Stupid Things Ocasio-Cortez Says: Megathread

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Re: Stupid Things Ocasio-Cortez Says: Megathread

Post by kalm »

CAA Flagship wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:58 pm
Chizzang wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:38 pm


Your obsession with a representative from NYC is duly noted

:geek:

its like a kind of TDS
So there's no defense for the quote?
I’d like a defense of capitalism, please.

Let all the companies starting with oil die if you want to walk the walk.

Who’s in?
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Re: Stupid Things Ocasio-Cortez Says: Megathread

Post by UNI88 »

Chizzang wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:06 pm
AZGrizFan wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 6:32 pm

And becoming more of a nobody every single day. Trying really, really hard to stay relevant. It’s not working.
well Flaggy is giving it a hell of a go..!!!

:lol:
I want AOC to stay relevant. The stupid things she says are funny and she's a nice Yang to Trump's Ying.

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Re: Stupid Things Ocasio-Cortez Says: Megathread

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:11 pm
CAA Flagship wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:58 pm

So there's no defense for the quote?
I’d like a defense of capitalism, please.

Let all the companies starting with oil die if you want to walk the walk.

Who’s in?
Capitalism is better than socialism. Case dismissed. :nutkick:

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Re: Stupid Things Ocasio-Cortez Says: Megathread

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:27 pm
kalm wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:11 pm


I’d like a defense of capitalism, please.

Let all the companies starting with oil die if you want to walk the walk.

Who’s in?
Capitalism is better than socialism. Case dismissed. :nutkick:
Mixed market economy with Keynesianism in times of crisis are more honest and better than both.

Why do you hate honesty?

:ohno:
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Re: Stupid Things Ocasio-Cortez Says: Megathread

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:39 pm
UNI88 wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:27 pm

Capitalism is better than socialism. Case dismissed. :nutkick:
Mixed market economy with Keynesianism in times of crisis are more honest and better than both.

Why do you hate honesty?

:ohno:
:flag: Moving the goalposts.

You requested a defense of capitalism. I provided one. Mixed market economy and Keynesianism were neither part of the question or my answer
.
.
.
We already have a mixed market economy and I've long argued that the relevant questions are what is the best mix and how do we fund it.

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Re: Stupid Things Ocasio-Cortez Says: Megathread

Post by CitadelGrad »

kalm wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:39 pm
UNI88 wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:27 pm


Capitalism is better than socialism. Case dismissed. :nutkick:
Mixed market economy with Keynesianism in times of crisis are more honest and better than both.

Why do you hate honesty?

:ohno:
Oh fuck. Shit just got real. We're talking Keynesianism now.
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Re: Stupid Things Ocasio-Cortez Says: Megathread

Post by kalm »

CitadelGrad wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:27 pm
kalm wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:39 pm


Mixed market economy with Keynesianism in times of crisis are more honest and better than both.

Why do you hate honesty?

:ohno:
Oh fuck. Shit just got real. We're talking Keynesianism now.
Or we could let the free market just run its course.
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Re: Stupid Things Ocasio-Cortez Says: Megathread

Post by Ivytalk »

kalm wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 1:02 pm
CitadelGrad wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:27 pm


Oh fuck. Shit just got real. We're talking Keynesianism now.
Or we could let the free market just run its course.
Now yer talkin’! :thumb:
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Re: Stupid Things Ocasio-Cortez Says: Megathread

Post by kalm »

Ivytalk wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 1:29 pm
kalm wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 1:02 pm


Or we could let the free market just run its course.
Now yer talkin’! :thumb:
So no government bailouts, no Fed lending, let's just let it all burn! You've skipped libertarian and gone straight to anarchist? :lol:
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Re: Stupid Things Ocasio-Cortez Says: Megathread

Post by CitadelGrad »

kalm wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 1:34 pm
Ivytalk wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 1:29 pm


Now yer talkin’! :thumb:
So no government bailouts, no Fed lending, let's just let it all burn! You've skipped libertarian and gone straight to anarchist? :lol:
I wonder if you realize Fed policy is largely what made the U.S. economy so vulnerable to an emergent crisis this like nation-wide lock-down.

COVID19 isn't the crisis. The fiscal and monetary response to it is.
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Re: Stupid Things Ocasio-Cortez Says: Megathread

Post by kalm »

CitadelGrad wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 1:54 pm
kalm wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 1:34 pm


So no government bailouts, no Fed lending, let's just let it all burn! You've skipped libertarian and gone straight to anarchist? :lol:
I wonder if you realize Fed policy is largely what made the U.S. economy so vulnerable to an emergent crisis this like nation-wide lock-down.

COVID19 isn't the crisis. The fiscal and monetary response to it is.
I respect your stances on monetary policy and I’m skeptical too but right now would seem like the best argument for it.

Without it, what would prevent a total collapse of the supply chain for most goods (from oil to bacon) not to mention the banking system?
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Re: Stupid Things Ocasio-Cortez Says: Megathread

Post by Chizzang »

The Fed killed Granny...

true story
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Re: Stupid Things Ocasio-Cortez Says: Megathread

Post by kalm »

Chizzang wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:01 pm
The Fed killed Granny...

true story
Bitch deserved it. :coffee:
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Re: Stupid Things Ocasio-Cortez Says: Megathread

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:00 pm
CitadelGrad wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 1:54 pm


I wonder if you realize Fed policy is largely what made the U.S. economy so vulnerable to an emergent crisis this like nation-wide lock-down.

COVID19 isn't the crisis. The fiscal and monetary response to it is.
I respect your stances on monetary policy and I’m skeptical too but right now would seem like the best argument for it.

Without it, what would prevent a total collapse of the supply chain for most goods (from oil to bacon) not to mention the banking system?
What has the Fed done? Lowered rates? Bought up US debt and MBS's? Neither of those have prevented any "collapse".
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Re: Stupid Things Ocasio-Cortez Says: Megathread

Post by mainejeff »

This was a great exchange the other day between AOC and Fucker Carlson.....

Go Black Bears!

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Re: Stupid Things Ocasio-Cortez Says: Megathread

Post by Ivytalk »

kalm wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 1:34 pm
Ivytalk wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 1:29 pm


Now yer talkin’! :thumb:
So no government bailouts, no Fed lending, let's just let it all burn! You've skipped libertarian and gone straight to anarchist? :lol:
You obviously have no understanding of the concept of “libertarian.” And your posts would be more effective without the emojis.
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Re: Stupid Things Ocasio-Cortez Says: Megathread

Post by Ivytalk »

mainejeff wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:50 pm
This was a great exchange the other day between AOC and Fucker Carlson.....

Well. That hurt.

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Re: Stupid Things Ocasio-Cortez Says: Megathread

Post by kalm »

AZGrizFan wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:40 pm
kalm wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:00 pm


I respect your stances on monetary policy and I’m skeptical too but right now would seem like the best argument for it.

Without it, what would prevent a total collapse of the supply chain for most goods (from oil to bacon) not to mention the banking system?
What has the Fed done? Lowered rates? Bought up US debt and MBS's? Neither of those have prevented any "collapse".
I would guess stabilize liquidity or else it would be worse. But honestly....you’re the banker. You tell me.
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Re: Stupid Things Ocasio-Cortez Says: Megathread

Post by CitadelGrad »

"Stabilize liquidity" is an interesting euphemism for printing money like a motherfucker.

What happens when the time comes to unwind the balance sheet? I don't think you'll see a lot of liquidity stabilization. They haven't even fully unwound from the Great Recession.
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Re: Stupid Things Ocasio-Cortez Says: Megathread

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:16 pm
AZGrizFan wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:40 pm


What has the Fed done? Lowered rates? Bought up US debt and MBS's? Neither of those have prevented any "collapse".
I would guess stabilize liquidity or else it would be worse. But honestly....you’re the banker. You tell me.
At a time when banks are socking away billions of dollars for projected loan losses from the unnecessary and self-induced economic calamity that’s about to hit, The Fed lowers rates 150 bp and costs us even MORE money on our entire variable rate portfolio....Additionally, any money we had in OUR bank (and yes, even banks have to bank somewhere) is now earning essentially zip squat nada. At my credit union we’ve got $700 million in cash (and growing) sitting earning zero and can’t get people to take it out.I can tell you this: there’s PLENTY of money in the system...and there was even before the fed lowered rates. People are hoarding cash. Plain and simple. And not in their mattresses....but in their bank accounts. Loan payments across the country have been deferred 90 days, and people are sitting on THAT money too, waiting to see what happens with the economy and businesses coming back online. Hell, some folks have MORE money (thanks to the brilliance of the CARES package and the $600 weekly unemployment bump) than they did when they were working.

The treasury curve (upon which mortgage pricing is loosely based) is at an historic low (thanks to demand/flight to safety from the stock market crashing, and the Fed’s buying spree (QE8) among other things), so in the midst of this financial crisis we’re about to have a record month of mortgage fundings....problem is, 87% of the $200 million we’re funding this month are refi’s....nobody’s BUYING, they’re all just ratcheting down their mortgage payment...and hey, good for them...banks don’t hold those on their books anyways, for the most part.

Honestly, IMHO the Fed shouldn’t have done shit. This was NOT, in any way, shape or form, an “economic” issue that needed the Fed to adjust their policies. Crashing their rates, opening up their pocketbook and buying up US Debt, etc., all that did was honestly pour gasoline on an earnings fire for most financial institutions, with no apparent goal...they completely misread the situation and the “fix” (which was really to do nothing). And to top it all off, they essentially used all their dry powder so now if action IS needed, where do they go? Negative rates? $10T on their balance sheet?

Fed done fucked up....
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Re: Stupid Things Ocasio-Cortez Says: Megathread

Post by kalm »

AZGrizFan wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:19 pm
kalm wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:16 pm


I would guess stabilize liquidity or else it would be worse. But honestly....you’re the banker. You tell me.
At a time when banks are socking away billions of dollars for projected loan losses from the unnecessary and self-induced economic calamity that’s about to hit, The Fed lowers rates 150 bp and costs us even MORE money on our entire variable rate portfolio....Additionally, any money we had in OUR bank (and yes, even banks have to bank somewhere) is now earning essentially zip squat nada. At my credit union we’ve got $700 million in cash (and growing) sitting earning zero and can’t get people to take it out.I can tell you this: there’s PLENTY of money in the system...and there was even before the fed lowered rates. People are hoarding cash. Plain and simple. And not in their mattresses....but in their bank accounts. Loan payments across the country have been deferred 90 days, and people are sitting on THAT money too, waiting to see what happens with the economy and businesses coming back online. Hell, some folks have MORE money (thanks to the brilliance of the CARES package and the $600 weekly unemployment bump) than they did when they were working.

The treasury curve (upon which mortgage pricing is loosely based) is at an historic low (thanks to demand/flight to safety from the stock market crashing, and the Fed’s buying spree (QE8) among other things), so in the midst of this financial crisis we’re about to have a record month of mortgage fundings....problem is, 87% of the $200 million we’re funding this month are refi’s....nobody’s BUYING, they’re all just ratcheting down their mortgage payment...and hey, good for them...banks don’t hold those on their books anyways, for the most part.

Honestly, IMHO the Fed shouldn’t have done shit. This was NOT, in any way, shape or form, an “economic” issue that needed the Fed to adjust their policies. Crashing their rates, opening up their pocketbook and buying up US Debt, etc., all that did was honestly pour gasoline on an earnings fire for most financial institutions, with no apparent goal...they completely misread the situation and the “fix” (which was really to do nothing). And to top it all off, they essentially used all their dry powder so now if action IS needed, where do they go? Negative rates? $10T on their balance sheet?

Fed done fucked up....
Thank you Z. Much of that makes sense. :thumb:
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Re: Stupid Things Ocasio-Cortez Says: Megathread

Post by CitadelGrad »

AZGrizFan wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:19 pm
kalm wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:16 pm


I would guess stabilize liquidity or else it would be worse. But honestly....you’re the banker. You tell me.
At a time when banks are socking away billions of dollars for projected loan losses from the unnecessary and self-induced economic calamity that’s about to hit, The Fed lowers rates 150 bp and costs us even MORE money on our entire variable rate portfolio....Additionally, any money we had in OUR bank (and yes, even banks have to bank somewhere) is now earning essentially zip squat nada. At my credit union we’ve got $700 million in cash (and growing) sitting earning zero and can’t get people to take it out.I can tell you this: there’s PLENTY of money in the system...and there was even before the fed lowered rates. People are hoarding cash. Plain and simple. And not in their mattresses....but in their bank accounts. Loan payments across the country have been deferred 90 days, and people are sitting on THAT money too, waiting to see what happens with the economy and businesses coming back online. Hell, some folks have MORE money (thanks to the brilliance of the CARES package and the $600 weekly unemployment bump) than they did when they were working.

The treasury curve (upon which mortgage pricing is loosely based) is at an historic low (thanks to demand/flight to safety from the stock market crashing, and the Fed’s buying spree (QE8) among other things), so in the midst of this financial crisis we’re about to have a record month of mortgage fundings....problem is, 87% of the $200 million we’re funding this month are refi’s....nobody’s BUYING, they’re all just ratcheting down their mortgage payment...and hey, good for them...banks don’t hold those on their books anyways, for the most part.

Honestly, IMHO the Fed shouldn’t have done shit. This was NOT, in any way, shape or form, an “economic” issue that needed the Fed to adjust their policies. Crashing their rates, opening up their pocketbook and buying up US Debt, etc., all that did was honestly pour gasoline on an earnings fire for most financial institutions, with no apparent goal...they completely misread the situation and the “fix” (which was really to do nothing). And to top it all off, they essentially used all their dry powder so now if action IS needed, where do they go? Negative rates? $10T on their balance sheet?

Fed done fucked up....
Boom.

In real terms rates are already negative. European countries (particularly France and Germany) that went ZIRP and NIRP a few years ago in response to the financial crisis have found it impossible to exit from those policies. There is no reason to believe the Fed will be able to do what France and Germany apparently can't do.

kalm thinks liquidity has been stabilized by Fed intervention. In a sense he's right. When there is no demand or supply for credit, you have a stable situation. Not a good situation, but a stable one. The liquidity trap is real and we are in a big one now.

Another concern that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is the possibility that the US Dollar will cease to be the global reserve currency. The only silver lining there is that other currencies, particularly the Euro are getting crushed, as well. Still, the Fed seems determined to tempt the world to abandon the US Dollar. The U.S. simply cannot survive without Petrodollars. Muammar Gaddafi found that out the hard way.
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Re: Stupid Things Ocasio-Cortez Says: Megathread

Post by AZGrizFan »

CitadelGrad wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:41 pm
AZGrizFan wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:19 pm


At a time when banks are socking away billions of dollars for projected loan losses from the unnecessary and self-induced economic calamity that’s about to hit, The Fed lowers rates 150 bp and costs us even MORE money on our entire variable rate portfolio....Additionally, any money we had in OUR bank (and yes, even banks have to bank somewhere) is now earning essentially zip squat nada. At my credit union we’ve got $700 million in cash (and growing) sitting earning zero and can’t get people to take it out.I can tell you this: there’s PLENTY of money in the system...and there was even before the fed lowered rates. People are hoarding cash. Plain and simple. And not in their mattresses....but in their bank accounts. Loan payments across the country have been deferred 90 days, and people are sitting on THAT money too, waiting to see what happens with the economy and businesses coming back online. Hell, some folks have MORE money (thanks to the brilliance of the CARES package and the $600 weekly unemployment bump) than they did when they were working.

The treasury curve (upon which mortgage pricing is loosely based) is at an historic low (thanks to demand/flight to safety from the stock market crashing, and the Fed’s buying spree (QE8) among other things), so in the midst of this financial crisis we’re about to have a record month of mortgage fundings....problem is, 87% of the $200 million we’re funding this month are refi’s....nobody’s BUYING, they’re all just ratcheting down their mortgage payment...and hey, good for them...banks don’t hold those on their books anyways, for the most part.

Honestly, IMHO the Fed shouldn’t have done shit. This was NOT, in any way, shape or form, an “economic” issue that needed the Fed to adjust their policies. Crashing their rates, opening up their pocketbook and buying up US Debt, etc., all that did was honestly pour gasoline on an earnings fire for most financial institutions, with no apparent goal...they completely misread the situation and the “fix” (which was really to do nothing). And to top it all off, they essentially used all their dry powder so now if action IS needed, where do they go? Negative rates? $10T on their balance sheet?

Fed done fucked up....
Boom.

In real terms rates are already negative. European countries (particularly France and Germany) that went ZIRP and NIRP a few years ago in response to the financial crisis have found it impossible to exit from those policies. There is no reason to believe the Fed will be able to do what France and Germany apparently can't do.

kalm thinks liquidity has been stabilized by Fed intervention. In a sense he's right. When there is no demand or supply for credit, you have a stable situation. Not a good situation, but a stable one. The liquidity trap is real and we are in a big one now.

Another concern that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is the possibility that the US Dollar will cease to be the global reserve currency. The only silver lining there is that other currencies, particularly the Euro are getting crushed, as well. Still, the Fed seems determined to tempt the world to abandon the US Dollar. The U.S. simply cannot survive without Petrodollars. Muammar Gaddafi found that out the hard way.
While I think petrodollars are important, the US economy (typically) is a LOT more diverse than Libya’s is or was....I don’t think it’s DEPENDENT on petrodollars, but the loss of them sure doesn’t help. And we’ve lost them almost completely as the economies across the globe have essentially shut down and demand drops to historic lows over the past several weeks.
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Re: Stupid Things Ocasio-Cortez Says: Megathread

Post by CitadelGrad »

AZGrizFan wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 8:42 am
CitadelGrad wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:41 pm


Boom.

In real terms rates are already negative. European countries (particularly France and Germany) that went ZIRP and NIRP a few years ago in response to the financial crisis have found it impossible to exit from those policies. There is no reason to believe the Fed will be able to do what France and Germany apparently can't do.

kalm thinks liquidity has been stabilized by Fed intervention. In a sense he's right. When there is no demand or supply for credit, you have a stable situation. Not a good situation, but a stable one. The liquidity trap is real and we are in a big one now.

Another concern that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is the possibility that the US Dollar will cease to be the global reserve currency. The only silver lining there is that other currencies, particularly the Euro are getting crushed, as well. Still, the Fed seems determined to tempt the world to abandon the US Dollar. The U.S. simply cannot survive without Petrodollars. Muammar Gaddafi found that out the hard way.
While I think petrodollars are important, the US economy (typically) is a LOT more diverse than Libya’s is or was....I don’t think it’s DEPENDENT on petrodollars, but the loss of them sure doesn’t help. And we’ve lost them almost completely as the economies across the globe have essentially shut down and demand drops to historic lows over the past several weeks.
I wasn't comparing the U.S. economy to Libya's. I was pointing out that Q acquiesced to every demand made by the West, but he had the audacity to reject the petrodollar as payment for Libyan oil. Now he's deader than fried chicken. That's no coincidence.

Russia has been making an effort to destroy the petrodollar for quite a while. China hasn't agreed because they are afraid our response will be to default on all those Treasuries China holds. Saudi Arabia hasn't agreed because they are scared shitless of Iran and need us as an ally.
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Re: Stupid Things Ocasio-Cortez Says: Megathread

Post by mainejeff »

Ivytalk wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 4:19 pm
mainejeff wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:50 pm
This was a great exchange the other day between AOC and Fucker Carlson.....

Well. That hurt.

Says Jearf while fantasizing about a threesome with Carlson and Hannity.
Where's the emoji for vomiting?

:coffee:
Go Black Bears!

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