Trump and Existential Christian Fear

[CID1990]

They never had it to begin with

I don't know beyond myself. I do know they had credibility with me in that I thought they were basically sincere. I defended them many times. And I thought that there was no way Trump could be President because I thought there was NO way White Evangelical Christians would support an atrocity like that.

I had faith in them. Misplaced faith. Well, I mean, my Wife is a White Evangelical Christian and she wasn't like that. As noted before she resigned from her position on the State Republican Central Committee and left the Republican Party because it nominated Trump. But she's a rare exception.

For the most part there is this weird phenomenon by which people who have been preaching about morality for decades have thrown their lot in with a person who is about as immoral and dishonest as immorality and dishonesty get.

You obviously don’t understand the whole “instrument of God” concept

Christians have been accepting skunks as “holy” for millenia- the Bible and Christian lore are full of stories about bad people doing God’s work


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[∞∞∞]

You obviously don’t understand the whole “instrument of God” concept

Christians have been accepting skunks as “holy” for millenia- the Bible and Christian lore are full of stories about bad people doing God’s work.

Definitely not unique to Christianity though (as you know).

But hey, cults are going to cult.

[Gil Dobie]

While I'm not sure what this has to do with Trump, I CAN vouch that there are some definite threats against Christianity in our nation. Existential threats? Probably not at this time. Merely annoyances for now, but they ARE escalating to some degree. But there are DEFINITELY existential threats against Christianity worldwide. And it's not just radical Islam. There are many places where its simply government craziness aimed at Christians that has nothing to do with Islam or any other religion. That's particularly true in the Soviet Union. (Yes, I know the name has changed, but their current leader is behaving just like his Soviet predecessors....)

Christians are always playing the victim. Its their schtick

It's either some Christians trying to force their beliefs on others or others forcing their beliefs on Christians.

[Gil Dobie]

I don't know beyond myself. I do know they had credibility with me in that I thought they were basically sincere. I defended them many times. And I thought that there was no way Trump could be President because I thought there was NO way White Evangelical Christians would support an atrocity like that.

I had faith in them. Misplaced faith. Well, I mean, my Wife is a White Evangelical Christian and she wasn't like that. As noted before she resigned from her position on the State Republican Central Committee and left the Republican Party because it nominated Trump. But she's a rare exception.

For the most part there is this weird phenomenon by which people who have been preaching about morality for decades have thrown their lot in with a person who is about as immoral and dishonest as immorality and dishonesty get.

You obviously don’t understand the whole “instrument of God” concept

Christians have been accepting skunks as “holy” for millenia- the Bible and Christian lore are full of stories about bad people doing God’s work


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I guess I missed those stories.

[∞∞∞]

The Bible is full of particularly fucked up stories. Rape, incest, murder, human butchering, genocide, etc.

Some of parables are terrifyingly psychotic; it's stunning they're taught to children.

I mean FFS, Lot sends his own daughters to get gang raped in the story of Sodom and Gammorah.

edit: David kills 200 Phillistines and cuts off their foreskins...to get married. Elisha has 42 children mauled by bears...because they called him bald. For winning a battle, Jephtah thanks God by sacrificing the first creature to leave his home...which is his daughter. And the list goes on and on...

[andy7171]

The Bible is full of particularly fucked up stories. Rape, incest, murder, human butchering, genocide, etc.

Some of parables are terrifyingly psychotic; it's stunning they're taught to children.

I mean FFS, Lot sends his own daughters to get gang raped in the story of Sodom and Gammorah.

edit: David kills 200 Phillistines and cuts off their foreskins...to get married. Elisha has 42 children mauled by bears...because they called him bald. For winning a battle, Jephtah thanks God by sacrificing the first creature to leave his home...which is his daughter. And the list goes on and on...

Since we're bashing Christians, how about an example from the New Testament?

[mainejeff]

The Bible is full of particularly fucked up stories. Rape, incest, murder, human butchering, genocide, etc.

Some of parables are terrifyingly psychotic; it's stunning they're taught to children.

I mean FFS, Lot sends his own daughters to get gang raped in the story of Sodom and Gammorah.

edit: David kills 200 Phillistines and cuts off their foreskins...to get married. Elisha has 42 children mauled by bears...because they called him bald. For winning a battle, Jephtah thanks God by sacrificing the first creature to leave his home...which is his daughter. And the list goes on and on...

Since we're bashing Christians, how about an example from the New Testament?

Yes.....for god's sake.....someone give us the whitewashed version of Christianity!

[Gil Dobie]

Since we're bashing Christians, how about an example from the New Testament?

Yes.....for god's sake.....someone give us the whitewashed version of Christianity!

Christianity is a religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, as described in the New Testament.

[kalm]

Yes.....for god's sake.....someone give us the whitewashed version of Christianity!

Christianity is a religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, as described in the New Testament.

So Jesus want down with the OT?

[Gil Dobie]

Christianity is a religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, as described in the New Testament.

So Jesus want down with the OT?

I don't know what Jesus want down with the OT.

[∞∞∞]

Yes.....for god's sake.....someone give us the whitewashed version of Christianity!

Christianity is a religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, as described in the New Testament.

First of all, Jesus referred to stuff in the Old Testament in the New Testament. Do you not believe in the Ten Commandments, or Adam & Eve, or Noah? What about Moses? But I've got news for you: Christians ignore the New Testament, too, although they pretend they don't.

But to answer Andy's question:

-Jesus uses beating slaves as a parable.
-Paul commands slaves to be obedient to their masters.
-Jesus killing a fig tree because it didn't bear fruit.
-Jesus telling followers to pluck their eyes out and cut their hands off for sinning.
-Jesus referring to and being fine with the story of Sodom and Gomorrah.
-Pretty much anything Paul says about marriage and same-sex relationships

Additionally, here's an extensive list to Andy's question (not compiled by me): http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/nt_list.html

[CID1990]

Yes.....for god's sake.....someone give us the whitewashed version of Christianity!

Christianity is a religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, as described in the New Testament.

Who hung out with harlots and thieves (redeemable harlots and thieves of course)

My original point to JSO, who cannot understand how “moral” Christians can support Trump, is that one aspect of Christianity is the idea that even the worst people are redeemable, and that God can act through harlots and thieves

Theologically speaking, it isn’t a very foreign concept at all... it definitely doesn’t make me scratch my head the way it does JSO

[Gil Dobie]

Christianity is a religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, as described in the New Testament.

First of all, Jesus referred to stuff in the Old Testament in the New Testament. Do you not believe in the Ten Commandments, or Adam & Eve, or Noah? What about Moses? But I've got news for you: Christians ignore the New Testament, too, although they pretend they don't.

But to answer Andy's question:

-Jesus uses beating slaves as a parable.
-Paul commands slaves to be obedient to their masters.
-Jesus killing a fig tree because it didn't bear fruit.
-Jesus telling followers to pluck their eyes out and cut their hands off for sinning.
-Jesus referring to and being fine with the story of Sodom and Gomorrah.
-Pretty much anything Paul says about marriage and same-sex relationships

Additionally, here's an extensive list to Andy's question (not compiled by me): http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/nt_list.html

I looked at the link, if that's what you believe is says, fine. I see it in a different light.

[Gil Dobie]

Christianity is a religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, as described in the New Testament.

Who hung out with harlots and thieves (redeemable harlots and thieves of course)

My original point to JSO, who cannot understand how “moral” Christians can support Trump, is that one aspect of Christianity is the idea that even the worst people are redeemable, and that God can act through harlots and thieves

Theologically speaking, it isn’t a very foreign concept at all... it definitely doesn’t make me scratch my head the way it does JSO

Gotcha.

[kalm]

So Jesus want down with the OT?

I don't know what Jesus want down with the OT.

*wasn't...dammit!

[∞∞∞]

Theologically speaking, it isn’t a very foreign concept at all... it definitely doesn’t make me scratch my head the way it does JSO

Very true, but religions in general - and Evangelicals in particular - claim a superior moral standing.

It doesn't surprise me JSO is confused by what he perceives as lack of moral standing by Evangelicals, even though they never had a higher moral standing to begin with. He and his wife were raised to believe Evangelicals were better, even though the rest of the world never saw them that way (possibly the opposite).

That said, surveys and research have shown that as a whole, Evangelicals are more likely to support the Church of Trump compared to other sects and religions.

[Gil Dobie]

Theologically speaking, it isn’t a very foreign concept at all... it definitely doesn’t make me scratch my head the way it does JSO

Very true, but religions in general - and Evangelicals in particular - claim a superior moral standing.

It doesn't surprise me JSO is confused by what he perceives as lack of moral standing by Evangelicals, even though Evangelicals never had a higher moral standing to begin with.

That said, surveys and research have shown that as a whole, Evangelicals have sold out to the Church of Trump compared to other sects and religions.

Sounds like a bunch of political spin to me. The Trump vote was basically a partisan vote, and most Evangelicals supported conservative anti-abortion laws, a conservative supreme court and legal immigration. And that's what Trump was selling.

[Chizzang]

Very true, but religions in general - and Evangelicals in particular - claim a superior moral standing.

It doesn't surprise me JSO is confused by what he perceives as lack of moral standing by Evangelicals, even though Evangelicals never had a higher moral standing to begin with.

That said, surveys and research have shown that as a whole, Evangelicals have sold out to the Church of Trump compared to other sects and religions.

Sounds like a bunch of political spin to me. The Trump vote was basically a partisan vote, and most Evangelicals supported conservative anti-abortion laws, a conservative supreme court and legal immigration. And that's what Trump was selling.

No doubt he was selling that...
But at what price..?

Satan himself has plenty of nice things to sell as well
Which I think is the point of those that call out the Evangelical Christian Trump alliance

[Skjellyfetti]

Trump was selling legal immigration?

[Gil Dobie]

Sounds like a bunch of political spin to me. The Trump vote was basically a partisan vote, and most Evangelicals supported conservative anti-abortion laws, a conservative supreme court and legal immigration. And that's what Trump was selling.

No doubt he was selling that...
But at what price..?

Satan himself has plenty of nice things to sell as well
Which I think is the point of those that call out the Evangelical Christian Trump alliance

As they say, "Politics makes strange bedfellows". I doubt any of them are happy about Trumps life style and lies, but they are probably happy that he appointed conservative Supreme Court justices and his "Build the Wall" campaign against illegal immigration.

[Gil Dobie]

Trump was selling legal immigration?

From what I've read and seen, he wants to build a wall to slow the flow of illegals, and have them come into the country legally.

[HI54UNI]

JSO is pissed that his evangelical wife voted for Trump.

[Skjellyfetti]

Trump was selling legal immigration?

From what I've read and seen, he wants to build a wall to slow the flow of illegals, and have them come into the country legally.

He's been slashing legal immigration.

[Grizalltheway]

JSO is pissed that his evangelical wife voted for Trump.

IIRC, she didn't. Or at least told him she didn't.

[∞∞∞]

From what I've read and seen, he wants to build a wall to slow the flow of illegals, and have them come into the country legally.

He's been slashing legal immigration.

No secret most Trump supporters are ok with slashing legal immigration too.

Well for certain people.