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Political and Societal Coarseness

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:54 am
by GannonFan
Didn't see a good enough thread to put this in so I thought I'd drop it here. Thought it was a pretty good quick read on how both sides of the aisle apparently just don't get it and are determined to be right (or be declared right) no matter how far they need to sink to do it.

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-shameless-society-came-first-100033959.html


The thing that struck me about this story, though, was the reaction from Matt Osborne, a consultant who helped devise the scheme. Outed by Times reporters Scott Shane and Alan Blinder for peddling outright lies, and facing a possible federal investigation, Osborne didn’t even fake regret.

“If you don’t do it, you’re fighting with one hand tied behind your back,” he said. “You have a moral imperative to do this — to do whatever it takes.”

Which seems to me a pretty good distillation of what we’re seeing everywhere lately, in Washington and on social media and even in our daily interactions. In Trump’s America, taking personal responsibility for anything you say or do is suddenly out of vogue, no matter which side you’re on or how petty the issue.

We’re living now in the shameless society, where accountability and apology are just white flags for the weak.

Re: Political and Societal Corseness

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:11 am
by AZGrizFan
Obama spent 8 years blaming others for his failings and suddenly this is an issue in "Trump's America"?

This dude has an obvious agenda and this article is no better than the other shit I line the cat box with.

Re: Political and Societal Corseness

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:22 am
by SunCoastBlueHen
AZGrizFan wrote:Obama spent 8 years blaming others for his failings and suddenly this is an issue in "Trump's America"?

This dude has an obvious agenda and this article is no better than the other shit I line the cat box with.


If you remove the name Trump from the article, what do you disagree with? To me it sums up nicely the shit show we have on both sides of the aisle.

Re: Political and Societal Corseness

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:28 am
by Grizalltheway
SunCoastBlueHen wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:Obama spent 8 years blaming others for his failings and suddenly this is an issue in "Trump's America"?

This dude has an obvious agenda and this article is no better than the other shit I line the cat box with.


If you remove the name Trump from the article, what do you disagree with? To me it sums up nicely the shit show we have on both sides of the aisle.

He's programmed to mention Obama, don't bother.

Re: Political and Societal Corseness

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:34 am
by AZGrizFan
SunCoastBlueHen wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:Obama spent 8 years blaming others for his failings and suddenly this is an issue in "Trump's America"?

This dude has an obvious agenda and this article is no better than the other shit I line the cat box with.


If you remove the name Trump from the article, what do you disagree with? To me it sums up nicely the shit show we have on both sides of the aisle.


Yes, a shit show he blames squarely on Trump. People simply don't want to admit that it started waaaaay before Trump. "Trump's America" is merely a continuation of "Obama's America"...

Re: Political and Societal Corseness

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:34 am
by AZGrizFan
Grizalltheway wrote:
SunCoastBlueHen wrote:
If you remove the name Trump from the article, what do you disagree with? To me it sums up nicely the shit show we have on both sides of the aisle.

He's programmed to mention Obama, don't bother.


No, but I am programmed to call out bullshit when I see it. :nod: :nod:

Re: Political and Societal Corseness

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:03 am
by GannonFan
AZGrizFan wrote:
SunCoastBlueHen wrote:
If you remove the name Trump from the article, what do you disagree with? To me it sums up nicely the **** show we have on both sides of the aisle.


Yes, a **** show he blames squarely on Trump. People simply don't want to admit that it started waaaaay before Trump. "Trump's America" is merely a continuation of "Obama's America"...


I don't see that at all, he seems to be blaming society as a whole - heck, he even goes as far back as the 2008 economic collapse as a possible start of the bitterness (and that is even pre-Obama). He calls out Trump for what Trump is, which I don't see how that's an issue, but he clearly seems to be drawing a much wider net than Trump.

Re: Political and Societal Corseness

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:59 am
by Chizzang
GannonFan wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
Yes, a **** show he blames squarely on Trump. People simply don't want to admit that it started waaaaay before Trump. "Trump's America" is merely a continuation of "Obama's America"...


I don't see that at all, he seems to be blaming society as a whole - heck, he even goes as far back as the 2008 economic collapse as a possible start of the bitterness (and that is even pre-Obama). He calls out Trump for what Trump is, which I don't see how that's an issue, but he clearly seems to be drawing a much wider net than Trump.


You can't explain the Mona Lisa to a blind man...
AZ is blind as a bat
Lovable / Snuggles / down right hug worthy but blind

Also, because : Obama

Re: Political and Societal Corseness

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:14 pm
by Silenoz
Is there a more abused word in the English language than "moral"?

Re: Political and Societal Corseness

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:19 pm
by GannonFan
Silenoz wrote:Is there a more abused word in the English language than "moral"?


Well, at least in the past few weeks or months, you might have a point. Apparently if you can frame something, anything, as a moral choice, then it's bulletproof versus any examination or discussion. And the bonus is anyone who is on the other side is automatically pegged as evil. Fits in nicely with this article and the idea of it.

Re: Political and Societal Corseness

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:39 pm
by AZGrizFan
GannonFan wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
Yes, a **** show he blames squarely on Trump. People simply don't want to admit that it started waaaaay before Trump. "Trump's America" is merely a continuation of "Obama's America"...


I don't see that at all, he seems to be blaming society as a whole - heck, he even goes as far back as the 2008 economic collapse as a possible start of the bitterness (and that is even pre-Obama). He calls out Trump for what Trump is, which I don't see how that's an issue, but he clearly seems to be drawing a much wider net than Trump.


You don't see it? He directly calls it "Trump's America". Doesn't get much plainer than that.

Re: Political and Societal Corseness

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:39 pm
by AZGrizFan
Chizzang wrote:
GannonFan wrote:
I don't see that at all, he seems to be blaming society as a whole - heck, he even goes as far back as the 2008 economic collapse as a possible start of the bitterness (and that is even pre-Obama). He calls out Trump for what Trump is, which I don't see how that's an issue, but he clearly seems to be drawing a much wider net than Trump.


You can't explain the Mona Lisa to a blind man...
AZ is blind as a bat
Lovable / Snuggles / down right hug worthy but blind

Also, because : Obama


You are the blind one, my friend.

Re: Political and Societal Corseness

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:47 pm
by GannonFan
AZGrizFan wrote:
GannonFan wrote:
I don't see that at all, he seems to be blaming society as a whole - heck, he even goes as far back as the 2008 economic collapse as a possible start of the bitterness (and that is even pre-Obama). He calls out Trump for what Trump is, which I don't see how that's an issue, but he clearly seems to be drawing a much wider net than Trump.


You don't see it? He directly calls it "Trump's America". Doesn't get much plainer than that.


Well, there was more to the article - did you stop reading after that single clause? How about this part of the article...

As a politician friend of mine (yes, I have a few) reminded me this week, Trump couldn’t have created this ethos all by himself. We created the moment, and he merely filled the void.

Maybe it’s our own growing coarseness and limitless self-regard — our propensity to shield every worldview in its own like-minded cocoon, whether it’s based in truth or outright lie — that the president so deftly channels, and not the other way around.


Seems like he's saying things got bad because of us (society) and Trump is just the beneficiary.

Re: Political and Societal Corseness

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:19 pm
by Chizzang
AZGrizFan wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
You can't explain the Mona Lisa to a blind man...
AZ is blind as a bat
Lovable / Snuggles / down right hug worthy but blind

Also, because : Obama


You are the blind one, my friend.


Oh I see the light now

Obama ruined my life...
Worst president in the history of time

:mrgreen:

Re: Political and Societal Corseness

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:52 pm
by AZGrizFan
Chizzang wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
You are the blind one, my friend.


Oh I see the light now

Obama ruined my life...
Worst president in the history of time

:mrgreen:


Good Christ you’re horrible at reading comprehension. That is neither remotely what I said nor my point of what the author said. Try again.

Re: Political and Societal Corseness

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:28 pm
by HI54UNI
I think the bigger question is who knew that yahoo still existed? :shock:

Re: Political and Societal Corseness

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:29 pm
by Ivytalk
Matt Bai is generally progressive but evenhanded. One of the few liberals that I’ll read through to the end of an article. The whole point of this one is that the trend has been going on for quite some time. No real prescriptions on how to stop it, but personal responsibility and sense of shame go hand in hand and start from within. And good parenting.

*coarseness 8-)

Re: Political and Societal Corseness

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:39 pm
by GannonFan
Ivytalk wrote:Matt Bai is generally progressive but evenhanded. One of the few liberals that I’ll read through to the end of an article. The whole point of this one is that the trend has been going on for quite some time. No real prescriptions on how to stop it, but personal responsibility and sense of shame go hand in hand and start from within. And good parenting.

*coarseness 8-)


Son of a popsicle, my bad. And I did get an eerie feeling that I had spelled something wrong before hitting enter! :rofl:

Re: Political and Societal Corseness

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:07 pm
by Grizalltheway
GannonFan wrote:
Ivytalk wrote:Matt Bai is generally progressive but evenhanded. One of the few liberals that I’ll read through to the end of an article. The whole point of this one is that the trend has been going on for quite some time. No real prescriptions on how to stop it, but personal responsibility and sense of shame go hand in hand and start from within. And good parenting.

*coarseness 8-)


Son of a popsicle, my bad. And I did get an eerie feeling that I had spelled something wrong before hitting enter! :rofl:

Whoa! Language, please!

Re: Political and Societal Corseness

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:14 pm
by Chizzang
AZGrizFan wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
Oh I see the light now

Obama ruined my life...
Worst president in the history of time

:mrgreen:


Good Christ you’re horrible at reading comprehension. That is neither remotely what I said nor my point of what the author said. Try again.


:rofl:

I just want to know who's America it is..?

Re: Political and Societal Corseness

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:16 pm
by mainejeff
AZGrizFan wrote:
SunCoastBlueHen wrote:
If you remove the name Trump from the article, what do you disagree with? To me it sums up nicely the shit show we have on both sides of the aisle.


Yes, a shit show he blames squarely on Trump. People simply don't want to admit that it started waaaaay before Trump. "Trump's America" is merely a continuation of "Obama's America"...


If only that were the case....... :ohno:

Re: Political and Societal Corseness

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:19 pm
by Grizalltheway
Chizzang wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
Good Christ you’re horrible at reading comprehension. That is neither remotely what I said nor my point of what the author said. Try again.


:rofl:

I just want to know who's America it is..?

It's an LLP consisting of JP Morgan, Walmart and Amazon.

Re: Political and Societal Corseness

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:27 pm
by houndawg
Chizzang wrote:
GannonFan wrote:
I don't see that at all, he seems to be blaming society as a whole - heck, he even goes as far back as the 2008 economic collapse as a possible start of the bitterness (and that is even pre-Obama). He calls out Trump for what Trump is, which I don't see how that's an issue, but he clearly seems to be drawing a much wider net than Trump.


You can't explain the Mona Lisa to a blind man...
AZ is blind as a bat
Lovable / Snuggles / down right hug worthy but blind

Also, because : Obama


We all love him but he never got over that tan suit scandal

Re: Political and Societal Corseness

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:28 pm
by HI54UNI
Grizalltheway wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
:rofl:

I just want to know who's America it is..?

It's an LLP consisting of JP Morgan, Walmart, Amazon, and Mrs. Bezos.


FIFY

Re: Political and Societal Corseness

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:28 pm
by houndawg
AZGrizFan wrote:
GannonFan wrote:
I don't see that at all, he seems to be blaming society as a whole - heck, he even goes as far back as the 2008 economic collapse as a possible start of the bitterness (and that is even pre-Obama). He calls out Trump for what Trump is, which I don't see how that's an issue, but he clearly seems to be drawing a much wider net than Trump.


You don't see it? He directly calls it "Trump's America". Doesn't get much plainer than that.


Its his America from the day he took office until the day he leaves office. :coffee: