Stupid Things Ocasio-Cortez Says: Megathread

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez: The Upper-Middle Class Doesn't Exist Anymore in America

Postby AZGrizFan » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:12 pm

You guys can kill THAT source all you want. There are literally HUNDREDS of other sources out that that will state exactly what that source did...the middle class is shrinking because the UPPER MIDDLE CLASS is growing.

I could cite all of them for you, but the hell with it. Google is your friend.

She's a retard, plain and simple. And I hope, beyond hope, she becomes the poster child for the new democratic party. Please, if there is a God....let it be so.
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Re: Ocasio-Cortez: The Upper-Middle Class Doesn't Exist Anymore in America

Postby kalm » Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:19 pm

∞∞∞ wrote:^Good catch by JSO. That's a horrendous, completely asinine method to define the middle-class.


So how do we define it?

Straight income levels and what quintile you fall in is clearly flawed.

Standard of living? Happiness level? The Square Deal? Once upon a time each generation could count on being better off than their parents. Is that still the case? How is the household debt level looking? National debt that will eventually come home to roost? Or will it?

Lots of questions, caveats, and grey areas.
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Re: Ocasio-Cortez: The Upper-Middle Class Doesn't Exist Anymore in America

Postby kalm » Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:21 pm

AZGrizFan wrote:You guys can kill THAT source all you want. There are literally HUNDREDS of other sources out that that will state exactly what that source did...the middle class is shrinking because the UPPER MIDDLE CLASS is growing.

I could cite all of them for you, but the hell with it. Google is your friend.

She's a retard, plain and simple. And I hope, beyond hope, she becomes the poster child for the new democratic party. Please, if there is a God....let it be so.


And there was this post right ahead of mine!

:rofl:
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Re: Ocasio-Cortez: The Upper-Middle Class Doesn't Exist Anymore in America

Postby JohnStOnge » Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:28 pm

kalm wrote:
∞∞∞ wrote:^Good catch by JSO. That's a horrendous, completely asinine method to define the middle-class.


So how do we define it?

Straight income levels and what quintile you fall in is clearly flawed.

Standard of living? Happiness level? The Square Deal? Once upon a time each generation could count on being better off than their parents. Is that still the case? How is the household debt level looking? National debt that will eventually come home to roost? Or will it?

Lots of questions, caveats, and grey areas.


"Middle" is a relative term. If you have a line segment that is 2 inches long the middle is at 1 inch. If the line segment grows to 3 inches you don't say that the middle is still at 1 inch because you've defined it in absolute terms. It's now at 1.5 inches.

The "middle class" is some percentage of the population symmetrically on each side of the middle of the distribution. I actually don't think using the income distribution is flawed. But if you wish you could use net wealth or something like that.

Whatever you choose it's going to be a relative thing. Like if you choose income you can't choose some fixed level like the author of that study did and say somebody at that level is "middle class" regardless of what the overall distribution looks like.
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Re: Ocasio-Cortez: The Upper-Middle Class Doesn't Exist Anymore in America

Postby JohnStOnge » Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:32 pm

AZGrizFan wrote:You guys can kill THAT source all you want. There are literally HUNDREDS of other sources out that that will state exactly what that source did...the middle class is shrinking because the UPPER MIDDLE CLASS is growing. .


As I said, I think that if you properly define "middle class" it cannot shrink as a proportion of the population. It's going to be defined in terms of a proportion of the population.

BTW, isn't the "upper middle class" part of the middle class?
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Re: Ocasio-Cortez: The Upper-Middle Class Doesn't Exist Anymore in America

Postby Ivytalk » Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:46 pm

89Hen wrote:
Ibanez wrote:A little polish goes a long way.

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez: The Upper-Middle Class Doesn't Exist Anymore in America

Postby Ivytalk » Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:47 pm

Winterborn wrote:She is most definitely not the sharpest tool in the shed.


Boston University should lose its acccreditation for turning her loose.
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Re: Ocasio-Cortez: The Upper-Middle Class Doesn't Exist Anymore in America

Postby kalm » Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:50 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:
kalm wrote:
So how do we define it?

Straight income levels and what quintile you fall in is clearly flawed.

Standard of living? Happiness level? The Square Deal? Once upon a time each generation could count on being better off than their parents. Is that still the case? How is the household debt level looking? National debt that will eventually come home to roost? Or will it?

Lots of questions, caveats, and grey areas.


"Middle" is a relative term. If you have a line segment that is 2 inches long the middle is at 1 inch. If the line segment grows to 3 inches you don't say that the middle is still at 1 inch because you've defined it in absolute terms. It's now at 1.5 inches.

The "middle class" is some percentage of the population symmetrically on each side of the middle of the distribution. I actually don't think using the income distribution is flawed. But if you wish you could use net wealth or something like that.

Whatever you choose it's going to be a relative thing. Like if you choose income you can't choose some fixed level like the author of that study did and say somebody at that level is "middle class" regardless of what the overall distribution looks like.


Indeed. Relative to wealth distribution, standard of living, etc, it’s rather meaningless if you’re middle class in Haiti.
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Re: Ocasio-Cortez: The Upper-Middle Class Doesn't Exist Anymore in America

Postby CID1990 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:56 pm

kalm wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
"Middle" is a relative term. If you have a line segment that is 2 inches long the middle is at 1 inch. If the line segment grows to 3 inches you don't say that the middle is still at 1 inch because you've defined it in absolute terms. It's now at 1.5 inches.

The "middle class" is some percentage of the population symmetrically on each side of the middle of the distribution. I actually don't think using the income distribution is flawed. But if you wish you could use net wealth or something like that.

Whatever you choose it's going to be a relative thing. Like if you choose income you can't choose some fixed level like the author of that study did and say somebody at that level is "middle class" regardless of what the overall distribution looks like.


Indeed. Relative to wealth distribution, standard of living, etc, it’s rather meaningless if you’re middle class in Haiti.


I was about to say that based on my travels, the poorest in America would be considered middle class in most countries I've lived in
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Re: Ocasio-Cortez: The Upper-Middle Class Doesn't Exist Anymore in America

Postby Ibanez » Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:33 pm

89Hen wrote:
Ibanez wrote:A little polish goes a long way.

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You know...I almost said something about polish vs Polish but I figured someone here would make the connection. You made me proud, pig.


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Re: Ocasio-Cortez: The Upper-Middle Class Doesn't Exist Anymore in America

Postby Ibanez » Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:34 pm

∞∞∞ wrote:
kalm wrote:Dude, the DNC is completely controlled by monied interests and moderates.

This.

Go to any meeting and you'll see a mostly older, moderate crowd. And they still think that trying to win the hearts and minds of everyone is the way to go, even though that's not today's political reality. But the younger and more progressive crowd has been pulling moderates a little more leftwards lately (Trump is helping too). The Sanders bloc did a helluva job as well

Honestly, this is one item I envy the GOP for: they have a unified message. The Democrats are all over the place; wishy-washy messages are worse than none at all.

Let the moderates decide: GOP or DNC, but make the message clear.

If that’s the case, then y’all are doing an equally shitty job of drowning out the extremists.


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Re: Ocasio-Cortez: The Upper-Middle Class Doesn't Exist Anymore in America

Postby kalm » Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:49 pm

Ibanez wrote:
∞∞∞ wrote:This.

Go to any meeting and you'll see a mostly older, moderate crowd. And they still think that trying to win the hearts and minds of everyone is the way to go, even though that's not today's political reality. But the younger and more progressive crowd has been pulling moderates a little more leftwards lately (Trump is helping too). The Sanders bloc did a helluva job as well

Honestly, this is one item I envy the GOP for: they have a unified message. The Democrats are all over the place; wishy-washy messages are worse than none at all.

Let the moderates decide: GOP or DNC, but make the message clear.

If that’s the case, then y’all are doing an equally shitty job of drowning out the extremists.


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Yawn...

There are very few actual extremists just like there are very few real commies or Nazis.

Just because Joe who cuts you’re hair believes in Medicare for all and Pam who does your lube job thinks the wall is a grand idea doesn’t mean we’re on the cusp of becoming the Soviet Union or the Fourth Reich...
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Re: Ocasio-Cortez: The Upper-Middle Class Doesn't Exist Anymore in America

Postby BDKJMU » Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:18 pm

89Hen wrote:
Ibanez wrote: :ohno: :ohno: :ohno: What's more depressing is that people voted for her.

Keep in mind she got less than 16,000 votes in a district where 178,000 people voted in the last full election (Crowley won the 2012 primary with over 50,000 votes). I'm pretty sure any decent looking chick could get 16,000 votes without ever opening her mouth.


Just looked up. About 215k registeres voters in her district. So she got the votes of about 7.5% of the registered voters in her district. Given that, why are so many people paying attention to this cunt?

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez: The Upper-Middle Class Doesn't Exist Anymore in America

Postby CID1990 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:51 pm

Ivytalk wrote:
Winterborn wrote:She is most definitely not the sharpest tool in the shed.


Boston University should lose its acccreditation for turning her loose.


If she studied economics at BU then you are definitely correct
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Re: Ocasio-Cortez: The Upper-Middle Class Doesn't Exist Anymore in America

Postby Ibanez » Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:58 am

kalm wrote:
Ibanez wrote:If that’s the case, then y’all are doing an equally shitty job of drowning out the extremists.


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Yawn...

There are very few actual extremists just like there are very few real commies or Nazis.

Just because Joe who cuts you’re hair believes in Medicare for all and Pam who does your lube job thinks the wall is a grand idea doesn’t mean we’re on the cusp of becoming the Soviet Union or the Fourth Reich...
Yeah, I don't think that either, comrade. You either ignored or missed the point.
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Re: Ocasio-Cortez: The Upper-Middle Class Doesn't Exist Anymore in America

Postby kalm » Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:03 am

Ibanez wrote:
kalm wrote:
Yawn...

There are very few actual extremists just like there are very few real commies or Nazis.

Just because Joe who cuts you’re hair believes in Medicare for all and Pam who does your lube job thinks the wall is a grand idea doesn’t mean we’re on the cusp of becoming the Soviet Union or the Fourth Reich...
Yeah, I don't think that either, comrade. You either ignored or missed the point.


My bad then. So what's your point.

(BTW...it's "kalmrade")
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Re: Ocasio-Cortez: The Upper-Middle Class Doesn't Exist Anymore in America

Postby Ibanez » Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:05 am

kalm wrote:
Ibanez wrote:Yeah, I don't think that either, comrade. You either ignored or missed the point.


My bad then. So what's your point.

(BTW...it's "kalmrade")

Regardless of how many or how few the extremists on the left and right are, the parties do a horrible job of ignoring them. Instead, they allow those far left/right views and people to take center stage, obscuring any moderate.
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Re: Ocasio-Cortez: The Upper-Middle Class Doesn't Exist Anymore in America

Postby kalm » Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:15 am

Ibanez wrote:
kalm wrote:
My bad then. So what's your point.

(BTW...it's "kalmrade")

Regardless of how many or how few the extremists on the left and right are, the parties do a horrible job of ignoring them. Instead, they allow those far left/right views and people to take center stage, obscuring any moderate.


No, that's what I thought you said. Give some examples. If you're referring to political theater, ok. If you're referring to political outcomes, both parties are center right to right but not all that extreme.
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Re: Ocasio-Cortez: The Upper-Middle Class Doesn't Exist Anymore in America

Postby houndawg » Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:15 am

kalm wrote:She either didn’t word it well or there needs to be more context. The quotes initially point to an argument that the aging upper middle class (she also might be regerencing Democratic establishment) is not supporting the younger, more progressive wing. Hence “moderate upper middle class no longer exists)...which also doesn’t make sense since any shift toward Wall Street degregulation would be a move from the progressive left toward the middle.

And she then refers to the lower middle classes being “gutted” which is also confusing.

If she meant that wealthy establishment Dems (see the selfish boomer argument) have got there’s and are now out of touch with younger generations, their future, and a move back toward populism that would make sense.


She's right by the definition we used back in the day. Back in the 50s/60s the lower middle class were the guys raising a family on one blue collar income - construction, driving a delivery vehicle, worked at the hardware store... small house in the older part of town with big trees. Those people are pretty much gone and if there are any left they aren't any part of the middle class anymore.
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Re: Ocasio-Cortez: The Upper-Middle Class Doesn't Exist Anymore in America

Postby houndawg » Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:19 am

Ibanez wrote:
kalm wrote:
My bad then. So what's your point.

(BTW...it's "kalmrade")

Regardless of how many or how few the extremists on the left and right are, the parties do a horrible job of ignoring them. Instead, they allow those far left/right views and people to take center stage, obscuring any moderate.


Bullshit. If that were true you'd be in a fetal position, whimpering and convulsing spasmodically about President Sanders.
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Re: Ocasio-Cortez: The Upper-Middle Class Doesn't Exist Anymore in America

Postby Ibanez » Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:19 am

kalm wrote:
Ibanez wrote:Regardless of how many or how few the extremists on the left and right are, the parties do a horrible job of ignoring them. Instead, they allow those far left/right views and people to take center stage, obscuring any moderate.


No, that's what I thought you said. Give some examples. If you're referring to political theater, ok. If you're referring to political outcomes, both parties are center right to right but not all that extreme.

It's both. Look at the so called "Freedom Caucus." Hard line, far right Republicans that depth charge anything that might have bi-partisan support but aren't a moderate voice. Anecdotal, I know, but many of the " Tea Party" hardcore Reps that I know around here can't stand people like Mark Meadows. That's what is drowning out the moderates.
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Re: Ocasio-Cortez: The Upper-Middle Class Doesn't Exist Anymore in America

Postby Ibanez » Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:20 am

houndawg wrote:
Ibanez wrote:Regardless of how many or how few the extremists on the left and right are, the parties do a horrible job of ignoring them. Instead, they allow those far left/right views and people to take center stage, obscuring any moderate.


Bullshit. If that were true you'd be in a fetal position, whimpering and convulsing spasmodically about President Sanders.

But I voted for Bernie in the primary... :?
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Re: Ocasio-Cortez: The Upper-Middle Class Doesn't Exist Anymore in America

Postby kalm » Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:25 am

Ibanez wrote:
kalm wrote:
No, that's what I thought you said. Give some examples. If you're referring to political theater, ok. If you're referring to political outcomes, both parties are center right to right but not all that extreme.

It's both. Look at the so called "Freedom Caucus." Hard line, far right Republicans that depth charge anything that might have bi-partisan support but aren't a moderate voice. Anecdotal, I know, but many of the " Tea Party" hardcore Reps that I know around here can't stand people like Mark Meadows. That's what is drowning out the moderates.


Gotcha. Perhaps a better term to use than extremist would be ideological purists?
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Re: Ocasio-Cortez: The Upper-Middle Class Doesn't Exist Anymore in America

Postby houndawg » Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:27 am

CID1990 wrote:
Ivytalk wrote:
Boston University should lose its acccreditation for turning her loose.


If she studied economics at BU then you are definitely correct


No shit, all she has to do is sit back and watch the World's Greatest Dealmaker. Its like getting a free MBA. :thumb:

I'm beginning to think that any college degree should be a disqualifier, especially if its from the Ivy League. If that's the best that the best and the brightest can do its no wonder the empire is collapsing. :coffee:
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Re: Ocasio-Cortez: The Upper-Middle Class Doesn't Exist Anymore in America

Postby houndawg » Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:28 am

Ibanez wrote:
houndawg wrote:
Bullshit. If that were true you'd be in a fetal position, whimpering and convulsing spasmodically about President Sanders.

But I voted for Bernie in the primary... :?


Isn't it ironic?
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