RBG has Cancer...Again

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Re: RBG has Cancer...Again

Post by UNI88 »

SeattleGriz wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:09 pm
Ibanez wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:36 pm

There is.
No there isn't. 8-)
There is ... from both sides. There are differences between now and 2016 but there are also enough similarities that both sides can be called hypocrites.

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Re: RBG has Cancer...Again

Post by SDHornet »

Ted Cruz breaks down the numbers in similar situations. 29 SCOTUS vacancies in POTUS election years. 29 nominations by the POTUS. 19 times have been with POTUS and Senate controlled by the same party, 17 times nominee has been confirmed. 10 times with deferring POTUS and Senate parties with only 2 confirmations.


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Re: RBG has Cancer...Again

Post by SDHornet »

Interesting take...



I hope Trump goes with Lagoa and Team Brown gets another one on SCOTUS. Plus watching the media tear down one of our own because she doesn't align with their plantation mindset will alienate even more Brown voters from Biden and his angry band of Marxists. 8-) :popcorn:

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Re: RBG has Cancer...Again

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Re: RBG has Cancer...Again

Post by Ibanez »

SeattleGriz wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:09 pm
Ibanez wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:36 pm


There is.
No there isn't. 8-)

Damnit...you got me. :lol: :mrgreen:
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Re: RBG has Cancer...Again

Post by Ibanez »

.
Last edited by Ibanez on Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RBG has Cancer...Again

Post by Ibanez »

SDHornet wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:30 pm
Republicans were against it before the were for it. :lol:
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Re: RBG has Cancer...Again

Post by BDKJMU »

I agree with Klochbar:
BLM: Burning Looting Marxists

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Re: RBG has Cancer...Again

Post by Ibanez »

BDKJMU wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:10 am
I agree with Klochbar:
Well no shit. That's the not the issue.
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Re: RBG has Cancer...Again

Post by 89Hen »

Ibanez wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:55 am
Well no shit. That's the not the issue.
What is? That everyone surrounding this issue are hypocrites?
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Re: RBG has Cancer...Again

Post by 89Hen »

SDHornet wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:57 pm
Ted Cruz breaks down the numbers in similar situations. 29 SCOTUS vacancies in POTUS election years. 29 nominations by the POTUS. 19 times have been with POTUS and Senate controlled by the same party, 17 times nominee has been confirmed. 10 times with deferring POTUS and Senate parties with only 2 confirmations.
Pretty tough numbers to dispute.
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Re: RBG has Cancer...Again

Post by ∞∞∞ »

BDKJMU wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:10 am
I agree with Klochbar:
I agree with Klobuchar.

I also agree if it was changed to this: The People pick the Legislature; the Legislature increases the size of the Judiciary. That is how it works.

SCOTUS keeps overturning the will of the People? Weaken it, because that's fundamental checks and balances. If the nation becomes more progressive with time (as is happening), it's asinine to think a conservative court should hold us back. The Executive and Legislative branches - as elected by the People - should knock down a Judicial branch not working for the People. In fact, it's their Constitutional duty.

The Constitution, while flawed, does have some beauty to it.

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Re: RBG has Cancer...Again

Post by 89Hen »

∞∞∞ wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:45 am
The Constitution, while flawed, does have some beauty to it.
:shock:
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Re: RBG has Cancer...Again

Post by Ibanez »

89Hen wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:01 am
∞∞∞ wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:45 am
The Constitution, while flawed, does have some beauty to it.
:shock:
He should've stopped with " I agree"
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Re: RBG has Cancer...Again

Post by ∞∞∞ »

89Hen wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:01 am
∞∞∞ wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:45 am
The Constitution, while flawed, does have some beauty to it.
:shock:
The flaws are pretty severe. It's a triumvirate type system where two branches will always gang up on one - a major reason historical triumvirates end up falling into disarray.

The Constitution also weakens the Legislative branch (the one which best represents the People) by further dividing it into two.

In a good democratic system, the Legislative branch would be the most powerful, with the Executive being a voice of the legislature. Our system was specifically built to keep power in the hands of privelaged men so the Legislative branch is the weakest. Unlike the Executive and Judicial which are checked by two branches, the Legislative is divided into a House and Senate...which means it also checks itself.

Two Legislative chambers checking themselves is great - and necessary - in any Republic if the other branches were extensions of the legislature. However, we have a significantly handicapped Legislative branch within the framework of Constitutional powers. Again, it must contend with the Executive branch, the Judicial branch, and itself. The Executive and Judicial branches must only contend with the other two branches (and in terms of the Executive nominating appointees, only half the Legislative branch).

But this was purposefully designed by the Framers so the Executive and Judicial branches (typically the most wealthy, educated, privelaged men) can easily overpower the Legislative branch and take away power from the People. It's fundamentally the same reasons we have an electoral college and the Constitution was written in a way which is difficult to amend.

If we're going to have it this way though, I'm ok with the Legislative doing EVERYTHING it can to weaken the other two.
Last edited by ∞∞∞ on Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: RBG has Cancer...Again

Post by GannonFan »

∞∞∞ wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:37 am
89Hen wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:01 am


:shock:
The flaws are pretty severe. It's a triumvirate type system where two branches will always gang up on one - a major reason historical triumvirates end up falling into disarray.

The Constitution also weakens the Legislative branch (the one which best represents the People) by further dividing it into two.

In a good democratic system, the Legislative branch would be the most powerful, with the Executive being a voice of the legislature. Our system was specifically built to keep power in the hands of privelaged men so the Legislative Branch is the weakest. Unlike the Executive and Judicial which are checked by two branches, the Legislative is divided into a House and Senate...which means it also checks itself.

Two Legislative chambers checking themselves is great in any Republic if the other branches were extensions of the legislature (as they should be). However, we have a significantly handicapped Legislative branch within the framework of Constitutional powers. Again, it must contend with itself, the Executive Branch, and the Judicial Branch. The Executive and Judicial branches must only contend with the other two branches...and in terms of the Executive nominating appointees...only half the Legislative branch.

But this was purposefully designed by the Framers so the Executive and Judicial branches (typically the most wealthy, educated, privelaged people) can easily overpower the Legislative branch and take away power from the People. It's really the same reasons we have an electoral college and the Constitution was written in a way that it's difficult to amend.
Dude, your understanding and comprehension of history and civics is truly staggering in terms of its incompleteness and incorrectness. If you really think the Framers were purposely planning to set up the Judiciary to be perhaps the strongest of the three branches and for it to exist to take power away from the people, then you need to get on the phone today and bitterly complain to the school board of the district that fed you that bastardization of history. And if you learned that tripe in college then you are probably entitled to a refund or you should seriously consider never donating to that institution again. You've been bamboozled.
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Re: RBG has Cancer...Again

Post by ∞∞∞ »

GannonFan wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:46 am
∞∞∞ wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:37 am


The flaws are pretty severe. It's a triumvirate type system where two branches will always gang up on one - a major reason historical triumvirates end up falling into disarray.

The Constitution also weakens the Legislative branch (the one which best represents the People) by further dividing it into two.

In a good democratic system, the Legislative branch would be the most powerful, with the Executive being a voice of the legislature. Our system was specifically built to keep power in the hands of privelaged men so the Legislative Branch is the weakest. Unlike the Executive and Judicial which are checked by two branches, the Legislative is divided into a House and Senate...which means it also checks itself.

Two Legislative chambers checking themselves is great in any Republic if the other branches were extensions of the legislature (as they should be). However, we have a significantly handicapped Legislative branch within the framework of Constitutional powers. Again, it must contend with itself, the Executive Branch, and the Judicial Branch. The Executive and Judicial branches must only contend with the other two branches...and in terms of the Executive nominating appointees...only half the Legislative branch.

But this was purposefully designed by the Framers so the Executive and Judicial branches (typically the most wealthy, educated, privelaged people) can easily overpower the Legislative branch and take away power from the People. It's really the same reasons we have an electoral college and the Constitution was written in a way that it's difficult to amend.
Dude, your understanding and comprehension of history and civics is truly staggering in terms of its incompleteness and incorrectness. If you really think the Framers were purposely planning to set up the Judiciary to be perhaps the strongest of the three branches and for it to exist to take power away from the people, then you need to get on the phone today and bitterly complain to the school board of the district that fed you that bastardization of history. And if you learned that tripe in college then you are probably entitled to a refund or you should seriously consider never donating to that institution again. You've been bamboozled.
Bamboozled or not, the system is set up this way. It was set up by white, privelaged men of their times with little to no input from anyone who would be represented by the Constitution, and we've continued this set-up as our foundation. The Constitution makes it difficult to take into account the needs of regular citizenry because it divides and checks the branch which best represents the People.

Instead of quickly changing items which citizens may want through democratic representation, items end up being generational battles, including battles against past necessities (ex. lifetime appointments from 30 year ago dictating today's path).

We can argue the history, but the practical flaws are still there.

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Re: RBG has Cancer...Again

Post by Baldy »

∞∞∞ wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:45 am
SCOTUS keeps overturning the will of the People? Weaken it, because that's fundamental checks and balances. If the nation becomes more progressive with time (as is happening), it's asinine to think a conservative court should hold us back. The Executive and Legislative branches - as elected by the People - should knock down a Judicial branch not working for the People. In fact, it's their Constitutional duty.

The Constitution, while flawed, does have some beauty to it.
Image

To paraphrase John Adams, the United States is a nation of laws, not men. The role of the judiciary isn't to work for the people. It's job is to apply the law, period. It is insulated and cannot be subject to sudden whims of "the people".

I see why you hate the Constitution so much. You don't understand it.

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Re: RBG has Cancer...Again

Post by 89Hen »

To hear Trip even try to debate the framers in any way is funny in and of itself.
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Re: RBG has Cancer...Again

Post by Ibanez »

∞∞∞ wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:37 am
89Hen wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:01 am


:shock:
The flaws are pretty severe. It's a triumvirate type system where two branches will always gang up on one - a major reason historical triumvirates end up falling into disarray.

The Constitution also weakens the Legislative branch (the one which best represents the People) by further dividing it into two.

In a good democratic system, the Legislative branch would be the most powerful, with the Executive being a voice of the legislature. Our system was specifically built to keep power in the hands of privelaged men so the Legislative branch is the weakest. Unlike the Executive and Judicial which are checked by two branches, the Legislative is divided into a House and Senate...which means it also checks itself.

Two Legislative chambers checking themselves is great - and necessary - in any Republic if the other branches were extensions of the legislature. However, we have a significantly handicapped Legislative branch within the framework of Constitutional powers. Again, it must contend with the Executive branch, the Judicial branch, and itself. The Executive and Judicial branches must only contend with the other two branches (and in terms of the Executive nominating appointees, only half the Legislative branch).

But this was purposefully designed by the Framers so the Executive and Judicial branches (typically the most wealthy, educated, privelaged men) can easily overpower the Legislative branch and take away power from the People. It's fundamentally the same reasons we have an electoral college and the Constitution was written in a way which is difficult to amend.

If we're going to have it this way though, I'm ok with the Legislative doing EVERYTHING it can to weaken the other two.
There's so much to unpack here. I'll need a bellhop. CID - get some knobs over here now!

First - no form of government and it's constitution is perfect. Ours isn't, that's for sure. That's why we have amendments to it.

Our Legislative Branch, by design, is the strongest. That was the framers intent. They just fought a war against a monarch which trampled on citizens rights. A strong, executive was what the founders feared. The legislature has abdicated a lot of it's power and that's been picked up by the Executive. If you want to blame someone...blame our feckless legislatures that have routinely "given" the Executive more power (allowed it to have more power). You can thank FDR for the incredible executive overreach.

I stopped reading after you failed to grasp the basics of our constitution.
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Re: RBG has Cancer...Again

Post by Ibanez »

∞∞∞ wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:03 am
GannonFan wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:46 am


Dude, your understanding and comprehension of history and civics is truly staggering in terms of its incompleteness and incorrectness. If you really think the Framers were purposely planning to set up the Judiciary to be perhaps the strongest of the three branches and for it to exist to take power away from the people, then you need to get on the phone today and bitterly complain to the school board of the district that fed you that bastardization of history. And if you learned that tripe in college then you are probably entitled to a refund or you should seriously consider never donating to that institution again. You've been bamboozled.
Bamboozled or not, the system is set up this way. It was set up by white, privelaged men of their times with little to no input from anyone who would be represented by the Constitution, and we've continued this set-up as our foundation. The Constitution makes it difficult to take into account the needs of regular citizenry because it divides and checks the branch which best represents the People.

Instead of quickly changing items which citizens may want through democratic representation, items end up being generational battles, including battles against past necessities (ex. lifetime appointments from 30 year ago dictating today's path).

We can argue the history, but the practical flaws are still there.
But it isn't. It's EVOLVED to what it's become. It was OBVIOUSLY set up by the men of their times and it's been amended by the people of its time. The Peoples Representatives gave the power to the Executive. The Executive took power to make change. It has evolved.
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Re: RBG has Cancer...Again

Post by ∞∞∞ »

Ibanez wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:42 am
∞∞∞ wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:03 am


Bamboozled or not, the system is set up this way. It was set up by white, privelaged men of their times with little to no input from anyone who would be represented by the Constitution, and we've continued this set-up as our foundation. The Constitution makes it difficult to take into account the needs of regular citizenry because it divides and checks the branch which best represents the People.

Instead of quickly changing items which citizens may want through democratic representation, items end up being generational battles, including battles against past necessities (ex. lifetime appointments from 30 year ago dictating today's path).

We can argue the history, but the practical flaws are still there.
But it isn't. It's EVOLVED to what it's become. It was OBVIOUSLY set up by the men of their times and it's been amended by the people of its time. The Peoples Representatives gave the power to the Executive. The Executive took power to make change. It has evolved.
Perfect, so there's no Constitutional issue if the Legislative Branch wants to weaken the Judicial branch and make it its b*tch. That's what we call a "check." The voters can then decide if it the representatives made the correct decision or not.

The Constitution is working exactly as intended.

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Re: RBG has Cancer...Again

Post by ∞∞∞ »

Baldy wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:19 am

To paraphrase John Adams, the United States is a nation of laws, not men. The role of the judiciary isn't to work for the people. It's job is to apply the law, period. It is insulated and cannot be subject to sudden whims of "the people".

I see why you hate the Constitution so much. You don't understand it.
The entire government works for the People, including the Judicial branch. Additionally, the system works on each branch interpreting the Constitution how it wants, and battling the interpretations of the other branches. The SCOTUS doesn't have to strictly apply law.

Ultimately, any constitution is a philosophical agreement on how to run society: they can be interpreted differently, misunderstood, disagreed with, broken, consequences handed, rewards given. We're in a period where there's lots of disagreements on it, but we'll coalesce around one eventually...until we start disagreeing again.

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Re: RBG has Cancer...Again

Post by UNI88 »

∞∞∞ wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:45 am
I also agree if it was changed to this: The People pick the Legislature; the Legislature increases the size of the Judiciary. That is how it works.

SCOTUS keeps overturning the will of the People? Weaken it, because that's fundamental checks and balances. If the nation becomes more progressive with time (as is happening), it's asinine to think a conservative court should hold us back. The Executive and Legislative branches - as elected by the People - should knock down a Judicial branch not working for the People. In fact, it's their Constitutional duty.

The Constitution, while flawed, does have some beauty to it.
If the role of government is to enforce the "will of the People" and the "will of the People" is defined by what the majority wants then the last 200+ years of white people dominating culturally, economically, etc. was completely justified because that's what the majority of the people wanted.

Your ignorance and arrogance in believing that the will of the majority should always be followed is worse than any arrogance or nefarious purpose that you accuse the founders of.

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Re: RBG has Cancer...Again

Post by SDHornet »

I love seeing Trip and his Marxist ideals getting pummeled in threads like these. :lol: :nod:

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