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kalm wrote:

Ibanez wrote: I can see that.
In between semesters, college professors aren't just siting on their hands. When my father in law was teaching college, he'd was working 12 months, that included running multiple summer camps, writing or editing cookbooks, developing curriculum, conducting professional certification and continuing education courses, planning for the upcoming semesters.

It's different than adjunct professors like my wife who might teach of 3 semesters straight then not have a class for 1-2 semesters.

And most K-12 teachers I know are either going through continuing Ed during summers, teaching summer school, moonlighting the wheat harvest, working at golf courses, volunteering as coaches, etc.

Those who can, teach. Those who can’t often have no clue regarding the profession and are simply bitching about those massive teacher’s salaries.

Well, my wife is a teacher, a lot of my family were teachers, and while what you say is/was certainly true of teachers just starting and in their 20's, that's not really the case when they're older and more established. Summers are spent just relaxing and recuperating from the past school year. Granted, I live in probably one of the best areas in the country in terms of what K-12 teachers make in terms of salary, so there isn't the same incentive to work over those 8-9 weeks in the summer.

AZ said professors, so I'm assuming he meant to exclude adjunct or non-tenure track instructors.

In my experience, before they get tenure profs tend to work year-round, and often fairly long hours. In the programs I'm familiar with, they need to get a bunch of research done (papers published) to climb the rungs up the ladder and get tenured. So during the school year they are teaching a full load and trying to keep their research going. Summers are more relaxed as they generally don't have to teach and can concentrate on their research. But their pay is generally lower at that stage of their career so they often pick up a class to teach to augment their income.

Once they've got tenure, it may change significantly. Some don't enjoy research so they cut back to just teaching their required load. Some enjoy teaching so they they teach during the summer session, some prefer research, etc.

AZGrizFan wrote:

Ibanez wrote:
I didn’t say that, Tom.

Those summer camps, CE courses, editing were all done through the college. At the college. On location. He was paid by the school.

Trust me, AZ. I know more about my experience than you. You asked for an example and I supplied one. He wasn’t alone either so you can count that as 10 more cases. Just at one school.


My sister used to teach nursing. Even during the summer, she would teach summer classes and work as a liaison between the school and local hospitals year round. Nursing students will go to work in the hospitals as part of the curriculum.



I’ll wait for you to tell me what I witnessed for 9 years was a fabrication.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's called anecdotal evidence. Look it up.

AZGrizFan wrote:
Lol. Please show me a college professor that works 12 months a year. That’s fucking comical.

I showed you two. You asked for anecdotal evidence. You didn't request a study.

catbooster wrote:AZ said professors, so I'm assuming he meant to exclude adjunct or non-tenure track instructors.

In my experience, before they get tenure profs tend to work year-round, and often fairly long hours. In the programs I'm familiar with, they need to get a bunch of research done (papers published) to climb the rungs up the ladder and get tenured. So during the school year they are teaching a full load and trying to keep their research going. Summers are more relaxed as they generally don't have to teach and can concentrate on their research. But their pay is generally lower at that stage of their career so they often pick up a class to teach to augment their income.

Once they've got tenure, it may change significantly. Some don't enjoy research so they cut back to just teaching their required load. Some enjoy teaching so they they teach during the summer session, some prefer research, etc.

Ok. How about the chair of the department, like my FiL.


I would wager that a majority of teachers do not work a year like Tom or I do. Summer school and workshops occur during the summer.

Definitely Department head/chair is year-round at MSU.

catbooster wrote:Definitely Department head/chair is year-round at MSU.

Interesting.

Ibanez wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:
It's called anecdotal evidence. Look it up.

AZGrizFan wrote:
Lol. Please show me a college professor that works 12 months a year. That’s fucking comical.

I showed you two. You asked for anecdotal evidence. You didn't request a study.

Checkmate.

catbooster wrote:AZ said professors, so I'm assuming he meant to exclude adjunct or non-tenure track instructors.

In my experience, before they get tenure profs tend to work year-round, and often fairly long hours. In the programs I'm familiar with, they need to get a bunch of research done (papers published) to climb the rungs up the ladder and get tenured. So during the school year they are teaching a full load and trying to keep their research going. Summers are more relaxed as they generally don't have to teach and can concentrate on their research. But their pay is generally lower at that stage of their career so they often pick up a class to teach to augment their income.

Once they've got tenure, it may change significantly. Some don't enjoy research so they cut back to just teaching their required load. Some enjoy teaching so they they teach during the summer session, some prefer research, etc.

What is considered a "full load" for a college professor? How many classes do they typically teach in a given semester? Honest question, as I really don't know.

kalm wrote: Those who can, teach. Those who can’t often have no clue regarding the profession and are simply bitching about those massive teacher’s salaries.

Klammy, getting it wrong since 1973.

It's "Those who can, DO. Those who can't, TEACH."

AZGrizFan wrote:Lol. Please show me a college professor that works. That’s **** comical.

FIFY


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AZGrizFan wrote:

kalm wrote: Those who can, teach. Those who can’t often have no clue regarding the profession and are simply bitching about those massive teacher’s salaries.

Klammy, getting it wrong since 1973.

It's "Those who can, DO. Those who can't, TEACH."

No shit? That’s how the saying goes?

Well I’ll be darned!

kalm wrote:
Man, you are all over the map with this one.

All over the map is comparing teachers salaries to professional athletes salaries
which requires a full 1,500 word explanation as to just how stupid that is

it's irreconcilable in it's stupidity
and antipodal in its position

AZGrizFan wrote:What is considered a "full load" for a college professor? How many classes do they typically teach in a given semester? Honest question, as I really don't know.

As I recall, it was 3 courses per semester plus some requirements for advising, outreach and/or research.

Some research grants would allow them to "buy back" a portion of their time - essentially some of the grant money could be used to fund someone else to teach a class, thereby freeing up more of their time for the research.

I think there may be parallel tracks that they can get onto that allow less teaching (two courses) and more time towards research, but that may have been the situation I mentioned above with grants funding the teaching reduction.

I suspect there is some variation between departments/colleges, but that's how it's been for the guys I know in engineering.

Chizzang wrote:

kalm wrote:
Man, you are all over the map with this one.

All over the map is comparing teachers salaries to professional athletes salaries
which requires a full 1,500 word explanation as to just how stupid that is

it's irreconcilable in it's stupidity
and antipodal in its position

Say what?

We can afford billion dollar/decade compensation for United Healthcare’s CEO but we just have to charge $7,000 for life saving drugs that cost 5 bucks in R&D and to produce per prescription?

You’ve been reading Ayn Rand again, haven’t you?

But you have no problem with socialism?

Btw, I had to look up “antipodal”. Thanks for the learnin’!

kalm wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:
Klammy, getting it wrong since 1973.

It's "Those who can, DO. Those who can't, TEACH."

No shit? That’s how the saying goes?

Well I’ll be darned!

AZGrizFan wrote:

Ibanez wrote:
I showed you two. You asked for anecdotal evidence. You didn't request a study.

Checkmate.

We're here to keep each other honest, Tom.

AZGrizFan wrote:

catbooster wrote:AZ said professors, so I'm assuming he meant to exclude adjunct or non-tenure track instructors.

In my experience, before they get tenure profs tend to work year-round, and often fairly long hours. In the programs I'm familiar with, they need to get a bunch of research done (papers published) to climb the rungs up the ladder and get tenured. So during the school year they are teaching a full load and trying to keep their research going. Summers are more relaxed as they generally don't have to teach and can concentrate on their research. But their pay is generally lower at that stage of their career so they often pick up a class to teach to augment their income.

Once they've got tenure, it may change significantly. Some don't enjoy research so they cut back to just teaching their required load. Some enjoy teaching so they they teach during the summer session, some prefer research, etc.

What is considered a "full load" for a college professor? How many classes do they typically teach in a given semester? Honest question, as I really don't know.

What would be even more interesting is how many of those classes are taught by graduate students? I had 1 professor for 3 different classes at CCU. He was there on the first and last days. His grad students were there for the classes in between.

Ibanez wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:
What is considered a "full load" for a college professor? How many classes do they typically teach in a given semester? Honest question, as I really don't know.

What would be even more interesting is how many of those classes are taught by graduate students? I had 1 professor for 3 different classes at CCU. He was there on the first and last days. His grad students were there for the classes in between.

THESE are the jag offs I was referring to previously....

AZGrizFan wrote:

Ibanez wrote: What would be even more interesting is how many of those classes are taught by graduate students? I had 1 professor for 3 different classes at CCU. He was there on the first and last days. His grad students were there for the classes in between.

THESE are the jag offs I was referring to previously....

Got it. I figured as much.

kalm wrote:

Chizzang wrote:
All over the map is comparing teachers salaries to professional athletes salaries
which requires a full 1,500 word explanation as to just how stupid that is

it's irreconcilable in it's stupidity
and antipodal in its position

Say what?

We can afford billion dollar/decade compensation for United Healthcare’s CEO but we just have to charge $7,000 for life saving drugs that cost 5 bucks in R&D and to produce per prescription?

Greed is good!

Ivytalk wrote:

kalm wrote:
Say what?

We can afford billion dollar/decade compensation for United Healthcare’s CEO but we just have to charge $7,000 for life saving drugs that cost 5 bucks in R&D and to produce per prescription?

Greed is good!

kalm wrote:
Btw, I had to look up “antipodal”. Thanks for the learnin’!

Yup, same here, just did and I'm a teensy bit smarter than I was prior to doing so!

GannonFan wrote:

kalm wrote:
Btw, I had to look up “antipodal”. Thanks for the learnin’!

Yup, same here, just did and I'm a teensy bit smarter than I was prior to doing so!

Yeah, Chizzang is a regular sesquipedalian. Bill Buckley Junior, he is.

Ivytalk wrote:

GannonFan wrote:
Yup, same here, just did and I'm a teensy bit smarter than I was prior to doing so!

Yeah, Chizzang is a regular sesquipedalian. Bill Buckley Junior, he is.

I always thought pithy was such a great word - it just sounds and looks like what it means. Brilliant!

I think it's safe to say that this thread has swerved off topic.