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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 9:21 am
by GannonFan
kalm wrote:
Ibanez wrote: I can see that.
In between semesters, college professors aren't just siting on their hands. When my father in law was teaching college, he'd was working 12 months, that included running multiple summer camps, writing or editing cookbooks, developing curriculum, conducting professional certification and continuing education courses, planning for the upcoming semesters.

It's different than adjunct professors like my wife who might teach of 3 semesters straight then not have a class for 1-2 semesters.


And most K-12 teachers I know are either going through continuing Ed during summers, teaching summer school, moonlighting the wheat harvest, working at golf courses, volunteering as coaches, etc.

Those who can, teach. Those who can’t often have no clue regarding the profession and are simply bitching about those massive teacher’s salaries.

:jack:


Well, my wife is a teacher, a lot of my family were teachers, and while what you say is/was certainly true of teachers just starting and in their 20's, that's not really the case when they're older and more established. Summers are spent just relaxing and recuperating from the past school year. Granted, I live in probably one of the best areas in the country in terms of what K-12 teachers make in terms of salary, so there isn't the same incentive to work over those 8-9 weeks in the summer.

Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 9:29 am
by catbooster
AZ said professors, so I'm assuming he meant to exclude adjunct or non-tenure track instructors.

In my experience, before they get tenure profs tend to work year-round, and often fairly long hours. In the programs I'm familiar with, they need to get a bunch of research done (papers published) to climb the rungs up the ladder and get tenured. So during the school year they are teaching a full load and trying to keep their research going. Summers are more relaxed as they generally don't have to teach and can concentrate on their research. But their pay is generally lower at that stage of their career so they often pick up a class to teach to augment their income.

Once they've got tenure, it may change significantly. Some don't enjoy research so they cut back to just teaching their required load. Some enjoy teaching so they they teach during the summer session, some prefer research, etc.

Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 9:51 am
by Ibanez
AZGrizFan wrote:
Ibanez wrote:
I didn’t say that, Tom.

Those summer camps, CE courses, editing were all done through the college. At the college. On location. He was paid by the school.

Trust me, AZ. I know more about my experience than you. You asked for an example and I supplied one. He wasn’t alone either so you can count that as 10 more cases. Just at one school.


My sister used to teach nursing. Even during the summer, she would teach summer classes and work as a liaison between the school and local hospitals year round. Nursing students will go to work in the hospitals as part of the curriculum.



I’ll wait for you to tell me what I witnessed for 9 years was a fabrication.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's called anecdotal evidence. Look it up.

AZGrizFan wrote:
Lol. Please show me a college professor that works 12 months a year. That’s fucking comical.

I showed you two. You asked for anecdotal evidence. You didn't request a study.

Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 9:56 am
by Ibanez
catbooster wrote:AZ said professors, so I'm assuming he meant to exclude adjunct or non-tenure track instructors.

In my experience, before they get tenure profs tend to work year-round, and often fairly long hours. In the programs I'm familiar with, they need to get a bunch of research done (papers published) to climb the rungs up the ladder and get tenured. So during the school year they are teaching a full load and trying to keep their research going. Summers are more relaxed as they generally don't have to teach and can concentrate on their research. But their pay is generally lower at that stage of their career so they often pick up a class to teach to augment their income.

Once they've got tenure, it may change significantly. Some don't enjoy research so they cut back to just teaching their required load. Some enjoy teaching so they they teach during the summer session, some prefer research, etc.

Ok. How about the chair of the department, like my FiL. :coffee:


I would wager that a majority of teachers do not work a year like Tom or I do. Summer school and workshops occur during the summer.

Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 10:08 am
by catbooster
Definitely Department head/chair is year-round at MSU.

Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 10:13 am
by Ibanez
catbooster wrote:Definitely Department head/chair is year-round at MSU.

Interesting. :coffee:

Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 12:24 pm
by AZGrizFan
Ibanez wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
It's called anecdotal evidence. Look it up.

AZGrizFan wrote:
Lol. Please show me a college professor that works 12 months a year. That’s fucking comical.

I showed you two. You asked for anecdotal evidence. You didn't request a study.


Checkmate. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 12:25 pm
by AZGrizFan
catbooster wrote:AZ said professors, so I'm assuming he meant to exclude adjunct or non-tenure track instructors.

In my experience, before they get tenure profs tend to work year-round, and often fairly long hours. In the programs I'm familiar with, they need to get a bunch of research done (papers published) to climb the rungs up the ladder and get tenured. So during the school year they are teaching a full load and trying to keep their research going. Summers are more relaxed as they generally don't have to teach and can concentrate on their research. But their pay is generally lower at that stage of their career so they often pick up a class to teach to augment their income.

Once they've got tenure, it may change significantly. Some don't enjoy research so they cut back to just teaching their required load. Some enjoy teaching so they they teach during the summer session, some prefer research, etc.


What is considered a "full load" for a college professor? How many classes do they typically teach in a given semester? Honest question, as I really don't know.

Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 12:26 pm
by AZGrizFan
kalm wrote:Those who can, teach. Those who can’t often have no clue regarding the profession and are simply bitching about those massive teacher’s salaries.

:jack:


Klammy, getting it wrong since 1973. :lol: :lol:

It's "Those who can, DO. Those who can't, TEACH." :dunce: :dunce: :dunce:

Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 1:21 pm
by css75
AZGrizFan wrote:Lol. Please show me a college professor that works. That’s **** comical.


FIFY


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 1:27 pm
by kalm
AZGrizFan wrote:
kalm wrote:Those who can, teach. Those who can’t often have no clue regarding the profession and are simply bitching about those massive teacher’s salaries.

:jack:


Klammy, getting it wrong since 1973. :lol: :lol:

It's "Those who can, DO. Those who can't, TEACH." :dunce: :dunce: :dunce:


No shit? That’s how the saying goes?

Well I’ll be darned!

:coffee:

Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 4:11 pm
by Chizzang
kalm wrote:
Man, you are all over the map with this one. :|


All over the map is comparing teachers salaries to professional athletes salaries
which requires a full 1,500 word explanation as to just how stupid that is

it's irreconcilable in it's stupidity
and antipodal in its position

Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 5:15 pm
by catbooster
AZGrizFan wrote:What is considered a "full load" for a college professor? How many classes do they typically teach in a given semester? Honest question, as I really don't know.

As I recall, it was 3 courses per semester plus some requirements for advising, outreach and/or research.

Some research grants would allow them to "buy back" a portion of their time - essentially some of the grant money could be used to fund someone else to teach a class, thereby freeing up more of their time for the research.

I think there may be parallel tracks that they can get onto that allow less teaching (two courses) and more time towards research, but that may have been the situation I mentioned above with grants funding the teaching reduction.

I suspect there is some variation between departments/colleges, but that's how it's been for the guys I know in engineering.

Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 5:25 pm
by kalm
Chizzang wrote:
kalm wrote:
Man, you are all over the map with this one. :|


All over the map is comparing teachers salaries to professional athletes salaries
which requires a full 1,500 word explanation as to just how stupid that is

it's irreconcilable in it's stupidity
and antipodal in its position


Say what?

We can afford billion dollar/decade compensation for United Healthcare’s CEO but we just have to charge $7,000 for life saving drugs that cost 5 bucks in R&D and to produce per prescription?

You’ve been reading Ayn Rand again, haven’t you? :ohno:

But you have no problem with socialism? :suspicious:

Btw, I had to look up “antipodal”. Thanks for the learnin’!

Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 9:43 pm
by AZGrizFan
kalm wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
Klammy, getting it wrong since 1973. :lol: :lol:

It's "Those who can, DO. Those who can't, TEACH." :dunce: :dunce: :dunce:


No shit? That’s how the saying goes?

Well I’ll be darned!

:coffee:

:lol: :kisswink:

Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 6:28 am
by Ibanez
AZGrizFan wrote:
Ibanez wrote:
I showed you two. You asked for anecdotal evidence. You didn't request a study.


Checkmate. :lol: :lol: :lol:

:thumb: We're here to keep each other honest, Tom. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 6:29 am
by Ibanez
AZGrizFan wrote:
catbooster wrote:AZ said professors, so I'm assuming he meant to exclude adjunct or non-tenure track instructors.

In my experience, before they get tenure profs tend to work year-round, and often fairly long hours. In the programs I'm familiar with, they need to get a bunch of research done (papers published) to climb the rungs up the ladder and get tenured. So during the school year they are teaching a full load and trying to keep their research going. Summers are more relaxed as they generally don't have to teach and can concentrate on their research. But their pay is generally lower at that stage of their career so they often pick up a class to teach to augment their income.

Once they've got tenure, it may change significantly. Some don't enjoy research so they cut back to just teaching their required load. Some enjoy teaching so they they teach during the summer session, some prefer research, etc.


What is considered a "full load" for a college professor? How many classes do they typically teach in a given semester? Honest question, as I really don't know.

What would be even more interesting is how many of those classes are taught by graduate students? I had 1 professor for 3 different classes at CCU. He was there on the first and last days. His grad students were there for the classes in between.

Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 6:33 am
by AZGrizFan
Ibanez wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
What is considered a "full load" for a college professor? How many classes do they typically teach in a given semester? Honest question, as I really don't know.

What would be even more interesting is how many of those classes are taught by graduate students? I had 1 professor for 3 different classes at CCU. He was there on the first and last days. His grad students were there for the classes in between.


THESE are the jag offs I was referring to previously.... :coffee:

Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 6:34 am
by Ibanez
AZGrizFan wrote:
Ibanez wrote:What would be even more interesting is how many of those classes are taught by graduate students? I had 1 professor for 3 different classes at CCU. He was there on the first and last days. His grad students were there for the classes in between.


THESE are the jag offs I was referring to previously.... :coffee:

:lol: :lol: Got it. I figured as much.

Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 6:47 am
by Ivytalk
kalm wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
All over the map is comparing teachers salaries to professional athletes salaries
which requires a full 1,500 word explanation as to just how stupid that is

it's irreconcilable in it's stupidity
and antipodal in its position


Say what?

We can afford billion dollar/decade compensation for United Healthcare’s CEO but we just have to charge $7,000 for life saving drugs that cost 5 bucks in R&D and to produce per prescription?



Greed is good! :tothehand:

Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 6:54 am
by kalm
Ivytalk wrote:
kalm wrote:
Say what?

We can afford billion dollar/decade compensation for United Healthcare’s CEO but we just have to charge $7,000 for life saving drugs that cost 5 bucks in R&D and to produce per prescription?



Greed is good! :tothehand:


Image

Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 7:25 am
by GannonFan
kalm wrote:
Btw, I had to look up “antipodal”. Thanks for the learnin’!


Yup, same here, just did and I'm a teensy bit smarter than I was prior to doing so!

Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 9:21 am
by Ivytalk
GannonFan wrote:
kalm wrote:
Btw, I had to look up “antipodal”. Thanks for the learnin’!


Yup, same here, just did and I'm a teensy bit smarter than I was prior to doing so!

Yeah, Chizzang is a regular sesquipedalian. :lol: Bill Buckley Junior, he is.

Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:18 pm
by GannonFan
Ivytalk wrote:
GannonFan wrote:
Yup, same here, just did and I'm a teensy bit smarter than I was prior to doing so!

Yeah, Chizzang is a regular sesquipedalian. :lol: Bill Buckley Junior, he is.


I always thought pithy was such a great word - it just sounds and looks like what it means. Brilliant!

Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 3:11 pm
by JohnStOnge
I think it's safe to say that this thread has swerved off topic.