age women, but as I see on my Facebook feed, assault is assault is assault. Franken=Moore=Trump=All the other guys who have been outed as sexual assaulters in the past few months. Or so says the women's studies folks.


It's not that black and white...at all. :roll: Sounds like toxic feminism...


There is no such thing, the only thing toxic is masculinity. I believe that's her core finding - toxic masculinity is killing us. Especially white toxic masculinity. It's fascinating stuff.
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Re: Roy Moore

Postby dbackjon » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:08 am

GannonFan wrote:Good riddance. Moore was borderline detestable even before the sexual assault/harrassment stuff came out. The Jones guy is nothing special, but when offered two poor choices the worst choice was avoided in this case. In our politics today, it's often picking the less awful candidate. Yay politics.


Borderline?

Moore beliefs:

Homosexuality should be illegal (gays in jail)
Women should not vote or hold office
America was better when we had slavery
Slavery should still be legal
The Bible trumps the Constitution
The Constitution should be ignored when it goes against his version of Christianity
14-year old girls are fine to date when you are 32.


Jones is an excellent candidate - not a poor choice at all.
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Re: Roy Moore

Postby kalm » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:19 am

GannonFan wrote:
kalm wrote:
It's not that black and white...at all. :roll: Sounds like toxic feminism...


There is no such thing, the only thing toxic is masculinity. I believe that's her core finding - toxic masculinity is killing us. Especially white toxic masculinity. It's fascinating stuff.


That's a hilariously dumb and sexist statement...good lord.... :ohno:
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Re: Roy Moore

Postby GannonFan » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:23 am

kalm wrote:
GannonFan wrote:
There is no such thing, the only thing toxic is masculinity. I believe that's her core finding - toxic masculinity is killing us. Especially white toxic masculinity. It's fascinating stuff.


That's a hilariously dumb and sexist statement...good lord.... :ohno:


You're not woke and you're not checking your privilege. Toxic masculinity is the new buzz-phrase.
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Re: Roy Moore

Postby kalm » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:25 am

GannonFan wrote:
kalm wrote:
That's a hilariously dumb and sexist statement...good lord.... :ohno:


You're not woke and you're not checking your privilege. Toxic masculinity is the new buzz-phrase.


Why do you think I used the phrase "toxic feminism?".
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Re: Roy Moore

Postby GannonFan » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:29 am

dbackjon wrote:
GannonFan wrote:Good riddance. Moore was borderline detestable even before the sexual assault/harrassment stuff came out. The Jones guy is nothing special, but when offered two poor choices the worst choice was avoided in this case. In our politics today, it's often picking the less awful candidate. Yay politics.


Borderline?

Moore beliefs:

Homosexuality should be illegal (gays in jail)
Women should not vote or hold office
America was better when we had slavery
Slavery should still be legal
The Bible trumps the Constitution
The Constitution should be ignored when it goes against his version of Christianity
14-year old girls are fine to date when you are 32.


Jones is an excellent candidate - not a poor choice at all.


You realize that "borderline detestable" is not a positive comment, correct?
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Re: Roy Moore

Postby GannonFan » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:30 am

kalm wrote:
GannonFan wrote:
You're not woke and you're not checking your privilege. Toxic masculinity is the new buzz-phrase.


Why do you think I used the phrase "toxic feminism?".


Because you're from the Patriarchy and can't even begin to understand your own sexism and propagation of the Patriarchy.
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Re: Roy Moore

Postby kalm » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:35 am

GannonFan wrote:
kalm wrote:
Why do you think I used the phrase "toxic feminism?".


Because you're from the Patriarchy and can't even begin to understand your own sexism and propagation of the Patriarchy.


You've become quite good at this trolling thing... :lol:
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Re: Roy Moore

Postby OL FU » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:37 am

kalm wrote:
Ibanez wrote:Isn't that a precious sentiment.


That's a variation of "bless your heart" isn't it?

I'm starting to understand Southern now!


Well I do declare...that was funny as all get out ;)

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Re: Roy Moore

Postby GannonFan » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:41 am

kalm wrote:
GannonFan wrote:
Because you're from the Patriarchy and can't even begin to understand your own sexism and propagation of the Patriarchy.


You've become quite good at this trolling thing... :lol:


I don't even need to think this stuff up, it's all right there to just cut and paste over. Fascinating stuff.
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