So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Post by kalm »

Pwns wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
89hen resorts to name calling and implying that everybody else is bathing in Krytonite
as he pretends to love all the worlds unborn children and not have a religious view on the subject

:lol:

There aren't enough "eye rolls" to post for my response to that silliness
Hey Chizz:

I think you'll find pretty much universal agreement that:

1. Needless loss of life is a bad thing.

and

2. It's not practical to preserve life at all costs (e.g. set the national speed limit to 30 MPH or putting nets around every bridge to keep people from jumping).

The disagreement is what "needless" is and when the costs of preserving life no longer become reasonable. You and kalm basically say is that in order to be pro-life you have to throw out #2, which is ridiculous. You basically don't have anything to back up the notion that the pro-life pretend to care about children except imputing motives of religious fundamentalism, which is silly because even guys like Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris admit abortion is a difficult moral question and not an obvious one. :coffee:
I agree with Hitchens and Harris...it is indeed a difficult moral question.

So are seat belt laws and collateral damage.

:coffee:
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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Post by Chizzang »

Pwns wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
89hen resorts to name calling and implying that everybody else is bathing in Krytonite
as he pretends to love all the worlds unborn children and not have a religious view on the subject

:lol:

There aren't enough "eye rolls" to post for my response to that silliness
Hey Chizz:

I think you'll find pretty much universal agreement that:

1. Needless loss of life is a bad thing.

and

2. It's not practical to preserve life at all costs (e.g. set the national speed limit to 30 MPH or putting nets around every bridge to keep people from jumping).

The disagreement is what "needless" is and when the costs of preserving life no longer become reasonable. You and kalm basically say is that in order to be pro-life you have to throw out #2, which is ridiculous. You basically don't have anything to back up the notion that the pro-life pretend to care about children except imputing motives of religious fundamentalism, which is silly because even guys like Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris admit abortion is a difficult moral question and not an obvious one. :coffee:
Welcome:
I've argued its the most difficult debate in modern politics
I'm glad to hear that you think it has complexities too

:clap:

Abortion = Murder (The end)
It's catchy and packs a punch but lacks some of the situational complexities
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Re: RE: Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Post by UNI88 »

Chizzang wrote:
Pwns wrote:
Hey Chizz:

I think you'll find pretty much universal agreement that:

1. Needless loss of life is a bad thing.

and

2. It's not practical to preserve life at all costs (e.g. set the national speed limit to 30 MPH or putting nets around every bridge to keep people from jumping).

The disagreement is what "needless" is and when the costs of preserving life no longer become reasonable. You and kalm basically say is that in order to be pro-life you have to throw out #2, which is ridiculous. You basically don't have anything to back up the notion that the pro-life pretend to care about children except imputing motives of religious fundamentalism, which is silly because even guys like Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris admit abortion is a difficult moral question and not an obvious one. :coffee:
Welcome:
I've argued its the most difficult debate in modern politics
I'm glad to hear that you think it has complexities too

:clap:

Abortion = Murder (The end)
It's catchy and packs a punch but lacks some of the situational complexities
Ahem, I do believe I'm on record saying it's complicated.

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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Post by Pwns »

Fired PP director column in the NYT

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/19/opin ... thood.html
For me, as a physician, it was also simply good medical care to treat the whole patient. There were already some Planned Parenthood health centers that provided full-spectrum care. In one clinic I visited, a new mother could get a checkup while her baby was vaccinated. If she was diagnosed with postpartum depression, she could receive mental health services right there, too.

With high-quality affordable health care out of reach for so many, Planned Parenthood has a duty to maximize its reach. I began efforts to increase care for women before, during and after pregnancies, and to enhance critically needed services like mental health and addiction treatment.

But the team that I brought in, experts in public health and health policy, faced daily internal opposition from those who saw my goals as mission creep. There was even more criticism as we worked to change the perception that Planned Parenthood was just a progressive political entity and show that it was first and foremost a mainstream health care organization.
In short, she tried to make Planned Parenthood into what it claims to be instead of primarily an abortion organization and that ruffled feathers. :coffee:
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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Post by Chizzang »

Pwns wrote:Fired PP director column in the NYT

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/19/opin ... thood.html
For me, as a physician, it was also simply good medical care to treat the whole patient. There were already some Planned Parenthood health centers that provided full-spectrum care. In one clinic I visited, a new mother could get a checkup while her baby was vaccinated. If she was diagnosed with postpartum depression, she could receive mental health services right there, too.

With high-quality affordable health care out of reach for so many, Planned Parenthood has a duty to maximize its reach. I began efforts to increase care for women before, during and after pregnancies, and to enhance critically needed services like mental health and addiction treatment.

But the team that I brought in, experts in public health and health policy, faced daily internal opposition from those who saw my goals as mission creep. There was even more criticism as we worked to change the perception that Planned Parenthood was just a progressive political entity and show that it was first and foremost a mainstream health care organization.
In short, she tried to make Planned Parenthood into what it claims to be instead of primarily an abortion organization and that ruffled feathers. :coffee:
It reads like a "Why I left Scientology " story

:lol:
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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Post by Ivytalk »

Chizzang wrote:
Pwns wrote:Fired PP director column in the NYT

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/19/opin ... thood.html



In short, she tried to make Planned Parenthood into what it claims to be instead of primarily an abortion organization and that ruffled feathers. :coffee:
It reads like a "Why I left Scientology " story

:lol:
Now that you mention it, PP is kind of a cult.
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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Post by Chizzang »

Ivytalk wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
It reads like a "Why I left Scientology " story

:lol:
Now that you mention it, PP is kind of a cult.
Totally !!!

:nod:
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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Post by CAA Flagship »

Pwns wrote:Fired PP director column in the NYT

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/19/opin ... thood.html
For me, as a physician, it was also simply good medical care to treat the whole patient. There were already some Planned Parenthood health centers that provided full-spectrum care. In one clinic I visited, a new mother could get a checkup while her baby was vaccinated. If she was diagnosed with postpartum depression, she could receive mental health services right there, too.

With high-quality affordable health care out of reach for so many, Planned Parenthood has a duty to maximize its reach. I began efforts to increase care for women before, during and after pregnancies, and to enhance critically needed services like mental health and addiction treatment.

But the team that I brought in, experts in public health and health policy, faced daily internal opposition from those who saw my goals as mission creep. There was even more criticism as we worked to change the perception that Planned Parenthood was just a progressive political entity and show that it was first and foremost a mainstream health care organization.
In short, she tried to make Planned Parenthood into what it claims to be instead of primarily an abortion organization and that ruffled feathers. :coffee:
Heh.
Despite many shocking laws passed this year, more legislation to protect abortion access passed in 2019 than in any year in recent history.
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Re: RE: Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Post by 89Hen »

UNI88 wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
Welcome:
I've argued its the most difficult debate in modern politics
I'm glad to hear that you think it has complexities too

:clap:

Abortion = Murder (The end)
It's catchy and packs a punch but lacks some of the situational complexities
Ahem, I do believe I'm on record saying it's complicated.
+1
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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Post by 89Hen »

So at the concert last night they showed a 1-2 minute pro-abortion ad between acts. Not really sure who paid to have that shown. Seemed really out of place.

Today in my parking lot I see a minivan with a Warren sticker on the drivers door and the vanity tags were: ROEVWDE.

Who puts that on a license plate??
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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Post by Chizzang »

89Hen wrote:
Who puts that on a license plate??
People like them
who are sick of people like you...

:lol:
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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Post by ∞∞∞ »

89Hen wrote:So at the concert last night they showed a 1-2 minute pro-abortion ad between acts. Not really sure who paid to have that shown. Seemed really out of place.
Not out of place at all. Music and art have always been heavily intertwined with politics throughout human history, and can often be used as a platform for change because of their wide reach.

It's more important now than ever to use all mediums to make sure that people understand the assaults this administration (and Republicans in general) are waging against liberty.
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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Post by 89Hen »

∞∞∞ wrote:
89Hen wrote:So at the concert last night they showed a 1-2 minute pro-abortion ad between acts. Not really sure who paid to have that shown. Seemed really out of place.
Not out of place at all. Music and art have always been heavily intertwined with politics throughout human history, and can often be used as a platform for change because of their wide reach.

It's more important now than ever to use all mediums to make sure that people understand the assaults this administration (and Republicans in general) are waging against liberty.
So I can assume you'd be against a pro-life ad aired during the same concert. You're on a roll today. :lol:
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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Post by Silenoz »

∞∞∞ wrote:
89Hen wrote:So at the concert last night they showed a 1-2 minute pro-abortion ad between acts. Not really sure who paid to have that shown. Seemed really out of place.
Not out of place at all. Music and art have always been heavily intertwined with politics throughout human history, and can often be used as a platform for change because of their wide reach.

It's more important now than ever to use all mediums to make sure that people understand the assaults this administration (and Republicans in general) are waging against liberty.
I hope they do it at the concert I"m attending next week


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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Post by ∞∞∞ »

89Hen wrote:
∞∞∞ wrote: Not out of place at all. Music and art have always been heavily intertwined with politics throughout human history, and can often be used as a platform for change because of their wide reach.

It's more important now than ever to use all mediums to make sure that people understand the assaults this administration (and Republicans in general) are waging against liberty.
So I can assume you'd be against a pro-life ad aired during the same concert. You're on a roll today. :lol:
I wouldn't. I might be annoyed or leave and never buy a ticket again, but I wouldn't be against it.
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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Post by 89Hen »

phpBB [video]
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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Post by ∞∞∞ »

89Hen wrote:
phpBB [video]
Free-market at work. Good for NBC.
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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Post by 89Hen »

∞∞∞ wrote:Free-market at work. Good for NBC.
I was only posting hoping you would leave or not buy a ticket.
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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Post by Ivytalk »

∞∞∞ wrote:
89Hen wrote:So at the concert last night they showed a 1-2 minute pro-abortion ad between acts. Not really sure who paid to have that shown. Seemed really out of place.
Not out of place at all. Music and art have always been heavily intertwined with politics throughout human history, and can often be used as a platform for change because of their wide reach.

It's more important now than ever to use all mediums to make sure that people understand the assaults this administration (and Republicans in general) are waging against liberty.
What do you know about human history and liberty? :coffee:
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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Post by CID1990 »

Ivytalk wrote:
∞∞∞ wrote: Not out of place at all. Music and art have always been heavily intertwined with politics throughout human history, and can often be used as a platform for change because of their wide reach.

It's more important now than ever to use all mediums to make sure that people understand the assaults this administration (and Republicans in general) are waging against liberty.
What do you know about human history and liberty? :coffee:
See the Treep bibliography of American history that I posted previously


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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Post by Pwns »

Ivytalk wrote:
∞∞∞ wrote: Not out of place at all. Music and art have always been heavily intertwined with politics throughout human history, and can often be used as a platform for change because of their wide reach.

It's more important now than ever to use all mediums to make sure that people understand the assaults this administration (and Republicans in general) are waging against liberty.
What do you know about human history and liberty? :coffee:
Its deciding who to provide a good or service to. Unless you're a bigoted baker. :tothehand:
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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Post by ∞∞∞ »

Five years after having an abortion, over 95 percent of the women in a landmark UC San Francisco study said it was the right decision for them.

The findings, published Sunday, Jan. 12, 2020, in Social Science & Medicine, come as many states are requiring waiting periods and counseling for women seeking abortions, based on the assumption that they may regret having them.

But the researchers at UCSF’s Advancing New Standards in Reproductive Health (ANSIRH) found no evidence that women began to regret their decisions as years passed. On the contrary, the women reported that both their positive and negative feelings about the abortion diminished over time. At five years, the overwhelming majority (84 percent) had either positive feelings, or none at all.
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/01/41642 ... sion-study

Here's the study: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... via%3Dihub
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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Post by AZGrizFan »

∞∞∞ wrote:
Five years after having an abortion, over 95 percent of the women in a landmark UC San Francisco study said it was the right decision for them.

The findings, published Sunday, Jan. 12, 2020, in Social Science & Medicine, come as many states are requiring waiting periods and counseling for women seeking abortions, based on the assumption that they may regret having them.

But the researchers at UCSF’s Advancing New Standards in Reproductive Health (ANSIRH) found no evidence that women began to regret their decisions as years passed. On the contrary, the women reported that both their positive and negative feelings about the abortion diminished over time. At five years, the overwhelming majority (84 percent) had either positive feelings, or none at all.
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/01/41642 ... sion-study

Here's the study: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... via%3Dihub
Wonder if the kids regretted it? :coffee:
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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Post by 89Hen »

∞∞∞ wrote:Five years after having an abortion, over 95 percent of the women in a landmark UC San Francisco study said it was the right decision for them.
Did they ask the babies?
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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Post by GannonFan »

89Hen wrote:
∞∞∞ wrote:Five years after having an abortion, over 95 percent of the women in a landmark UC San Francisco study said it was the right decision for them.
Did they ask the babies?
One of those "did not return our message asking for comment" thing. :coffee:
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