WA Gov: ISP's Can Suck It

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Re: WA Gov: ISP's Can Suck It

Postby 89Hen » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:08 am

It's rather funny to see this whole thing getting folks in an uproar. They're coming to take away my internet. They're coming to take away my guns. There's always somebody coming to get my stuff. :lol:
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Re: WA Gov: ISP's Can Suck It

Postby Col Hogan » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:21 am

Grizalltheway wrote:
Col Hogan wrote:
And why are most ISPs monopolies?

Because broadband networks are really expensive to build and the big boys already have theirs in place thanks to taxpayers?


Or thanks to local governments granting them monopoly status to shut out any competition???
“Tolerance and Apathy are the last virtues of a dying society.” Aristotle

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Re: WA Gov: ISP's Can Suck It

Postby Ibanez » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:13 am

Col Hogan wrote:
Vidav wrote:
I really don't think you understand the issue. It seems you are repeating nonsense said by people paid off by the ISPs.

Be honest, do you think you should have to pay more to access Netflix at high speeds? Or should the speed provided by ISPs be the same for each service?

A lot of republicans are arguing that this would foster competition and allow people to choose new ISPs that don't throttle their preferred sites. The problem is there are very few ISPs to choose from in most areas of the US. There simply isn't the competition to choose from.


Wow...you just really convinced me how stupid I must be...I'm joining some friends and preparing for the end-time right away...



And as Baldy so accurately pointed out, it's local government that is throttling ISP growth...not state or local government...

Let competition come in at the local level, and see what happens...it's happening with electricity...I have a number of companies that I can purchase power from...competition is lowering the cost of a kilowatt...don't you think competition can lower cable/ISP costs???

THe debate is two-fold. You're focused on access to more ISPs. I think the made issue with the repeal of the regulations is about what your ISP will allow you to access and the speed(or cost) at which you can access it?

We have Comporium here and it's a monopoly. Spectrum is based outta Charlotte...10 miles away and we can't get it. HOWEVER I can go to CNN, Democratic Underground, InfoWars of Fox News with no problem b/c of Net Neutrality.

The theory, is that now that the net isn't neutral, I might not have access to something the ISP doesn't like. CNN might load faster than Fox News. That's the debate, as far as I understand it.
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Re: RE: Re: WA Gov: ISP's Can Suck It

Postby ALPHAGRIZ1 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:53 am

Col Hogan wrote:
dbackjon wrote:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Wow, the ignorance is showing.

Net Neutrality is the government making sure equal access. Since most ISP's are monopolies, or near monopolies, the free market does not work.

Man you have drunk the Trumpkoolaid hard.


And why are most ISPs monopolies?
Because Obama told him that.........and because Trump is a racist and stuff

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Re: WA Gov: ISP's Can Suck It

Postby Baldy » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:21 pm

Grizalltheway wrote:
Baldy wrote:http://www.msnbc.com/ali-velshi/watch/former-fcc-commissioner-defends-net-neutrality-repeal-1116899907726

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The poor MSNBC guy got pwned and he knew there was nothing he could do about it. :rofl:

I bet you'll change your tune when GSU's Tuesday night game against South Alabama starts buffering every 10 seconds. :nod:

Bitch, please. I'll be at the game. :tothehand:

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Re: WA Gov: ISP's Can Suck It

Postby kalm » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:59 pm

89Hen wrote:It's rather funny to see this whole thing getting folks in an uproar. They're coming to take away my internet. They're coming to take away my guns. There's always somebody coming to get my stuff. :lol:


Is there someone here claiming they're going to take away the internet? You must have a Pai level understanding of the argument..




I'm sure this is reassuring to the simpletons tho. :lol:
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Re: WA Gov: ISP's Can Suck It

Postby Baldy » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:05 pm

kalm wrote:
89Hen wrote:It's rather funny to see this whole thing getting folks in an uproar. They're coming to take away my internet. They're coming to take away my guns. There's always somebody coming to get my stuff. :lol:


Is there someone here claiming they're going to take away the internet? You must have a Pai level understanding of the argument..




I'm sure this is reassuring to the simpletons tho. :lol:

The only people who can take the internet away is the government, so there's that. :coffee:

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Re: WA Gov: ISP's Can Suck It

Postby SDHornet » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:48 pm

Baldy wrote:http://www.msnbc.com/ali-velshi/watch/former-fcc-commissioner-defends-net-neutrality-repeal-1116899907726

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The poor MSNBC guy got pwned and he knew there was nothing he could do about it. :rofl:

I was going to take the Gannon route and fence ride this issue...all while in the back of my mind I couldn't quite figure out what was wrong with the internets pre-legislation in Feb 2015...something the leftists don't mention on this topic...then Baldy's post/MSM interview (Baldy is crushing this thread for those keeping score) pushed me into the "over turn crappy legislation" camp.

I also agree with some of what chizzy said regarding this as an anti-Obama - pro-Trump sentiment...then again a lot of crappy legislation was passed under Obama so there's that.

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Re: WA Gov: ISP's Can Suck It

Postby Chizzang » Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:10 am

Can someone show me an example in our country
Of a private entity with complete unregulated control of a public utility..?

Just give me one example of that anywhere
Where some Electric Company has full unregulated control of the infrastructure they manage..?

I'll be right here...
Take your time

And if you're going to tell me it's NOT a public utility
then why did American citizens pay for it's build out
and continue to pay for it's build out to this day

We built it - we own it - and it should be properly regulated with oversight
It's pretty simple really, a for profit corporation does not get to "self regulate" it's entire industry

That can't happen, not now or ever
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Re: WA Gov: ISP's Can Suck It

Postby Col Hogan » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:17 am

Chizzang wrote:Can someone show me an example in our country
Of a private entity with complete unregulated control of a public utility..?

Just give me one example of that anywhere
Where some Electric Company has full unregulated control of the infrastructure they manage..?

I'll be right here...
Take your time

And if you're going to tell me it's NOT a public utility
then why did American citizens pay for it's build out
and continue to pay for it's build out to this day

We built it - we own it - and it should be properly regulated with oversight
It's pretty simple really, a for profit corporation does not get to "self regulate" it's entire industry

That can't happen, not now or ever


Not ever? Until 2015, your alleged “public utility” hummed along very nicely...in fact, it was considered the engine for numerous success stories...

What happened in 2015 to suddenly require this oversight?

I’ll be right here...
“Tolerance and Apathy are the last virtues of a dying society.” Aristotle

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

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Re: WA Gov: ISP's Can Suck It

Postby kalm » Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:22 am

Col Hogan wrote:
Chizzang wrote:Can someone show me an example in our country
Of a private entity with complete unregulated control of a public utility..?

Just give me one example of that anywhere
Where some Electric Company has full unregulated control of the infrastructure they manage..?

I'll be right here...
Take your time

And if you're going to tell me it's NOT a public utility
then why did American citizens pay for it's build out
and continue to pay for it's build out to this day

We built it - we own it - and it should be properly regulated with oversight
It's pretty simple really, a for profit corporation does not get to "self regulate" it's entire industry

That can't happen, not now or ever


Not ever? Until 2015, your alleged “public utility” hummed along very nicely...in fact, it was considered the engine for numerous success stories...

What happened in 2015 to suddenly require this oversight?

I’ll be right here...


Right. Nothing happened with this debate and rule making prior to 2015. :lol:
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Re: WA Gov: ISP's Can Suck It

Postby Col Hogan » Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:57 am

kalm wrote:
Col Hogan wrote:
Not ever? Until 2015, your alleged “public utility” hummed along very nicely...in fact, it was considered the engine for numerous success stories...

What happened in 2015 to suddenly require this oversight?

I’ll be right here...


Right. Nothing happened with this debate and rule making prior to 2015. :lol:


What happened??? I’m asking, but all you are doing is laughing...
“Tolerance and Apathy are the last virtues of a dying society.” Aristotle

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Re: WA Gov: ISP's Can Suck It

Postby kalm » Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:37 am

Col Hogan wrote:
kalm wrote:
Right. Nothing happened with this debate and rule making prior to 2015. :lol:


What happened??? I’m asking, but all you are doing is laughing...


There has been a debate regarding whether or not the internet is a utility and rule setting by the FCC going back to the 90's. Some of it has been litigated. 2015 enshrined protections that were already being used. Remember, Tom Wheeler (FCC head and former telecom exec) was opposed to net neutrality but there was overwhelming public comment and support for it.
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Re: WA Gov: ISP's Can Suck It

Postby Col Hogan » Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:50 am

kalm wrote:
Col Hogan wrote:
What happened??? I’m asking, but all you are doing is laughing...


There has been a debate regarding whether or not the internet is a utility and rule setting by the FCC going back to the 90's. Some of it has been litigated. 2015 enshrined protections that were already being used. Remember, Tom Wheeler (FCC head and former telecom exec) was opposed to net neutrality but there was overwhelming public comment and support for it.


But what happened that made it necessary...I am of the opinion that the public does not know much if anything about the internet and ISPs and the support came from those who wanted more regulations wailing that the sky could fall if the internet wasn’t regulated...

My background comes from a Communications degree studying the early creation of cable TV and the excess regulation given to local governments that stifled the growth of numerous providers and eventually led to the few huge providers we see today...
“Tolerance and Apathy are the last virtues of a dying society.” Aristotle

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

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Re: WA Gov: ISP's Can Suck It

Postby kalm » Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:05 am

Col Hogan wrote:
kalm wrote:
There has been a debate regarding whether or not the internet is a utility and rule setting by the FCC going back to the 90's. Some of it has been litigated. 2015 enshrined protections that were already being used. Remember, Tom Wheeler (FCC head and former telecom exec) was opposed to net neutrality but there was overwhelming public comment and support for it.


But what happened that made it necessary...I am of the opinion that the public does not know much if anything about the internet and ISPs and the support came from those who wanted more regulations wailing that the sky could fall if the internet wasn’t regulated...

My background comes from a Communications degree studying the early creation of cable TV and the excess regulation given to local governments that stifled the growth of numerous providers and eventually led to the few huge providers we see today...


For one, Comcast and other ISP's were slowing down or blocking BitTorrent and other file sharing protocols.
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Re: WA Gov: ISP's Can Suck It

Postby Baldy » Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:17 am

kalm wrote:
Col Hogan wrote:
But what happened that made it necessary...I am of the opinion that the public does not know much if anything about the internet and ISPs and the support came from those who wanted more regulations wailing that the sky could fall if the internet wasn’t regulated...

My background comes from a Communications degree studying the early creation of cable TV and the excess regulation given to local governments that stifled the growth of numerous providers and eventually led to the few huge providers we see today...


For one, Comcast and other ISP's were slowing down or blocking BitTorrent and other file sharing protocols.

Yes, and the FCC issued a Cease & Desist order. They also required Comcast to disclose to it's customers how it plans to manage traffic int he future.

See, the system worked perfectly fine without the required "net neutrality" government oversight. :thumb:

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Re: WA Gov: ISP's Can Suck It

Postby Col Hogan » Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:24 am

Baldy wrote:
kalm wrote:
For one, Comcast and other ISP's were slowing down or blocking BitTorrent and other file sharing protocols.

Yes, and the FCC issued a Cease & Desist order. They also required Comcast to disclose to it's customers how it plans to manage traffic int he future.

See, the system worked perfectly fine without the required "net neutrality" government oversight. :thumb:


Which made the 2015 Obama-era rules smack of Prior Restraint...I know of no known damage that the existing system could not handle...it was a case of “well, it could happen...”
“Tolerance and Apathy are the last virtues of a dying society.” Aristotle

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Re: WA Gov: ISP's Can Suck It

Postby kalm » Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:35 am

Col Hogan wrote:
Baldy wrote:Yes, and the FCC issued a Cease & Desist order. They also required Comcast to disclose to it's customers how it plans to manage traffic int he future.

See, the system worked perfectly fine without the required "net neutrality" government oversight. :thumb:


Which made the 2015 Obama-era rules smack of Prior Restraint...I know of no known damage that the existing system could not handle...it was a case of “well, it could happen...”


Of course it could happen, the ISP's have been testing the regulatory powers of the FCC all along.

So it WILL happen, and why wouldn't it? As a business owner I want nothing more than to reduce competition and regulation. If I have the resources to fight, I'm going to finance candidates, media outlets, and think tanks to support my "rights" and stack the regulatory agencies with like minded people. It would be bad business to not.

(Sounds eerily similar to banking and finance... :lol: )

Remember when conks used to be for competition? :coffee:
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Re: WA Gov: ISP's Can Suck It

Postby Col Hogan » Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:46 am

kalm wrote:
Col Hogan wrote:
Which made the 2015 Obama-era rules smack of Prior Restraint...I know of no known damage that the existing system could not handle...it was a case of “well, it could happen...”


Of course it could happen, the ISP's have been testing the regulatory powers of the FCC all along.

So it WILL happen, and why wouldn't it? As a business owner I want nothing more than to reduce competition and regulation. If I have the resources to fight, I'm going to finance candidates, media outlets, and think tanks to support my "rights" and stack the regulatory agencies with like minded people. It would be bad business to not.

(Sounds eerily similar to banking and finance... :lol: )

Remember when conks used to be for competition? :coffee:


I’m all for competition...I’d like to see the FCC eliminate the rules that give city and town councils massive control to eliminate competition...

Like the rules that opened the electricity market (public utilities) to competition...I have about six different options when it comes to purchasing electricity...the states protect the public by keeping rate hikes in check, but the competition usually keeps costs down...

If Comcast, for example, had to compete FAIRLY with Kalm’s ISPsAreUs, for example, the costs and services could fall...allow Hogan & Sons ISP INC into the same market, and you’ll see more competition...

But that hasn’t been allowed...thus, the lousy rate cards you see from Comcast, etc...
“Tolerance and Apathy are the last virtues of a dying society.” Aristotle

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Re: WA Gov: ISP's Can Suck It

Postby Baldy » Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:41 am

kalm wrote:
Col Hogan wrote:
Which made the 2015 Obama-era rules smack of Prior Restraint...I know of no known damage that the existing system could not handle...it was a case of “well, it could happen...”


Of course it could happen, the ISP's have been testing the regulatory powers of the FCC all along.

So it WILL happen, and why wouldn't it? As a business owner I want nothing more than to reduce competition and regulation. If I have the resources to fight, I'm going to finance candidates, media outlets, and think tanks to support my "rights" and stack the regulatory agencies with like minded people. It would be bad business to not.

(Sounds eerily similar to banking and finance... :lol: )

Remember when conks used to be for competition? :coffee:


:?

And making the internet a public utility increases competition?
Really?
Please explain how.

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Re: WA Gov: ISP's Can Suck It

Postby kalm » Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:47 am

Baldy wrote:
kalm wrote:
Of course it could happen, the ISP's have been testing the regulatory powers of the FCC all along.

So it WILL happen, and why wouldn't it? As a business owner I want nothing more than to reduce competition and regulation. If I have the resources to fight, I'm going to finance candidates, media outlets, and think tanks to support my "rights" and stack the regulatory agencies with like minded people. It would be bad business to not.

(Sounds eerily similar to banking and finance... :lol: )

Remember when conks used to be for competition? :coffee:


:?

And making the internet a public utility increases competition?
Really?
Please explain how.


I don't think you make it a utility, but it should be regulated similar to a utility from an access and monopolistic standpoint. Government owned utilities are some of the worst utilities around and also lack regulation in certain instances... :ohno:
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Re: WA Gov: ISP's Can Suck It

Postby Baldy » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:49 pm

kalm wrote:
Baldy wrote:
:?

And making the internet a public utility increases competition?
Really?
Please explain how.


I don't think you make it a utility, but it should be regulated similar to a utility from an access and monopolistic standpoint. Government owned utilities are some of the worst utilities around and also lack regulation in certain instances... :ohno:

You do realize that when the FCC voted for net neutrality in 2015, it made it a public utility, don't you?

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Re: WA Gov: ISP's Can Suck It

Postby kalm » Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:20 pm

Baldy wrote:
kalm wrote:
I don't think you make it a utility, but it should be regulated similar to a utility from an access and monopolistic standpoint. Government owned utilities are some of the worst utilities around and also lack regulation in certain instances... :ohno:

You do realize that when the FCC voted for net neutrality in 2015, it made it a public utility, don't you?


A public utility with private ownership. Yes. I should have designated ownership. And due to the monopolistic nature of utilities and the importance to things like news and commerce, it should require greater scrutiny.
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Re: WA Gov: ISP's Can Suck It

Postby Chizzang » Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:03 pm

Baldy wrote:
kalm wrote:
Of course it could happen, the ISP's have been testing the regulatory powers of the FCC all along.

So it WILL happen, and why wouldn't it? As a business owner I want nothing more than to reduce competition and regulation. If I have the resources to fight, I'm going to finance candidates, media outlets, and think tanks to support my "rights" and stack the regulatory agencies with like minded people. It would be bad business to not.

(Sounds eerily similar to banking and finance... :lol: )

Remember when conks used to be for competition? :coffee:


:?

And making the internet a public utility increases competition?
Really?
Please explain how.


Making the American Broadband Infrastructure
Comcast's personal private dictatorship sure as hell won't increase competition that is for sure

Handing Comcast the keys to put Netflix OUT OF BUSINESS is pretty much what triggered the debate
Comcast already showed they were more than willing to flat out turn off Netflix streaming bandwidth

:nod:

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Re: WA Gov: ISP's Can Suck It

Postby Chizzang » Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:07 pm

Col Hogan wrote:But what happened that made it necessary...I am of the opinion that the public does not know much if anything about the internet and ISPs and the support came from those who wanted more regulations wailing that the sky could fall if the internet wasn’t regulated...

My background comes from a Communications degree studying the early creation of cable TV and the excess regulation given to local governments that stifled the growth of numerous providers and eventually led to the few huge providers we see today...


Col,
That entire statement is basically (at it's core) untrue
Cable companies in the mid 90s ran roughshod over their competitors by controlling legislation
They almost put Direct TV and Satellite out of business
I'll explain it in great detail if you're willing to read it

This is one area where I know exactly how we got to where we are today
I worked in the Broadband industry during it's consolidation and tax payer funded build out
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