National Emergency Declared!

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Re: National Emergency Declared!

Postby Chizzang » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:28 pm

AZGrizFan wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
can you explain it in detail, this "crisis" you've been witnessing for 28 years...

:coffee:


Go find your own proof. Not looking to be mocked. I really DGAF whether you think there’s a crisis or not. And I don’t care if you believe me. But if you don’t think 400,000 illegals crossing each year is a crisis, I can’t help you. I KNOW what I know and a wall in critical places along the border would go a long ways towards solving the issues. But you do you, bro.



:rofl:

Gosh what do they all do, these 400,000 illegal aliens..?
If we only knew what it was that they wanted over here..?
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Re: National Emergency Declared!

Postby Skjellyfetti » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:40 pm

He asked politely not to be mocked. :ohno:
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Re: National Emergency Declared!

Postby CID1990 » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:42 pm

The jobs incentive is certainly driving a good portion of illegal immigration. But unfortunately, we will never fix that one - too many people on both sides of the aisle are not going to vote for full on use of e-verify, and subsequent enforcement.

Plus, given the current climate, if we even HAVE that debate, it will devolve into two populist sides - those saying we need full implementation of e-verify, and those who decry it as just a wall by another name... after all, how can we deny the basic dignity of work to people who are already here?

There are other drivers also - jus soli citizenship is one. Birth tourism by visa is huge in some countries, I just served in one of them. The intent to have a child in the US is not a visa ineligibility. There are also public assistance avenues open to illegal aliens. Not all, but there are still some pretty big incentives. Their children can also go to school, they can get driver's licenses (despite what we hear from the folks who don't want us ID-ing voters... they are pretty easy to get)

Ultimately, a general re-write of the INA is long overdue but Congress cannot function and that would be major legislation requiring grand scale cooperation and compromise. I don't know of anyone who can do that and hope to keep their seat in this all or nothing climate
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Re: National Emergency Declared!

Postby AZGrizFan » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:23 am

Chizzang wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
Go find your own proof. Not looking to be mocked. I really DGAF whether you think there’s a crisis or not. And I don’t care if you believe me. But if you don’t think 400,000 illegals crossing each year is a crisis, I can’t help you. I KNOW what I know and a wall in critical places along the border would go a long ways towards solving the issues. But you do you, bro.



:rofl:

Gosh what do they all do, these 400,000 illegal aliens..?
If we only knew what it was that they wanted over here..?


What they all do? They all break the **** law, that's what they all do. And they cost us $130 billion every. ****. year. We could build a wall to the **** MOON with all the money illegal aliens have cost this country.
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Re: National Emergency Declared!

Postby ALPHAGRIZ1 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:15 pm

AZ you are about the only rational person on here anymore..............you get it and you are 100% right on this one.

It all boils down to them breaking the law and people wanting to help them break the law.
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Re: National Emergency Declared!

Postby Chizzang » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:38 pm

CID1990 wrote:The jobs incentive is certainly driving a good portion of illegal immigration. But unfortunately, we will never fix that one - too many people on both sides of the aisle are not going to vote for full on use of e-verify, and subsequent enforcement.

Plus, given the current climate, if we even HAVE that debate, it will devolve into two populist sides - those saying we need full implementation of e-verify, and those who decry it as just a wall by another name... after all, how can we deny the basic dignity of work to people who are already here?

There are other drivers also - jus soli citizenship is one. Birth tourism by visa is huge in some countries, I just served in one of them. The intent to have a child in the US is not a visa ineligibility. There are also public assistance avenues open to illegal aliens. Not all, but there are still some pretty big incentives. Their children can also go to school, they can get driver's licenses (despite what we hear from the folks who don't want us ID-ing voters... they are pretty easy to get)

Ultimately, a general re-write of the INA is long overdue but Congress cannot function and that would be major legislation requiring grand scale cooperation and compromise. I don't know of anyone who can do that and hope to keep their seat in this all or nothing climate


Very little of that ^ has to do with an actual "wall"

:geek:

and would require a level of intelligent debate presently reserved for a scant few
none of which reside in congress or this administration
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Re: National Emergency Declared!

Postby CitadelGrad » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:06 pm

Ibanez wrote:
CitadelGrad wrote:
I don't think it is at all clear that the Constitution has been violated.

There still isn’t a crisis. Border crossings are at historical lows, most drugs come through PoE. Our immigration laws need to be enforced and we could use some extra support where it matters.

But Trump has fabricated this crisis so his low-information base won’t bail on him after he’s caved on the wall during the shutdown and caved on his promise that Mexico will pay.


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You were speaking of historic lows?

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/border-apprehensions-jump-84-606-000-expected-this-year

January saw a surprising surge of 22,000 more apprehensions of illegal immigrants at southwest border crossings over January 2018, prompting a key predictor to suggest that border officers will make over 600,000 apprehensions this year.

The year-over-year increase was 84 percent, from 25,975 in January 2018 to 47,893 last January, according to U.S. Customs and Border Protection.
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Re: National Emergency Declared!

Postby Ibanez » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:22 pm

CitadelGrad wrote:
Ibanez wrote:There still isn’t a crisis. Border crossings are at historical lows, most drugs come through PoE. Our immigration laws need to be enforced and we could use some extra support where it matters.

But Trump has fabricated this crisis so his low-information base won’t bail on him after he’s caved on the wall during the shutdown and caved on his promise that Mexico will pay.


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You were speaking of historic lows?

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/border-apprehensions-jump-84-606-000-expected-this-year

January saw a surprising surge of 22,000 more apprehensions of illegal immigrants at southwest border crossings over January 2018, prompting a key predictor to suggest that border officers will make over 600,000 apprehensions this year.

The year-over-year increase was 84 percent, from 25,975 in January 2018 to 47,893 last January, according to U.S. Customs and Border Protection.


That's one year. One year is not a trend.

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https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... ality.html


Looks like a downward trend to me.
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Re: National Emergency Declared!

Postby AZGrizFan » Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:14 pm

How many is "ok" Mark? At what point, in your mind, does it move from "ok" to "crisis". 60,000 a month? 100,000 a month? I mean, is there some number where you go "whoa...that's a whole lotta crisis goin' on there"....

Because for me, the number is 1. Yet we've got 40,000 **** people a MONTH streaming across our border and you don't think it's a crisis, just because it's LESS of a crisis than it was a few years ago?
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Re: National Emergency Declared!

Postby ALPHAGRIZ1 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:19 pm

Anything over the number zero is a crisis
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Re: National Emergency Declared!

Postby 89Hen » Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:22 pm

AZGrizFan wrote:Because for me, the number is 1?

ALPHAGRIZ1 wrote:Anything over the number zero is a crisis

:suspicious: :tothehand:
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Re: National Emergency Declared!

Postby CID1990 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:50 pm

Chizzang wrote:
CID1990 wrote:The jobs incentive is certainly driving a good portion of illegal immigration. But unfortunately, we will never fix that one - too many people on both sides of the aisle are not going to vote for full on use of e-verify, and subsequent enforcement.

Plus, given the current climate, if we even HAVE that debate, it will devolve into two populist sides - those saying we need full implementation of e-verify, and those who decry it as just a wall by another name... after all, how can we deny the basic dignity of work to people who are already here?

There are other drivers also - jus soli citizenship is one. Birth tourism by visa is huge in some countries, I just served in one of them. The intent to have a child in the US is not a visa ineligibility. There are also public assistance avenues open to illegal aliens. Not all, but there are still some pretty big incentives. Their children can also go to school, they can get driver's licenses (despite what we hear from the folks who don't want us ID-ing voters... they are pretty easy to get)

Ultimately, a general re-write of the INA is long overdue but Congress cannot function and that would be major legislation requiring grand scale cooperation and compromise. I don't know of anyone who can do that and hope to keep their seat in this all or nothing climate


Very little of that ^ has to do with an actual "wall"

:geek:

and would require a level of intelligent debate presently reserved for a scant few
none of which reside in congress or this administration


Sure it does. I support a barrier as a tacit admission of defeat - on the idea that we can actually fix these underlying draws on illegal immigration (we can’t - and it is more due to the hard left open borders base than anything else- JSO is right on this one... the demographics in this country increasingly slant towards it).

It is also an imperfect fix, which I also acknowledge. But taken together with smaller, more moderate (and possible) reforms to the INA, it would be an effective part of the whole


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Re: National Emergency Declared!

Postby JohnStOnge » Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:42 pm

The thing about this "crisis" thing is that this country benefits from illegal immigration. That complicates things. There are people all over the place who benefit from having these people in the shadows so they can get cheap productivity out of them. I remember when Alabama tried to crack down hard on illegal immigrants. Eventually it got nixed by the courts but even before it did Alabama farmers were freaking out. Here's one article on it:

https://mic.com/articles/8272/alabama-i ... .wdcfb6vSw

But you can find plenty of others.

I can remember the Katrina aftermath too. I don't know for sure if a bunch of the Mexican looking people working construction to rebuild but I strongly suspect that was the case. For every criminal that comes across the border there are 100 people who work their asses off for peanuts.

If you could snap your fingers and every person in the United States illegally was gone tomorrow THAT would be a crisis.
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Re: National Emergency Declared!

Postby ALPHAGRIZ1 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:52 pm

No it wouldnt, it would be awesome.

Some people wont work for peanuts, if those people are not here to work cheap employers need to pay more or just not get as much work done.
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Re: National Emergency Declared!

Postby JohnStOnge » Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:19 pm

ALPHAGRIZ1 wrote:No it wouldnt, it would be awesome.

Some people wont work for peanuts, if those people are not here to work cheap employers need to pay more or just not get as much work done.


It'd be a crisis. Hotels. Restaurants. Seafood industry. Agriculture. Construction. All of a sudden a bunch of stuff would cost a lot more. All of a sudden a bunch of businesses would have their costs dramatically increased or they might not even be able to acquire the labor they need.

There also might be ramifications for the high tech industry.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/ ... 4542d77114
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Re: National Emergency Declared!

Postby JohnStOnge » Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:22 pm

To me this is kind of like the China thing. Resenting China is in vogue. But we're all watching big flatscreen TVs, pecking on smartphones, typing on computers that are affordable because of the Chinese.
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Re: RE: Re: National Emergency Declared!

Postby ALPHAGRIZ1 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:39 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:
ALPHAGRIZ1 wrote:No it wouldnt, it would be awesome.

Some people wont work for peanuts, if those people are not here to work cheap employers need to pay more or just not get as much work done.


It'd be a crisis. Hotels. Restaurants. Seafood industry. Agriculture. Construction. All of a sudden a bunch of stuff would cost a lot more. All of a sudden a bunch of businesses would have their costs dramatically increased or they might not even be able to acquire the labor they need.

There also might be ramifications for the high tech industry.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/ ... 4542d77114
So what do you have against people making money?

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Re: National Emergency Declared!

Postby AZGrizFan » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:03 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:
ALPHAGRIZ1 wrote:No it wouldnt, it would be awesome.

Some people wont work for peanuts, if those people are not here to work cheap employers need to pay more or just not get as much work done.


It'd be a crisis. Hotels. Restaurants. Seafood industry. Agriculture. Construction. All of a sudden a bunch of stuff would cost a lot more. All of a sudden a bunch of businesses would have their costs dramatically increased or they might not even be able to acquire the labor they need.

There also might be ramifications for the high tech industry.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/ ... 4542d77114


would it be a $135 billion a year crisis?
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Re: National Emergency Declared!

Postby Vidav » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:21 pm

89Hen wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:Because for me, the number is 1?

ALPHAGRIZ1 wrote:Anything over the number zero is a crisis

:suspicious: :tothehand:


Indeed. One of the few times 89 and I will agree. What stupid statements.

One illegal making it into the country is a crisis? :roll:
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Re: National Emergency Declared!

Postby AZGrizFan » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:33 pm

Vidav wrote:
89Hen wrote:
:suspicious: :tothehand:


Indeed. One of the few times 89 and I will agree. What stupid statements.

One illegal making it into the country is a crisis? :roll:


Well, since mark won’t answer I’ll ask you...what’s your number? What number is “ok” and at what point does a crisis exist?
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Re: National Emergency Declared!

Postby Ivytalk » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:48 pm

AZGrizFan wrote:
Vidav wrote:
Indeed. One of the few times 89 and I will agree. What stupid statements.

One illegal making it into the country is a crisis? :roll:


Well, since mark won’t answer I’ll ask you...what’s your number? What number is “ok” and at what point does a crisis exist?

Let me rephrase for you, Russian. How many of Putin’s jackbooted thugs pouring across the Ukraine border is too many?
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Re: National Emergency Declared!

Postby Vidav » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:17 pm

AZGrizFan wrote:
Vidav wrote:
Indeed. One of the few times 89 and I will agree. What stupid statements.

One illegal making it into the country is a crisis? :roll:


Well, since mark won’t answer I’ll ask you...what’s your number? What number is “ok” and at what point does a crisis exist?


I don't have a specific number. But suggesting that one is a crisis is dumb. That is like MaineJeff saying that one gun death makes a crisis. Would you agree with him? Probably not.
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Re: National Emergency Declared!

Postby AZGrizFan » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:43 pm

Vidav wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
Well, since mark won’t answer I’ll ask you...what’s your number? What number is “ok” and at what point does a crisis exist?


I don't have a specific number. But suggesting that one is a crisis is dumb. That is like MaineJeff saying that one gun death makes a crisis. Would you agree with him? Probably not.


And suggesting that 40,000 ISN’T a crisis is dumb as well, simply because it’s lower than years past. You both have confirmed that 40,000 a month does not a crisis make, in your opinion, so your number must be some number higher than that. By the way, that’s more than the population of Helena, MT coming across the border illegally every single month—in this “non crisis”.

My number is significantly lower. somewhere between 1 and 40,000. Maybe the size of, oh, Clearwater. Or Clinton. :coffee:
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Re: National Emergency Declared!

Postby ALPHAGRIZ1 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:57 pm

AZ don't argue with people that support law breakers. It's back and **** white.

They are on the wrong side of history

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Re: National Emergency Declared!

Postby Ibanez » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:35 am

AZGrizFan wrote:How many is "ok" Mark? At what point, in your mind, does it move from "ok" to "crisis". 60,000 a month? 100,000 a month? I mean, is there some number where you go "whoa...that's a whole lotta crisis goin' on there"....

Because for me, the number is 1. Yet we've got 40,000 **** people a MONTH streaming across our border and you don't think it's a crisis, just because it's LESS of a crisis than it was a few years ago?

I think you look at the trend, consider what's contributing to it and change tack as necessary. People shouldn't be breaking our laws AND then expecting the law to protect them. You, like Cit and many others aren't looking at the big picture.

And my position on immigration has been quite consistent - immigrate to the US legally and through the appropriate channels. Illegals needs to be sent back. Dreamers should be given a pathway to citizenship. But a lot needs to happen to make that work. A large swath of our Southern Border has a wall, fence, barrier and yet 40k are still coming in each month? Clearly something isn't working and i'm willing to bet it's a heavy mixture of physical security, detection at PoE, personnel (both LEO and judicial) that are the culprits. But all Trump seems to focus on is a wall so that he can placate his base.

Hell - i'd be for giving some sort of amnesty to illegals already here. Bring them out of the shadows, make them legal, TAX PAYING citizens. And bring the hammer down on people that employ them.


And maybe b/c i'm not in a border state and I don't feel the impact - but I don't see any crisis. It's been occurring for decades and only the Manhattan Moron as figured it out? :suspicious:


The man is on record not believing his own DHS numbers on immigration but won't say where he gets his "facts" so what the hell is going on and how can we trust what he says is accurate and informed?
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