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https://slate.com/news-and-politics/201 ... -olds.html

Saw this column on slate. The basic argument is basically the same thing I've seen here that more voters means strong democracy.

I mean, if the quantity of voters is more important than the quality and there's no implied responsibility to be minimally informed then is there any good reason to even have a voting age?

The same people who want children to be able to vote also don’t believe children are smart enough to read the owner’s manual on a firearm until they are 21.

I'm a strong proponent of raising the minimum voting age to 30. This allows enough time to "experience" the effects of politics on your life. And by politics, I mean economics.

If everybody in this country voted we'd be completely socialist in 4 years

This is probably the last President we'll ever have like this..
From here on out we're getting Full Scale Socialists disguised as Moderates
who will surrender the coffers to the masses for the betterment of no one in particular

I'm not kidding...
Incorporate of Die
(take that as a warning)
because being a Private Citizen will be death by taxation

Chizzang wrote:If everybody in this country voted we'd be completely socialist in 4 years

This is probably the last President we'll ever have like this..
From here on out we're getting Full Scale Socialists disguised as Moderates
who will surrender the coffers to the masses for the betterment of no one in particular

I'm not kidding...
[/b]Incorporate of Die [/b]
(take that as a warning)
because being a Private Citizen will be death by taxation

You mean “or,” don’t you? And don’t even think that the state lacks the power to conceive of new ways of taxing business entities. We’re already seeing concerted efforts to identify publicly the owners of LLCs.

Cue klam with a Citizens United sidelong reference

I think teenagers (and felons) should have a say in a democracy. We should value the opinions of young people because regardless of life experience, they bring a new perspective to the table.

∞∞∞ wrote:I think teenagers (and felons) should have a say in a democracy. We should value the opinions of young people because regardless of life experience, they bring a new perspective to the table.

DC is currently working on legislation to bring down the voting age to sixteen for the 2020 elections.

I'm not saying 18 yr olds are any more mature than 16 yr olds - but what's the logic? Why not 10 or 12 yr olds?

Ibanez wrote:

∞∞∞ wrote:I think teenagers (and felons) should have a say in a democracy. We should value the opinions of young people because regardless of life experience, they bring a new perspective to the table.

DC is currently working on legislation to bring down the voting age to sixteen for the 2020 elections.

I'm not saying 18 yr olds are any more mature than 16 yr olds - but what's the logic? Why not 10 or 12 yr olds?

Mental capacities to analyze and judge information, as well as the ability to work full-time jobs in most states and contribute economically. Obviously not all 16 year-olds have that capacity, but neither do many full grown adults. It's a good compromise.

That said, the draft age should be lowered to 16 at the same time (non-combat roles until they turn 18). Not that I think we'll need it, but there should be a responsibility to serve your nation if the necessity arises.

Ivytalk wrote:

Chizzang wrote:If everybody in this country voted we'd be completely socialist in 4 years

This is probably the last President we'll ever have like this..
From here on out we're getting Full Scale Socialists disguised as Moderates
who will surrender the coffers to the masses for the betterment of no one in particular

I'm not kidding...
[/b]Incorporate of Die [/b]
(take that as a warning)
because being a Private Citizen will be death by taxation

You mean “or,” don’t you? And don’t even think that the state lacks the power to conceive of new ways of taxing business entities. We’re already seeing concerted efforts to identify publicly the owners of LLCs.

Yes Sir,
Incorporate or Die

Agreed, they will figure out a way to tax it (Whatever "It" is)
but it is the last bastion of hope

Chizzang wrote:If everybody in this country voted we'd be completely socialist in 4 years

This is probably the last President we'll ever have like this..
From here on out we're getting Full Scale Socialists disguised as Moderates
who will surrender the coffers to the masses for the betterment of no one in particular

I'm not kidding...
Incorporate of Die
(take that as a warning)
because being a Private Citizen will be death by taxation

You are absolutely correct. Flagship and I had this discussion on the phone a few weeks back.

∞∞∞ wrote:I think teenagers (and felons) should have a say in a democracy. We should value the opinions of young people because regardless of life experience, they bring a new perspective to the table.

Yikes.

This is where we are headed folks. He has millions who think just like him.

We’re fucked.

Where was the thread about getting out before the mud people run things? Emigration is the ticket. Let them all kill each other.

gg USA. We had a good run.

93henfan wrote:

∞∞∞ wrote:I think teenagers (and felons) should have a say in a democracy. We should value the opinions of young people because regardless of life experience, they bring a new perspective to the table.

Yikes.

This is where we are headed folks. He has millions who think just like him.

We’re ****.

Where was the thread about getting out before the mud people run things? Emigration is the ticket. Let them all kill each other.

gg USA. We had a good run.

We survived (barely) the Baby Boomers, I think we can survive the generation that the Baby Boomers largely parented, i.e. the Millenials. It could be touch and go, clearly, but we'll come out okay on the other side.

GannonFan wrote:

93henfan wrote:
Yikes.

This is where we are headed folks. He has millions who think just like him.

We’re ****.

Where was the thread about getting out before the mud people run things? Emigration is the ticket. Let them all kill each other.

gg USA. We had a good run.

We survived (barely) the Baby Boomers, I think we can survive the generation that the Baby Boomers largely parented, i.e. the Millenials. It could be touch and go, clearly, but we'll come out okay on the other side.

If you enjoy socialism.

∞∞∞ wrote:I think teenagers (and felons) should have a say in a democracy. We should value the opinions of young people because regardless of life experience, they bring a new perspective to the table.

Teenagers are very good at having opinions and perspectives. The problem is that those opinions are usually uninformed and perspectives skewed.

Teenagers are also more emotional than adults, because the rational side of the brain develops at a slower rate than the emotional side. The brain doesn't reach maximum development until around age 25.

Perhaps we should raise the voting age to 25.

93henfan wrote:

GannonFan wrote:
We survived (barely) the Baby Boomers, I think we can survive the generation that the Baby Boomers largely parented, i.e. the Millenials. It could be touch and go, clearly, but we'll come out okay on the other side.

If you enjoy socialism.

We need a real war.

93henfan wrote:

GannonFan wrote:
We survived (barely) the Baby Boomers, I think we can survive the generation that the Baby Boomers largely parented, i.e. the Millenials. It could be touch and go, clearly, but we'll come out okay on the other side.

If you enjoy socialism.

We watched older people essentially loot this nation and shower themselves with borrowed wealth from future generations. The Boomers (aka. "Me" generation) will probably go down in American history as the largest re-distributors of wealth. Boomers are just socialist pretending to be capitalists.

∞∞∞ wrote:

93henfan wrote:
If you enjoy socialism.

We watched older people essentially loot this nation and shower themselves with borrowed wealth from future generations. The Boomers (aka. "Me" generation) will probably go down in American history as the largest re-distributors of wealth. Boomers are just socialist pretending to be capitalists.

Please explain to me how I am showing myself with borrowed wealth from future generations?

∞∞∞ wrote:I think teenagers (and felons) should have a say in a democracy. We should value the opinions of young people because regardless of life experience, they bring a new perspective to the table.

Go for it. But since the USA is not a democracy it won't matter here.

Gil Dobie wrote:

∞∞∞ wrote: We watched older people essentially loot this nation and shower themselves with borrowed wealth from future generations. The Boomers (aka. "Me" generation) will probably go down in American history as the largest re-distributors of wealth. Boomers are just socialist pretending to be capitalists.

Please explain to me how I am showing myself with borrowed wealth from future generations?

A few examples as a GENERATION (not individually):

-Eliminated and reduced salaries, work benefits, etc. in the workforce. Obliterated unions which helped drive down benefits available to workers.
-Bought more properties than needed and rented them at ridiculous costs to younger people.
-Voted in politicians who seek to eliminate/reduce the social safety nets and other benefits they benefited from.
-Looted the treasury for massive tax giveaways and now they're running up the national credit card (at exactly the wrong time)...sticking their kids, grandchildren and future generations with the bill.
-Somehow decide the 2007-08 financial crash was because things are too regulated.
-Eliminated the financial regulations designed to prevent a depression (and inequality of the Gilded Age).
-Insist to your kids, who are crippled by student debt, but whom are chastised for not having a home or kids yet, that they just don't understand how money works.
-Never retiring, thus helping to reduce the availability of good jobs to those still trying to advance their career. (Gen X really got fucked here.)

There are still some ancient vestiges of the group that protested the Vietnam war, fought for civil rights, women’s rights, etc. But I think they forgot to run for office and dropped the ball.

∞∞∞ wrote:

93henfan wrote:
If you enjoy socialism.

We watched older people essentially loot this nation and shower themselves with borrowed wealth from future generations. The Boomers (aka. "Me" generation) will probably go down in American history as the largest re-distributors of wealth. Boomers are just socialist pretending to be capitalists.

Each generation gets to "loot" their own coffers and borrow wealth
If you are a young person, your time will come and you can organize
and write whatever legislation you think will fix whatever you think is the problem



Good Luck

∞∞∞ wrote:

Gil Dobie wrote:
Please explain to me how I am showing myself with borrowed wealth from future generations?

A few examples as a GENERATION (not individually):

-Eliminated and reduced salaries, work benefits, etc. in the workforce. Obliterated unions which helped drive down benefits available to workers.
-Bought more properties than needed and rented them at ridiculous costs to younger people.
-Voted in politicians who seek to eliminate/reduce the social safety nets and other benefits they benefited from.
-Looted the treasury for massive tax giveaways and now they're running up the national credit card (at exactly the wrong time)...sticking their kids, grandchildren and future generations with the bill.
-Somehow decide the 2007-08 financial crash was because things are too regulated.
-Eliminated the financial regulations designed to prevent a depression (and inequality of the Gilded Age).
-Insist to your kids, who are crippled by student debt, but whom are chastised for not having a home or kids yet, that they just don't understand how money works.
-Never retiring, thus helping to reduce the availability of good jobs to those still trying to advance their career. (Gen X really got **** here.)

There are still some ancient vestiges of the group that protested the Vietnam war, fought for civil rights, women’s rights, etc. But I think they forgot to run for office and dropped the ball.

Kind of felt that way about the greatest generation, they had all the nice pensions. I think Trump is the 4th straight boomer President over the last 7 elections.

Chizzang wrote:

∞∞∞ wrote: We watched older people essentially loot this nation and shower themselves with borrowed wealth from future generations. The Boomers (aka. "Me" generation) will probably go down in American history as the largest re-distributors of wealth. Boomers are just socialist pretending to be capitalists.

Each generation gets to "loot" their own coffers and borrow wealth
If you are a young person, your time will come and you can organize
and write whatever legislation you think will fix whatever you think is the problem



Good Luck

Exactly. Each generation gets to choose its path...hopefully for the best of the nation, current and future. GenZ and Gen Alpha will eventually takeover for GenX/Millenials and I hope when we're older, we can gracefully step aside. All we can do is try to leave America better for them.

GenX/Y could end screwing the nation too, but that story has yet to be written.

∞∞∞ wrote: -Never retiring, thus helping to reduce the availability of good jobs to those still trying to advance their career. (Gen X really got **** here.)

I don't think Gen X was really impacted by this - our generation hit the sweet spot on this, got in and got established before the Boomers had to hang around longer. If you were good enough to advance you did, if you weren't, well, that's not really the fault of old people hanging around then, is it? Maybe true for the generation that came after Gen X.

GannonFan wrote:

∞∞∞ wrote: -Never retiring, thus helping to reduce the availability of good jobs to those still trying to advance their career. (Gen X really got **** here.)

I don't think Gen X was really impacted by this - our generation hit the sweet spot on this, got in and got established before the Boomers had to hang around longer. If you were good enough to advance you did, if you weren't, well, that's not really the fault of old people hanging around then, is it? Maybe true for the generation that came after Gen X.

Of Gen Xers I've spoken to, including what I've read, getting into upper management positions has been difficult across the board; Boomers are simply sticking around too long past retirement age.

Regardless, Gen X never had the numbers to challenge Boomers, but Gen Y does (and Trump's election has shaken it out of its apathy). It's a shift that will eventually be "won" by Millennials simply due to age, but it's going to be a cultural and social change that's uncomfortable for many. And I'm sure when I'm older, I'll be uncomfortable by changes those younger than me will make - such is the history of humanity.