2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Postby CAA Flagship » Fri May 31, 2019 7:29 am

Chizzang wrote:I think I missed that part..?
Who's gay?


Jon, Jeff, Freddie, and Elton........for starters. Still waiting on lab results for Wee-Tag.

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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Postby Chizzang » Fri May 31, 2019 8:39 am

CAA Flagship wrote:
Chizzang wrote:I think I missed that part..?
Who's gay?


Jon, Jeff, Freddie, and Elton........for starters. Still waiting on lab results for Wee-Tag.


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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Postby Ivytalk » Fri May 31, 2019 8:43 am

Chizzang wrote:
CAA Flagship wrote:
Jon, Jeff, Freddie, and Elton........for starters. Still waiting on lab results for Wee-Tag.


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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Postby CID1990 » Fri May 31, 2019 8:45 am

Chizzang wrote:
CID1990 wrote:Look at all you idiots falling for a “you’re all gay, prove you aren’t” troll

I’m just surprised it was clitz and not Main Jearf



I think I missed that part..?
Who's gay?

:geek:


Here’s me not buying you missed an apt metaphor


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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Postby SDHornet » Fri May 31, 2019 8:47 am

Chizzang wrote:
Ivytalk wrote:
Biden-Edwards would best Trump-Pence by at least 53%-47% and would take back PA, MI, and WI. Having Edwards on the ticket would mobilize Donk minority voters to get to the polls. :twocents:


Meh...
Trump is loved
even by the people that recognize he's a ridiculous twat as well as shockingly uninformed
he's still loved

even by the people that claim they didn't vote for him
like the 20 some odd conservatives on this website that all claim they voted for somebody else

:lol:

Trump 2020

No doubt very true. :lol:

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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Postby SDHornet » Fri May 31, 2019 8:49 am

Chizzang wrote:
Ivytalk wrote:OK. Twenty bucks (remember, I’m retired) says Biden beats Trump if the Donks nominate Joe. If the Donks nominate anyone else, Trump wins. :twocents:


:geek:

I'm in...
as long as there's no "groping exemption"
regardless of his behavior if it's Trump vs Biden we're on for $20

Groping won't stop Biden, D's will just look the other way. :nod:

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Re: RE: Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Postby UNI88 » Fri May 31, 2019 4:04 pm

CAA Flagship wrote:
Chizzang wrote:I think I missed that part..?
Who's gay?


Jon, Jeff, Freddie, Elton and whoever likes to iron ........for starters. Still waiting on lab results for Wee-Tag and Alpha.


FYP :D

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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Postby UNI88 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:11 am

Am I the only person who thinks of this guy when I hear the name Kamala ...

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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Postby UNI88 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:29 am

No comments on Hickenlooper getting booed in Cali?

California Democrats Just Booed A Presidential Candidate Who Attacked Socialism

As Democrats, if we don’t define a clear space between us and socialism, we run the risk of helping to reelect the worst president in American history, and we should take that very seriously,” Hickenlooper told BuzzFeed News in an interview after his remarks. “The Republicans are definitely already trying to paint us into a corner as socialists, and we need to be very clear to say we are not socialists. We believe we can create a better country, with a better future, but it’s not through massive [expansions] of government.


Maybe there are a few more adults than we realized. Unfortunately, the wingnuts in both parties will drive them out.

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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Postby houndawg » Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:07 am

UNI88 wrote:Am I the only person who thinks of this guy when I hear the name Kamala ...

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Probably
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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Postby kalm » Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:56 am

UNI88 wrote:No comments on Hickenlooper getting booed in Cali?

California Democrats Just Booed A Presidential Candidate Who Attacked Socialism

As Democrats, if we don’t define a clear space between us and socialism, we run the risk of helping to reelect the worst president in American history, and we should take that very seriously,” Hickenlooper told BuzzFeed News in an interview after his remarks. “The Republicans are definitely already trying to paint us into a corner as socialists, and we need to be very clear to say we are not socialists. We believe we can create a better country, with a better future, but it’s not through massive [expansions] of government.


Maybe there are a few more adults than we realized. Unfortunately, the wingnuts in both parties will drive them out.


Meh...fear mongering/mis-labeling mixed economy policies using the socialism boogey man to pivot right and appeal to Never-Bernie establishment money is not adulting.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Postby Ivytalk » Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:31 pm

kalm wrote:
UNI88 wrote:No comments on Hickenlooper getting booed in Cali?

California Democrats Just Booed A Presidential Candidate Who Attacked Socialism



Maybe there are a few more adults than we realized. Unfortunately, the wingnuts in both parties will drive them out.


Meh...fear mongering/mis-labeling mixed economy policies using the socialism boogey man to pivot right and appeal to Never-Bernie establishment money is not adulting.

Wut? Too new-age for me, bruh.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Postby kalm » Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:36 pm

Ivytalk wrote:
kalm wrote:
Meh...fear mongering/mis-labeling mixed economy policies using the socialism boogey man to pivot right and appeal to Never-Bernie establishment money is not adulting.

Wut? Too new-age for me, bruh.


Oh...sorry. :oops:

Allow me to simplify...

In a binary system it’s possible to be “moderate” to a fault.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Postby Ivytalk » Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:51 pm

kalm wrote:
Ivytalk wrote:Wut? Too new-age for me, bruh.


Oh...sorry. :oops:

Allow me to simplify...

In a binary system it’s possible to be “moderate” to a fault.

That’s better.

BTW, guess who’s joining the state board of the Delaware Libertarian Party? 8-)
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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Postby kalm » Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:55 pm

Ivytalk wrote:
kalm wrote:
Oh...sorry. :oops:

Allow me to simplify...

In a binary system it’s possible to be “moderate” to a fault.

That’s better.

BTW, guess who’s joining the state board of the Delaware Libertarian Party? 8-)


Good on ya, IT! :clap:
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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Postby UNI88 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:01 pm

houndawg wrote:
UNI88 wrote:Am I the only person who thinks of this guy when I hear the name Kamala ...

Image


Probably


No comments from swamp rats in Illitucky.

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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Postby UNI88 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:14 pm

kalm wrote:
UNI88 wrote:No comments on Hickenlooper getting booed in Cali?

California Democrats Just Booed A Presidential Candidate Who Attacked Socialism

Maybe there are a few more adults than we realized. Unfortunately, the wingnuts in both parties will drive them out.


Meh...fear mongering/mis-labeling mixed economy policies using the socialism boogey man to pivot right and appeal to Never-Bernie establishment money is not adulting.


I call bullshit on this one. Hickenlooper isn't calling for a pivot to the right, he's trying to keep the Democractic Party from making not a pivot but a gigantic leap to the left (toward socialism). Combine the core of the proposals being made by the 2020 candidates and throw in AOC's ideas as well and tell me how they compare to our history. Free college, open borders, universal healthcare, minimum income, eliminating carbon-based emissions, etc. are taking us further to the left than we've ever been in modern-age and while they're lofty ideals they aren't just fiscally irresponsible, they're fiscally insane. Do I think the cost of college is out-of-control insane? Yes but I think free college would end up being a cure that is worse than the disease.

The candidates are veering to the left to appeal to the core but Hickenlooper is right that this is going to hurt them in swing states such as Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Florida and could cost them the election. The wackadoodles on the left are just as stubborn and myopic as the wackadoodles on the right.

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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Postby AZGrizFan » Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:19 pm

UNI88 wrote:
kalm wrote:
Meh...fear mongering/mis-labeling mixed economy policies using the socialism boogey man to pivot right and appeal to Never-Bernie establishment money is not adulting.


I call bullshit on this one. Hickenlooper isn't calling for a pivot to the right, he's trying to keep the Democractic Party from making not a pivot but a gigantic leap to the left (toward socialism). Combine the core of the proposals being made by the 2020 candidates and throw in AOC's ideas as well and tell me how they compare to our history. Free college, open borders, universal healthcare, minimum income, eliminating carbon-based emissions, etc. are taking us further to the left than we've ever been in modern-age and while they're lofty ideals they aren't just fiscally irresponsible, they're fiscally insane. Do I think the cost of college is out-of-control insane? Yes but I think free college would end up being a cure that is worse than the disease.

The candidates are veering to the left to appeal to the core but Hickenlooper is right that this is going to hurt them in swing states such as Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Florida and could cost them the election. The wackadoodles on the left are just as stubborn and myopic as the wackadoodles on the right.


S’all Good, man. JSO is just CERTAIN those states are turning bluer by the minute.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Postby kalm » Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:53 pm

UNI88 wrote:
kalm wrote:
Meh...fear mongering/mis-labeling mixed economy policies using the socialism boogey man to pivot right and appeal to Never-Bernie establishment money is not adulting.


I call bullshit on this one. Hickenlooper isn't calling for a pivot to the right, he's trying to keep the Democractic Party from making not a pivot but a gigantic leap to the left (toward socialism). Combine the core of the proposals being made by the 2020 candidates and throw in AOC's ideas as well and tell me how they compare to our history. Free college, open borders, universal healthcare, minimum income, eliminating carbon-based emissions, etc. are taking us further to the left than we've ever been in modern-age and while they're lofty ideals they aren't just fiscally irresponsible, they're fiscally insane. Do I think the cost of college is out-of-control insane? Yes but I think free college would end up being a cure that is worse than the disease.

The candidates are veering to the left to appeal to the core but Hickenlooper is right that this is going to hurt them in swing states such as Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Florida and could cost them the election. The wackadoodles on the left are just as stubborn and myopic as the wackadoodles on the right.


1). I’d rather have free college than tax free defense spending. At least education investments can lead to innovation and productivity. Endless bombs dropped on sand piles aren’t the kind of GDP expansion we need. Or rent free resource extraction where raw materials are shipped overseas to be sold back to us as “cheaply” manufactured trinkets.

2) the rust ain’t above government spending if it benefits them. They just don’t like coastal elitism.

You’re hyperbole about the evils of socialism is starting to sound like the Trump hater’s fear of the 4th Reich.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Postby UNI88 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:47 pm

kalm wrote:
UNI88 wrote:
I call bullshit on this one. Hickenlooper isn't calling for a pivot to the right, he's trying to keep the Democractic Party from making not a pivot but a gigantic leap to the left (toward socialism). Combine the core of the proposals being made by the 2020 candidates and throw in AOC's ideas as well and tell me how they compare to our history. Free college, open borders, universal healthcare, minimum income, eliminating carbon-based emissions, etc. are taking us further to the left than we've ever been in modern-age and while they're lofty ideals they aren't just fiscally irresponsible, they're fiscally insane. Do I think the cost of college is out-of-control insane? Yes but I think free college would end up being a cure that is worse than the disease.

The candidates are veering to the left to appeal to the core but Hickenlooper is right that this is going to hurt them in swing states such as Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Florida and could cost them the election. The wackadoodles on the left are just as stubborn and myopic as the wackadoodles on the right.


1). I’d rather have free college than tax free defense spending. At least education investments can lead to innovation and productivity. Endless bombs dropped on sand piles aren’t the kind of GDP expansion we need. Or rent free resource extraction where raw materials are shipped overseas to be sold back to us as “cheaply” manufactured trinkets.

2) the rust ain’t above government spending if it benefits them. They just don’t like coastal elitism.

You’re hyperbole about the evils of socialism is starting to sound like the Trump hater’s fear of the 4th Reich.


My problem with the shift to the left isn't so much that it's a move toward Soviet Communism (although I'm on record as believing that in his heart of hearts that's what Bernie wants) it's that:

1) There is no freaking way in hell to pay for all of these pie-in-the-sky programs.

2) The bigger government gets the less effective & efficient it gets. I have no problem with safety nets but let's focus on what's important rather than trying and generally failing to make everything fair.

Do you think free college will end up being an investment in innovation and productivity? Or is it possible that it will decrease the value of a college education forcing people to go to graduate school and decreasing productivity? Not to mention the potential impact of increased taxes on innovation and productivity. And what do you do for people who paid for their education (or paid off their loans if you're talking about student loan forgiveness)? Education from pre-school up is a mess and needs fixing but I don't think free college is the answer.

I'm on board with cutting defense spending starting with subsidizing the defense of Europe.

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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Postby CID1990 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:56 pm

kalm wrote:
UNI88 wrote:
I call bullshit on this one. Hickenlooper isn't calling for a pivot to the right, he's trying to keep the Democractic Party from making not a pivot but a gigantic leap to the left (toward socialism). Combine the core of the proposals being made by the 2020 candidates and throw in AOC's ideas as well and tell me how they compare to our history. Free college, open borders, universal healthcare, minimum income, eliminating carbon-based emissions, etc. are taking us further to the left than we've ever been in modern-age and while they're lofty ideals they aren't just fiscally irresponsible, they're fiscally insane. Do I think the cost of college is out-of-control insane? Yes but I think free college would end up being a cure that is worse than the disease.

The candidates are veering to the left to appeal to the core but Hickenlooper is right that this is going to hurt them in swing states such as Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Florida and could cost them the election. The wackadoodles on the left are just as stubborn and myopic as the wackadoodles on the right.


1). I’d rather have free college than tax free defense spending. At least education investments can lead to innovation and productivity. Endless bombs dropped on sand piles aren’t the kind of GDP expansion we need. Or rent free resource extraction where raw materials are shipped overseas to be sold back to us as “cheaply” manufactured trinkets.

2) the rust ain’t above government spending if it benefits them. They just don’t like coastal elitism.

You’re hyperbole about the evils of socialism is starting to sound like the Trump hater’s fear of the 4th Reich.


If college is free then it is not exclusive

We already have free college - its called high school

As with healthcare - free college will further stratify higher ed - a sub par system for us schmucks and then an elite system for those who can pay

And guess who will have the better resumes?


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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Postby kalm » Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:19 am

CID1990 wrote:
kalm wrote:
1). I’d rather have free college than tax free defense spending. At least education investments can lead to innovation and productivity. Endless bombs dropped on sand piles aren’t the kind of GDP expansion we need. Or rent free resource extraction where raw materials are shipped overseas to be sold back to us as “cheaply” manufactured trinkets.

2) the rust ain’t above government spending if it benefits them. They just don’t like coastal elitism.

You’re hyperbole about the evils of socialism is starting to sound like the Trump hater’s fear of the 4th Reich.


If college is free then it is not exclusive

We already have free college - its called high school

As with healthcare - free college will further stratify higher ed - a sub par system for us schmucks and then an elite system for those who can pay

And guess who will have the better resumes?


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All valid points. Education shouldn’t just be college focused but vocational as well. In some instances, we’ve transitioned from an apprenticeship training culture where the employer provided for and absorbed the costs of a competent worker to the current system. Today, I get assistant superintendents who took out interest bearing loans to obtain turf grass management or agronomy degrees. Their training is now free to me except they demand higher wages to pay off those loans. 30 years ago they learned on the job at their employers expense.

I’m not sure which is better someone is making money in the middle.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Postby houndawg » Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:45 am

CID1990 wrote:
kalm wrote:
1). I’d rather have free college than tax free defense spending. At least education investments can lead to innovation and productivity. Endless bombs dropped on sand piles aren’t the kind of GDP expansion we need. Or rent free resource extraction where raw materials are shipped overseas to be sold back to us as “cheaply” manufactured trinkets.

2) the rust ain’t above government spending if it benefits them. They just don’t like coastal elitism.

You’re hyperbole about the evils of socialism is starting to sound like the Trump hater’s fear of the 4th Reich.


If college is free then it is not exclusive

We already have free college - its called high school

As with healthcare - free college will further stratify higher ed - a sub par system for us schmucks and then an elite system for those who can pay

And guess who will have the better resumes?


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If you're going to college for your resume you should just go to trade school learn something useful. Those guys are doing pretty well these days - and we need young money to keep my SS checks rolling in...
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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Postby GannonFan » Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:52 am

CID1990 wrote:
kalm wrote:
1). I’d rather have free college than tax free defense spending. At least education investments can lead to innovation and productivity. Endless bombs dropped on sand piles aren’t the kind of GDP expansion we need. Or rent free resource extraction where raw materials are shipped overseas to be sold back to us as “cheaply” manufactured trinkets.

2) the rust ain’t above government spending if it benefits them. They just don’t like coastal elitism.

You’re hyperbole about the evils of socialism is starting to sound like the Trump hater’s fear of the 4th Reich.


If college is free then it is not exclusive

We already have free college - its called high school

As with healthcare - free college will further stratify higher ed - a sub par system for us schmucks and then an elite system for those who can pay

And guess who will have the better resumes?


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Agreed. Making college tuition-free wouldn't result in a really more educated workforce, it would just result in a workforce with more college credits and possibly more college degrees. But forcing that to happen through free tuition in no way has any direct relation to innovation and productivity improvements. I could make every college football team in America an "FBS" school by forcing all of them to play in FBS, but the number of NFL-ready QB's year after year would remain the same no matter how fancy I called their colleges. Handing out degrees doesn't improve innovation.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

Postby kalm » Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:17 am

GannonFan wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
If college is free then it is not exclusive

We already have free college - its called high school

As with healthcare - free college will further stratify higher ed - a sub par system for us schmucks and then an elite system for those who can pay

And guess who will have the better resumes?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Agreed. Making college tuition-free wouldn't result in a really more educated workforce, it would just result in a workforce with more college credits and possibly more college degrees. But forcing that to happen through free tuition in no way has any direct relation to innovation and productivity improvements. I could make every college football team in America an "FBS" school by forcing all of them to play in FBS, but the number of NFL-ready QB's year after year would remain the same no matter how fancy I called their colleges. Handing out degrees doesn't improve innovation.




I don’t recall anyone’s shitty/meaningless free tuition plan. :|

Like I replied, there needs to be vocational options as well and regulation of which degrees are eligible.
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