Booming worldwide population? That’s so 1968. You sound like Paul Ehrlich. Actually, the world population growth rate has been declining for years. It’s now barely over 1% worldwide. Even less than that in the US , parts of Asia, and most of Europe.UNI88 wrote:The booming worldwide population is the 800 lb gorilla that no one wants to address.mainejeff2 wrote:The old way farming is not going to cut it with the rapid change of environmental factors, the loss of agri land and the booming worldwide population......yet our Federal Government keeps throwing gobs of money at it for political gain and votes.
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Chinese Trade War
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Re: RE: Re: Chinese Trade War
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Re: Chinese Trade War
Some takes on Trump's interim trade deal:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/14/busi ... iners.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/14/busi ... iners.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... utType=ampA year and a half into the trade war, China seems to have a winning strategy: Stay tough and let the Trump administration negotiate with itself.
Consistent with what I'd expect. Trump creates a looming crisis. Then he does something to avert the crisis. He acts like he really accomplished something but the situation is pretty much as it was before he started all his crap to begin with.President Trump's "phase one" trade deal with China is largely a victory for Beijing. Just measure the agreement signed this week against the initial demands made by Washington in a leaked May 2018 document.
As the Financial Times concludes, with regard to the central U.S. goals, "After almost two years of negotiations, tariffs and counter-tarriffs, Mr. Trump has achieved none of these objectives."
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Re: RE: Re: Chinese Trade War
The Chinese are addressing it - it won't be long before you'll be able to walk from Cairo, IL, to China on Chinese freighters.UNI88 wrote:The booming worldwide population is the 800 lb gorilla that no one wants to address.mainejeff2 wrote:The old way farming is not going to cut it with the rapid change of environmental factors, the loss of agri land and the booming worldwide population......yet our Federal Government keeps throwing gobs of money at it for political gain and votes.
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Re: Chinese Trade War
Not very long ago you whined and sniveled at length about the LFPR when the market was going up. Every. Single. Day.AZGrizFan wrote:Yeah. I hate it when the market goes up EVERY. SINGLE. DAY.mainejeff2 wrote:
Wall Street is shrugging this morning......must be already baked in.
Thanks Obama!
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Re: Chinese Trade War
Once again, I think you’ve mistaken me for someone else. But hey, what’s new?houndawg wrote:Not very long ago you whined and sniveled at length about the LFPR when the market was going up. Every. Single. Day.AZGrizFan wrote:
Yeah. I hate it when the market goes up EVERY. SINGLE. DAY.
Thanks Obama!
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Re: Chinese Trade War
Sorry. You people all look alikeAZGrizFan wrote:Once again, I think you’ve mistaken me for someone else. But hey, what’s new?houndawg wrote:
Not very long ago you whined and sniveled at length about the LFPR when the market was going up. Every. Single. Day.
Thanks Obama!
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Re: Chinese Trade War
"The unmasking thing was all created by Devin Nunes"
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Re: Chinese Trade War
Wouldn't this have been expected, given the amount of closures and restrictions we placed on business and manufacturing due to COVID?
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Re: Chinese Trade War
But it's Trump's fault that it is down. It's also Trump's fault that he didn't do enough and shut enough down.
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Re: Chinese Trade War
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Re: Chinese Trade War
The Chinese Virus has been great for China..
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Re: Chinese Trade War
The countries that are frequently touted as having had the best virus response did some things that had Trump done them, his opponents would have gone berzerk
And some of those things that countries like Thailand and New Zealand did (like blocking their own citizens from returning from abroad) would have likely been impossible to do in the US.
A total ban on incoming international flights and complete border closures would have been the only pathway to limiting the virus, given our internal, built in vulnerabilities to viral outbreaks.
So when you hear people blaming Trump for the virus numbers in the US, it is a falsehood cloaked in truth: Trump did not do enough of what he could not do.
He could have avoided being his usual Trump self though, by not minimizing and downplaying the issue- his critics are right about that
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Re: Chinese Trade War
Its the opposite here, more likely to be unable to get a crop into the fields due to excessive spring rainsSeattleGriz wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:38 amhoundawg wrote:
Me too mostly - I've noticed that some of the farmers around are a bit touchy about being called welfare queens though
How's the growing season in that area?
I ask because where I grew up, the Golden triangle, farmers were done by mid August at the latest. Where my wife's family farms, still in Montana, they some years can't even get crops off the fields due to weather.
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Re: Chinese Trade War
I think that, by the time everyone realized that there was a problem, a total travel ban would not have worked. Once it's in the most important thing is limiting it within.CID1990 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:58 amThe countries that are frequently touted as having had the best virus response did some things that had Trump done them, his opponents would have gone berzerkSDHornet wrote:
And Trumps fault that he didn't prevent the virus from leaving a Chinese lab.
And some of those things that countries like Thailand and New Zealand did (like blocking their own citizens from returning from abroad) would have likely been impossible to do in the US.
A total ban on incoming international flights and complete border closures would have been the only pathway to limiting the virus, given our internal, built in vulnerabilities to viral outbreaks.
So when you hear people blaming Trump for the virus numbers in the US, it is a falsehood cloaked in truth: Trump did not do enough of what he could not do.
He could have avoided being his usual Trump self though, by not minimizing and downplaying the issue- his critics are right about that
I also disagree with the idea that Trump, or I guess you could say our government if you don't want to blame Trump, could not have done things to limit the problem. As noted before the South Koreans anticipated the problem and quickly developed testing capability so that they could do contact tracing and identification of cases before the number of cases got too large to do that effectively. The United States may not have been able to do everything South Korea did but they could have pursued that general approach.
Instead, we had a President who insisted that the problem was solved because he did a travel restriction. Kept saying for about two months that everything was under control and there would be no issue. The stuff like it was 15 cases and soon it would be zero.
Then, after that, he created a system of conflicting messages. While his public health people were advising given behaviors he was undermining their advice.
Trump clearly, early on, thought that the travel restriction would solve the problem. He wasted about two months in that mode. Then for a few weeks he seemed on board with doing things necessary to limit the spread. Then he started compromising that effort.
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Re: Chinese Trade War
It worked in Thailand and New Zealand and Taiwan. The three countries that everybody points toJohnStOnge wrote:I think that, by the time everyone realized that there was a problem, a total travel ban would not have worked. Once it's in the most important thing is limiting it within.CID1990 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:58 am The countries that are frequently touted as having had the best virus response did some things that had Trump done them, his opponents would have gone berzerk
And some of those things that countries like Thailand and New Zealand did (like blocking their own citizens from returning from abroad) would have likely been impossible to do in the US.
A total ban on incoming international flights and complete border closures would have been the only pathway to limiting the virus, given our internal, built in vulnerabilities to viral outbreaks.
So when you hear people blaming Trump for the virus numbers in the US, it is a falsehood cloaked in truth: Trump did not do enough of what he could not do.
He could have avoided being his usual Trump self though, by not minimizing and downplaying the issue- his critics are right about that
I also disagree with the idea that Trump, or I guess you could say our government if you don't want to blame Trump, could not have done things to limit the problem. As noted before the South Koreans anticipated the problem and quickly developed testing capability so that they could do contact tracing and identification of cases before the number of cases got too large to do that effectively. The United States may not have been able to do everything South Korea did but they could have pursued that general approach.
Instead, we had a President who insisted that the problem was solved because he did a travel restriction. Kept saying for about two months that everything was under control and there would be no issue. The stuff like it was 15 cases and soon it would be zero.
Then, after that, he created a system of conflicting messages. While his public health people were advising given behaviors he was undermining their advice.
Trump clearly, early on, thought that the travel restriction would solve the problem. He wasted about two months in that mode. Then for a few weeks he seemed on board with doing things necessary to limit the spread. Then he started compromising that effort.
So your supposition in your first para doesn’t jibe with the evidence and your second para is a straw man
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Re: Chinese Trade War
The country I've seen pointed to the most is South Korea and South Korea did not rely primarily on travel restrictions. It relied on gearing up testing capacity and being prepared to do aggressive contact tracing. I tried looking up what Thailand, New Zealand, and Taiwan did. I found these articles:CID1990 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:35 pmIt worked in Thailand and New Zealand and Taiwan. The three countries that everybody points toJohnStOnge wrote:
I think that, by the time everyone realized that there was a problem, a total travel ban would not have worked. Once it's in the most important thing is limiting it within.
I also disagree with the idea that Trump, or I guess you could say our government if you don't want to blame Trump, could not have done things to limit the problem. As noted before the South Koreans anticipated the problem and quickly developed testing capability so that they could do contact tracing and identification of cases before the number of cases got too large to do that effectively. The United States may not have been able to do everything South Korea did but they could have pursued that general approach.
Instead, we had a President who insisted that the problem was solved because he did a travel restriction. Kept saying for about two months that everything was under control and there would be no issue. The stuff like it was 15 cases and soon it would be zero.
Then, after that, he created a system of conflicting messages. While his public health people were advising given behaviors he was undermining their advice.
Trump clearly, early on, thought that the travel restriction would solve the problem. He wasted about two months in that mode. Then for a few weeks he seemed on board with doing things necessary to limit the spread. Then he started compromising that effort.
So your supposition in your first para doesn’t jibe with the evidence and your second para is a straw man
Thailand: https://asiatimes.com/2020/05/thailands ... ess-story/
New Zealand: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2025203
Taiwan: https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/30/tai ... h-records/
I do not read the articles as suggesting that travel restrictions were a major factor in any of the three countries; though there is a reference to "border controls" in the New Zealand article. It looks to me like the major factors were associated with internal controls to impede community spread.
Also, I do not see the things that the three countries did as being things that could not have been done in the United States.
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Re: Chinese Trade War
They were pretty much the ONLY factors.JohnStOnge wrote:The country I've seen pointed to the most is South Korea and South Korea did not rely primarily on travel restrictions. It relied on gearing up testing capacity and being prepared to do aggressive contact tracing. I tried looking up what Thailand, New Zealand, and Taiwan did. I found these articles:
Thailand: https://asiatimes.com/2020/05/thailands ... ess-story/
New Zealand: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2025203
Taiwan: https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/30/tai ... h-records/
I do not read the articles as suggesting that travel restrictions were a major factor in any of the three countries; though there is a reference to "border controls" in the New Zealand article. It looks to me like the major factors were associated with internal controls to impede community spread.
Also, I do not see the things that the three countries did as being things that could not have been done in the United States.
Perhaps the actual details were inconvenient? All of those countries completely shut down international travel.
And if South Korea is what you mostly see people pointing to then I question what planet you are actually on
BTW I know exactly what these countries were doing because I saw the citizens services effects in each of them, as the are all East Asia-Pacific countries
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Re: Chinese Trade War
Dude, if you honestly think Taiwan and New Zealand didn't succeed largely on the strength of border controls then your head is in the sand. Both countries raised the drawbridges and haven't opened them since. It's okay to say Trump didn't handle this well (WSJ is doing a great long term research on what went wrong - insisting on our own tests, devised here in the US, and then failing to adequately develop one for several weeks, is at the forefront of the federal mistakes - forcing nursing homes to take in recovering Covid patients in places like New York and PA were examples of state mistakes) while at the same time recognizing that we couldn't always copy what worked well in much smaller, more isolated countries.JohnStOnge wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:10 pmThe country I've seen pointed to the most is South Korea and South Korea did not rely primarily on travel restrictions. It relied on gearing up testing capacity and being prepared to do aggressive contact tracing. I tried looking up what Thailand, New Zealand, and Taiwan did. I found these articles:
Thailand: https://asiatimes.com/2020/05/thailands ... ess-story/
New Zealand: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2025203
Taiwan: https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/30/tai ... h-records/
I do not read the articles as suggesting that travel restrictions were a major factor in any of the three countries; though there is a reference to "border controls" in the New Zealand article. It looks to me like the major factors were associated with internal controls to impede community spread.
Also, I do not see the things that the three countries did as being things that could not have been done in the United States.
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Re: Chinese Trade War
https://www.axios.com/trump-trade-war-c ... aEKROdMbkk
Trump's trade war on China was a failure in every possible way
Foreign direct investment to the U.S. fell 49% in 2020 — outpacing the overall global decrease of 42%.
Foreign direct investment to China rose 4% to $163 billion.
Last year, the U.S. trade deficit widened to its largest on record. In the fourth quarter, the U.S. goods trade deficit hit its highest share of GDP since 2012 and the U.S. current account deficit jumped to its highest level in more than 12 years in the third quarter.
China's trade surplus last year hit a record $535 billion, up 27% from 2019. Exports rose 21.1% in dollar terms in November year over year and 18.1% in December from a year earlier, touching an all-time high.
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Re: Chinese Trade War
It was never a short term play. But you do you.JohnStOnge wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:31 pm https://www.axios.com/trump-trade-war-c ... aEKROdMbkk
Trump's trade war on China was a failure in every possible wayForeign direct investment to the U.S. fell 49% in 2020 — outpacing the overall global decrease of 42%.Foreign direct investment to China rose 4% to $163 billion.Last year, the U.S. trade deficit widened to its largest on record. In the fourth quarter, the U.S. goods trade deficit hit its highest share of GDP since 2012 and the U.S. current account deficit jumped to its highest level in more than 12 years in the third quarter.China's trade surplus last year hit a record $535 billion, up 27% from 2019. Exports rose 21.1% in dollar terms in November year over year and 18.1% in December from a year earlier, touching an all-time high.
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Re: Chinese Trade War
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Re: Chinese Trade War
It doesn't matter whether it was short term or long term. It didn't work and it was never going to work.
Well, I believe that I must tell the truth
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Re: Chinese Trade War
Well, the Clinton BushBamaBiden plan of action sure as hell wasn't working, and is never going to work..JohnStOnge wrote: ↑Thu Feb 25, 2021 6:33 pmIt doesn't matter whether it was short term or long term. It didn't work and it was never going to work.
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