Chinese Trade War

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Re: RE: Re: Chinese Trade War

Post by Ivytalk »

UNI88 wrote:
mainejeff2 wrote:The old way farming is not going to cut it with the rapid change of environmental factors, the loss of agri land and the booming worldwide population......yet our Federal Government keeps throwing gobs of money at it for political gain and votes.
The booming worldwide population is the 800 lb gorilla that no one wants to address.

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Booming worldwide population? That’s so 1968. You sound like Paul Ehrlich. :roll: Actually, the world population growth rate has been declining for years. It’s now barely over 1% worldwide. Even less than that in the US , parts of Asia, and most of Europe.
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Re: Chinese Trade War

Post by JohnStOnge »

Some takes on Trump's interim trade deal:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/14/busi ... iners.html
A year and a half into the trade war, China seems to have a winning strategy: Stay tough and let the Trump administration negotiate with itself.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... utType=amp
President Trump's "phase one" trade deal with China is largely a victory for Beijing. Just measure the agreement signed this week against the initial demands made by Washington in a leaked May 2018 document.
As the Financial Times concludes, with regard to the central U.S. goals, "After almost two years of negotiations, tariffs and counter-tarriffs, Mr. Trump has achieved none of these objectives."
Consistent with what I'd expect. Trump creates a looming crisis. Then he does something to avert the crisis. He acts like he really accomplished something but the situation is pretty much as it was before he started all his crap to begin with.
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Re: RE: Re: Chinese Trade War

Post by houndawg »

UNI88 wrote:
mainejeff2 wrote:The old way farming is not going to cut it with the rapid change of environmental factors, the loss of agri land and the booming worldwide population......yet our Federal Government keeps throwing gobs of money at it for political gain and votes.
The booming worldwide population is the 800 lb gorilla that no one wants to address.

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The Chinese are addressing it - it won't be long before you'll be able to walk from Cairo, IL, to China on Chinese freighters.
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Re: Chinese Trade War

Post by houndawg »

AZGrizFan wrote:
mainejeff2 wrote:
Wall Street is shrugging this morning......must be already baked in.

:coffee:
Yeah. I hate it when the market goes up EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. :rofl: :rofl:
Not very long ago you whined and sniveled at length about the LFPR when the market was going up. Every. Single. Day. :lol:

Thanks Obama! :thumb:
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Re: Chinese Trade War

Post by AZGrizFan »

houndawg wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
Yeah. I hate it when the market goes up EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. :rofl: :rofl:
Not very long ago you whined and sniveled at length about the LFPR when the market was going up. Every. Single. Day. :lol:

Thanks Obama! :thumb:
Once again, I think you’ve mistaken me for someone else. But hey, what’s new?
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Re: Chinese Trade War

Post by houndawg »

AZGrizFan wrote:
houndawg wrote:
Not very long ago you whined and sniveled at length about the LFPR when the market was going up. Every. Single. Day. :lol:

Thanks Obama! :thumb:
Once again, I think you’ve mistaken me for someone else. But hey, what’s new?
Sorry. You people all look alike
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Re: Chinese Trade War

Post by Skjellyfetti »

"The unmasking thing was all created by Devin Nunes"
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Cid1990 wrote:It is going to be a sad day for a lot of people when all that comes of all of this is Flynn getting whacked.

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Re: Chinese Trade War

Post by GannonFan »

Skjellyfetti wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:57 am
Wouldn't this have been expected, given the amount of closures and restrictions we placed on business and manufacturing due to COVID? :coffee:
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Re: Chinese Trade War

Post by UNI88 »

GannonFan wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:03 am
Skjellyfetti wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:57 am
Wouldn't this have been expected, given the amount of closures and restrictions we placed on business and manufacturing due to COVID? :coffee:
But it's Trump's fault that it is down. It's also Trump's fault that he didn't do enough and shut enough down.

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Re: Chinese Trade War

Post by SDHornet »

UNI88 wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:24 am
GannonFan wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:03 am


Wouldn't this have been expected, given the amount of closures and restrictions we placed on business and manufacturing due to COVID? :coffee:
But it's Trump's fault that it is down. It's also Trump's fault that he didn't do enough and shut enough down.
And Trumps fault that he didn't prevent the virus from leaving a Chinese lab.

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Re: Chinese Trade War

Post by BDKJMU »

SDHornet wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:56 am
UNI88 wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:24 am


But it's Trump's fault that it is down. It's also Trump's fault that he didn't do enough and shut enough down.
And Trumps fault that he didn't prevent the virus from leaving a Chinese lab.
The Chinese Virus has been great for China..
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Re: Chinese Trade War

Post by CID1990 »

SDHornet wrote:
UNI88 wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:24 am
But it's Trump's fault that it is down. It's also Trump's fault that he didn't do enough and shut enough down.
And Trumps fault that he didn't prevent the virus from leaving a Chinese lab.
The countries that are frequently touted as having had the best virus response did some things that had Trump done them, his opponents would have gone berzerk

And some of those things that countries like Thailand and New Zealand did (like blocking their own citizens from returning from abroad) would have likely been impossible to do in the US.

A total ban on incoming international flights and complete border closures would have been the only pathway to limiting the virus, given our internal, built in vulnerabilities to viral outbreaks.

So when you hear people blaming Trump for the virus numbers in the US, it is a falsehood cloaked in truth: Trump did not do enough of what he could not do.

He could have avoided being his usual Trump self though, by not minimizing and downplaying the issue- his critics are right about that


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Re: Chinese Trade War

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Re: Chinese Trade War

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Re: Chinese Trade War

Post by houndawg »

SeattleGriz wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:38 am
houndawg wrote:
Me too mostly - I've noticed that some of the farmers around are a bit touchy about being called welfare queens though

How's the growing season in that area?

I ask because where I grew up, the Golden triangle, farmers were done by mid August at the latest. Where my wife's family farms, still in Montana, they some years can't even get crops off the fields due to weather.
Its the opposite here, more likely to be unable to get a crop into the fields due to excessive spring rains
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Re: Chinese Trade War

Post by JohnStOnge »

CID1990 wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:58 am
SDHornet wrote:
And Trumps fault that he didn't prevent the virus from leaving a Chinese lab.
The countries that are frequently touted as having had the best virus response did some things that had Trump done them, his opponents would have gone berzerk

And some of those things that countries like Thailand and New Zealand did (like blocking their own citizens from returning from abroad) would have likely been impossible to do in the US.

A total ban on incoming international flights and complete border closures would have been the only pathway to limiting the virus, given our internal, built in vulnerabilities to viral outbreaks.

So when you hear people blaming Trump for the virus numbers in the US, it is a falsehood cloaked in truth: Trump did not do enough of what he could not do.

He could have avoided being his usual Trump self though, by not minimizing and downplaying the issue- his critics are right about that
I think that, by the time everyone realized that there was a problem, a total travel ban would not have worked. Once it's in the most important thing is limiting it within.

I also disagree with the idea that Trump, or I guess you could say our government if you don't want to blame Trump, could not have done things to limit the problem. As noted before the South Koreans anticipated the problem and quickly developed testing capability so that they could do contact tracing and identification of cases before the number of cases got too large to do that effectively. The United States may not have been able to do everything South Korea did but they could have pursued that general approach.

Instead, we had a President who insisted that the problem was solved because he did a travel restriction. Kept saying for about two months that everything was under control and there would be no issue. The stuff like it was 15 cases and soon it would be zero.

Then, after that, he created a system of conflicting messages. While his public health people were advising given behaviors he was undermining their advice.

Trump clearly, early on, thought that the travel restriction would solve the problem. He wasted about two months in that mode. Then for a few weeks he seemed on board with doing things necessary to limit the spread. Then he started compromising that effort.
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Re: Chinese Trade War

Post by CID1990 »

JohnStOnge wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:58 am
The countries that are frequently touted as having had the best virus response did some things that had Trump done them, his opponents would have gone berzerk

And some of those things that countries like Thailand and New Zealand did (like blocking their own citizens from returning from abroad) would have likely been impossible to do in the US.

A total ban on incoming international flights and complete border closures would have been the only pathway to limiting the virus, given our internal, built in vulnerabilities to viral outbreaks.

So when you hear people blaming Trump for the virus numbers in the US, it is a falsehood cloaked in truth: Trump did not do enough of what he could not do.

He could have avoided being his usual Trump self though, by not minimizing and downplaying the issue- his critics are right about that
I think that, by the time everyone realized that there was a problem, a total travel ban would not have worked. Once it's in the most important thing is limiting it within.

I also disagree with the idea that Trump, or I guess you could say our government if you don't want to blame Trump, could not have done things to limit the problem. As noted before the South Koreans anticipated the problem and quickly developed testing capability so that they could do contact tracing and identification of cases before the number of cases got too large to do that effectively. The United States may not have been able to do everything South Korea did but they could have pursued that general approach.

Instead, we had a President who insisted that the problem was solved because he did a travel restriction. Kept saying for about two months that everything was under control and there would be no issue. The stuff like it was 15 cases and soon it would be zero.

Then, after that, he created a system of conflicting messages. While his public health people were advising given behaviors he was undermining their advice.

Trump clearly, early on, thought that the travel restriction would solve the problem. He wasted about two months in that mode. Then for a few weeks he seemed on board with doing things necessary to limit the spread. Then he started compromising that effort.
It worked in Thailand and New Zealand and Taiwan. The three countries that everybody points to

So your supposition in your first para doesn’t jibe with the evidence and your second para is a straw man
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Re: Chinese Trade War

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CID1990 wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:35 pm
JohnStOnge wrote:
I think that, by the time everyone realized that there was a problem, a total travel ban would not have worked. Once it's in the most important thing is limiting it within.

I also disagree with the idea that Trump, or I guess you could say our government if you don't want to blame Trump, could not have done things to limit the problem. As noted before the South Koreans anticipated the problem and quickly developed testing capability so that they could do contact tracing and identification of cases before the number of cases got too large to do that effectively. The United States may not have been able to do everything South Korea did but they could have pursued that general approach.

Instead, we had a President who insisted that the problem was solved because he did a travel restriction. Kept saying for about two months that everything was under control and there would be no issue. The stuff like it was 15 cases and soon it would be zero.

Then, after that, he created a system of conflicting messages. While his public health people were advising given behaviors he was undermining their advice.

Trump clearly, early on, thought that the travel restriction would solve the problem. He wasted about two months in that mode. Then for a few weeks he seemed on board with doing things necessary to limit the spread. Then he started compromising that effort.
It worked in Thailand and New Zealand and Taiwan. The three countries that everybody points to

So your supposition in your first para doesn’t jibe with the evidence and your second para is a straw man
The country I've seen pointed to the most is South Korea and South Korea did not rely primarily on travel restrictions. It relied on gearing up testing capacity and being prepared to do aggressive contact tracing. I tried looking up what Thailand, New Zealand, and Taiwan did. I found these articles:

Thailand: https://asiatimes.com/2020/05/thailands ... ess-story/
New Zealand: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2025203
Taiwan: https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/30/tai ... h-records/

I do not read the articles as suggesting that travel restrictions were a major factor in any of the three countries; though there is a reference to "border controls" in the New Zealand article. It looks to me like the major factors were associated with internal controls to impede community spread.

Also, I do not see the things that the three countries did as being things that could not have been done in the United States.
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Re: Chinese Trade War

Post by CID1990 »

JohnStOnge wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:35 pm
It worked in Thailand and New Zealand and Taiwan. The three countries that everybody points to

So your supposition in your first para doesn’t jibe with the evidence and your second para is a straw man
The country I've seen pointed to the most is South Korea and South Korea did not rely primarily on travel restrictions. It relied on gearing up testing capacity and being prepared to do aggressive contact tracing. I tried looking up what Thailand, New Zealand, and Taiwan did. I found these articles:

Thailand: https://asiatimes.com/2020/05/thailands ... ess-story/
New Zealand: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2025203
Taiwan: https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/30/tai ... h-records/

I do not read the articles as suggesting that travel restrictions were a major factor in any of the three countries; though there is a reference to "border controls" in the New Zealand article. It looks to me like the major factors were associated with internal controls to impede community spread.

Also, I do not see the things that the three countries did as being things that could not have been done in the United States.
They were pretty much the ONLY factors.

Perhaps the actual details were inconvenient? All of those countries completely shut down international travel.

And if South Korea is what you mostly see people pointing to then I question what planet you are actually on

BTW I know exactly what these countries were doing because I saw the citizens services effects in each of them, as the are all East Asia-Pacific countries

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Re: Chinese Trade War

Post by GannonFan »

JohnStOnge wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:10 pm
CID1990 wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:35 pm


It worked in Thailand and New Zealand and Taiwan. The three countries that everybody points to

So your supposition in your first para doesn’t jibe with the evidence and your second para is a straw man
The country I've seen pointed to the most is South Korea and South Korea did not rely primarily on travel restrictions. It relied on gearing up testing capacity and being prepared to do aggressive contact tracing. I tried looking up what Thailand, New Zealand, and Taiwan did. I found these articles:

Thailand: https://asiatimes.com/2020/05/thailands ... ess-story/
New Zealand: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2025203
Taiwan: https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/30/tai ... h-records/

I do not read the articles as suggesting that travel restrictions were a major factor in any of the three countries; though there is a reference to "border controls" in the New Zealand article. It looks to me like the major factors were associated with internal controls to impede community spread.

Also, I do not see the things that the three countries did as being things that could not have been done in the United States.
Dude, if you honestly think Taiwan and New Zealand didn't succeed largely on the strength of border controls then your head is in the sand. Both countries raised the drawbridges and haven't opened them since. It's okay to say Trump didn't handle this well (WSJ is doing a great long term research on what went wrong - insisting on our own tests, devised here in the US, and then failing to adequately develop one for several weeks, is at the forefront of the federal mistakes - forcing nursing homes to take in recovering Covid patients in places like New York and PA were examples of state mistakes) while at the same time recognizing that we couldn't always copy what worked well in much smaller, more isolated countries.
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