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Ivytalk wrote:

Ibanez wrote: I was just reading about it, the article on Politico says

I guess Tillis is worried about getting primaried by a Tar Heel Trumpbot. He’s up next year as well.

I guess. I'd rather get Meadows out than Tillis.

But Tillis got played by Trump so who knows...

BDKJMU wrote:2/21
“Construction begins on 30-foot-tall border wall in San Diego

SAN DIEGO (AP) — Construction has begun on the fifth border wall project of Donald Trump's presidency, replacing up to 14 miles of barrier in San Diego.

U.S. Customs and Border Protection said Tuesday that the first panels are in place to replace a steel-mesh fence with steel bollards up to 30 feet high. SLSCO Ltd. of Galveston, Texas, was awarded the $101 million contract in December.

It is the second layer of barrier in San Diego. Work on replacing the first layer is nearly complete, which is also 14 miles long and made of steel bollards up to 30 feet high...”
https://www.kmov.com/construction-begin ... 6.amp.html

This kind of stuff has probably been going on for years with little fanfare but now Trump needs to pretend something is really going on. So here we are.

JohnStOnge wrote:

BDKJMU wrote:2/21
“Construction begins on 30-foot-tall border wall in San Diego

SAN DIEGO (AP) — Construction has begun on the fifth border wall project of Donald Trump's presidency, replacing up to 14 miles of barrier in San Diego.

U.S. Customs and Border Protection said Tuesday that the first panels are in place to replace a steel-mesh fence with steel bollards up to 30 feet high. SLSCO Ltd. of Galveston, Texas, was awarded the $101 million contract in December.

It is the second layer of barrier in San Diego. Work on replacing the first layer is nearly complete, which is also 14 miles long and made of steel bollards up to 30 feet high...”
https://www.kmov.com/construction-begin ... 6.amp.html

This kind of stuff has probably been going on for years with little fanfare but now Trump needs to pretend something is really going on. So here we are.

Goes both ways - we've had a wall and have been building a wall for decades down there. But in our partisan environment, if Trump says he wants to build a wall no matter what, the other side all of a sudden decries any wall, or borders for that matter, as not only bad policy but now immoral. Trump's buffoonery triggers whackiness from the other side.

GannonFan wrote:Goes both ways - we've had a wall and have been building a wall for decades down there. But in our partisan environment, if Trump says he wants to build a wall no matter what, the other side all of a sudden decries any wall, or borders for that matter, as not only bad policy but now immoral. Trump's buffoonery triggers whackiness from the other side.

I think that's true. Trump would probably have an easier time getting wall and/or barrier built if he didn't talk so much about getting wall built.

JohnStOnge wrote:

GannonFan wrote:Goes both ways - we've had a wall and have been building a wall for decades down there. But in our partisan environment, if Trump says he wants to build a wall no matter what, the other side all of a sudden decries any wall, or borders for that matter, as not only bad policy but now immoral. Trump's buffoonery triggers whackiness from the other side.

I think that's true. Trump would probably have an easier time getting wall and/or barrier built if he didn't talk so much about getting wall built.

makes perfect sense.

BTW, it's not a national emergency. There are people who benefit from illegal immigration. It plays a role in our economy. It's been going on for decades. The idea that all of a sudden this is a national emergency that requires a dramatic instant response is absurd.

JohnStOnge wrote:BTW, it's not a national emergency. There are people who benefit from illegal immigration. It plays a role in our economy. It's been going on for decades. The idea that all of a sudden this is a national emergency that requires a dramatic instant response is absurd.

It’s a fuck of a lot closer to a national emergency than any of the 30-40 things Obama or Bush declared a “national emergency” for. At least this one refers to OUR country.

And the fact it’s been going on for decades does not change the fact its a national emergency. the fact border crossings are at an ebb does not change the fact its a national emergency. The fact people benefit from illegal immigration does not change the fact that its a national emergency. That argument is fucking retarded.

AZGrizFan wrote:

JohnStOnge wrote:BTW, it's not a national emergency. There are people who benefit from illegal immigration. It plays a role in our economy. It's been going on for decades. The idea that all of a sudden this is a national emergency that requires a dramatic instant response is absurd.

It’s a **** of a lot closer to a national emergency than any of the 30-40 things Obama or Bush declared a “national emergency” for. At least this one refers to OUR country.

And the fact it’s been going on for decades does not change the fact its a national emergency. the fact border crossings are at an ebb does not change the fact its a national emergency. The fact people benefit from illegal immigration does not change the fact that its a national emergency. That argument is **** retarded.

Perhaps I did not adequately articulate the central point. There is a serious question as to whether illegal immigration is even a net negative for our country. I would think that, for something to be an emergency, it would have to be clearly identifiable as a net negative. We might have more of an "emergency" if someone could snap their fingers and all illegal immigrants in the United States suddenly disappeared from our land. It would cause problems.

I'll link the article at http://fortune.com/2018/06/18/immigrati ... -shortage/ because I don't think Fortune can be accused of being "liberal." But with little effort you can find many others. An excellent case study was provided when Alabama cracked down hard and it caused problems for them economically. (see https://mic.com/articles/8272/alabama-i ... .2xzZmMNVe) And Alabama is not a State that would be near the top in terms of impact from that kind of thing.

Trump's "emergency" is not an emergency. It's a complicated situation.

And BTW, I am a person who does think the immigration laws should be enforced. If someone is caught in the country illegally they should be deported. But there is no "emergency" that justifies making such a declaration in order to spend money on something that Congress just explicitly refused to spend money on.

JohnStOnge wrote:And BTW, I am a person who does think the immigration laws should be enforced. If someone is caught in the country illegally they should be deported. But there is no "emergency" that justifies making such a declaration in order to spend money on something that Congress just explicitly refused to spend money on.

I agree that circumventing Congress’s appropriations process is an inappropriate use of a National Emergency declaration.

It’s still a national emergency. And only a full fledged retard would believe any line that says “there’s a question as to whether it’s a net negative to our country”.

AZGrizFan wrote:

JohnStOnge wrote:BTW, it's not a national emergency. There are people who benefit from illegal immigration. It plays a role in our economy. It's been going on for decades. The idea that all of a sudden this is a national emergency that requires a dramatic instant response is absurd.

It’s a fuck of a lot closer to a national emergency than any of the 30-40 things Obama or Bush declared a “national emergency” for. At least this one refers to OUR country.

And the fact it’s been going on for decades does not change the fact its a national emergency. the fact border crossings are at an ebb does not change the fact its a national emergency. The fact people benefit from illegal immigration does not change the fact that its a national emergency. That argument is fucking retarded.

9-11?

Hurricane Katrina?

2008 Crash?

Seriously?